Do you agree with this statement?

flat-fifth
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Do you agree with this statement?

Postby flat-fifth » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:28 am

"Unless you are one of the few who have a knack for games, you should skip the hardest one. This
will leave you with about twelve minutes per game, instead of only nine."
- Master the LSAT with Software by Jeff Kolby

For some reason I'm having a hard time accepting this statement. I want to OWN this test, not run from it. Your thoughts?

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rinkrat19
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:31 am

That sounds like it's advice written for people aiming for a 155.

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ben4847
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby ben4847 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:32 am

176 here. That was the plan I used on all my PT's and averaged 171. (I happened to finish all 4 on real thing, hence my extra 5 points.)

Also, I never knew which was hardest, so I'd say to skip the one with the least questions. If you skip 5 and guess, you should get one of them, so you only lose 4.

dutchtrader
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby dutchtrader » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:32 am

Maybe you should consider waiting until the end to deal with the hardest scenario. I wouldn't skip it entirely though. That's 5-7 questions completely missed. I would only follow that advice if you were terrible at games, regardless of practice.

bracton
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby bracton » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:32 am

flat-fifth wrote: I want to OWN this test, not run from it. Your thoughts?


In that case, it seems that you have a "knack with games," and the statement is true as applied to you.

flat-fifth
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby flat-fifth » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:44 am

bracton wrote:
flat-fifth wrote: I want to OWN this test, not run from it. Your thoughts?


In that case, it seems that you have a "knack with games," and the statement is true as applied to you.


I have done enough LSAT prep to see a gaping hole in your analysis. PROGRESS :wink:

6lehderjets
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby 6lehderjets » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:02 am

flat-fifth wrote:"Unless you are one of the few who have a knack for games, you should skip the hardest one. This
will leave you with about twelve minutes per game, instead of only nine."
- Master the LSAT with Software by Jeff Kolby

For some reason I'm having a hard time accepting this statement. I want to OWN this test, not run from it. Your thoughts?




What did Kolby score on the LSAT?

ExcelBaller
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby ExcelBaller » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:08 am

Do what you want to do

Jante05
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby Jante05 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:38 am

This I can help with but not on RC ; ). Best advice is "do not skip." You should save the hardest set last. I went from getting half the LG questions wrong to only 1-2. Practice as much as you can until your answering them all correctly, once your confident then try to set time limits. Try to solve it yourself and not look for an explanation online, at least that's what helped me.

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Errzii
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby Errzii » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:43 am

Unless you can guarantee -6 or less for the other 3 sections combined skipping is a terrible ideal if your goal is > 170. If your goal however is somewhere in the 160s I can see this strategy having some merit but only when you're really struggling on games. You really shouldn't be though, games is one of the easiest sections to "learn" and is essentially free points once you get it.

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Mr.Binks
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby Mr.Binks » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:06 am

Errzii wrote:Unless you can guarantee -6 or less for the other 3 sections combined skipping is a terrible ideal if your goal is > 170. If your goal however is somewhere in the 160s I can see this strategy having some merit but only when you're really struggling on games. You really shouldn't be though, games is one of the easiest sections to "learn" and is essentially free points once you get it.


+1

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LexLeon
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby LexLeon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:32 am

Let's say you skip one 5 question game and guess all D's, as well as score perfectly on the other 3. You're likely to go -4 for the section. Not bad. If you go -2's on all of your other scored sections you could be looking at 99th percentile (much higher than 155).

If after intense study you're really still struggling with them, I'd suggest something like the above. However it is my opinion that you can, given a few essential elements, go -0 on a full section in 35 minutes.

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bgdddymtty
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby bgdddymtty » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:57 am

So, wait. Someone selling a product that purportedly allows its purchaser to "master" a standardized test helps his customers achieve said "mastery" by instructing them to deliberately skip several questions? And people still buy the product? Wonders never cease.

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ben4847
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby ben4847 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:33 am

LexLeon wrote:Let's say you skip one 5 question game and guess all D's, as well as score perfectly on the other 3. You're likely to go -4 for the section. Not bad. If you go -2's on all of your other scored sections you could be looking at 99th percentile (much higher than 155).

If after intense study you're really still struggling with them, I'd suggest something like the above. However it is my opinion that you can, given a few essential elements, go -0 on a full section in 35 minutes.


That is more or less what I did. I'm a bit surprised at all the surprise here. Unless you are consistently scoring better than -4 on LG, maybe you should try this and see if it ups your score.

tomwatts
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby tomwatts » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:53 pm

It's pretty common advice, though I like to phrase it a lot closer to what people actually mean when they say it.

First, build accuracy. Then build speed. If you have to slow down to doing 2 games in a 35 minute section in order to get over 90% right on the questions that you attempt. After you've managed that, increase your speed gradually until you can do 2.5 games in 35 minutes, then 3 games in 35 minutes, and so on. If, by test day, you're still not at the point where you can do all 4 games with the appropriate level of accuracy, that's not a disaster. People do very well not finishing the section, as long as they're very accurate at what they do.

This is what people are really saying when they say the above. Uh, bear in mind also that about 98% of people who take the LSAT score below a 170, so if you have a legitimate shot at a 170 or above, you're well outside the norm.

SanDiegoJake
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby SanDiegoJake » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:53 pm

ben4847 wrote:176 here. That was the plan I used on all my PT's and averaged 171. (I happened to finish all 4 on real thing, hence my extra 5 points.)

Also, I never knew which was hardest, so I'd say to skip the one with the least questions. If you skip 5 and guess, you should get one of them, so you only lose 4.


Skipping the one with the fewest questions is terrible advice. That may well be the easiest game in the section. What makes games harder are the following:

1) Relationships of elements to spaces: If you have 5 clowns getting out of a car in order, that's a 1-1 correspondence of elements to spaces. Easy. If you have 4 doctors, 4 nurses, and 4 benches, with 1 doc and 1 nurse on each bench - no doctor or nurse used more than once, that's a 2-1 correspondence. Easy. If you have 7 spaces for 5 elements, with certain of the elements used more than once (but you don't know which ones), it's harder. This relationship of elements to spaces is the single best measure of game difficulty.

2) Clues - Familiar and easy to symbolize = easy. Unfamiliar or difficult to symbolize = Harder

3) Elements - Single characteristics (5 clowns) = easy. Multiple characteristics (7 lizards; some male, some female; some green, some white) = Harder

4) Questions - Specific (ones that start with "if") = easy. Complex (rule substitution, maximum/minimum) = harder.

You should spend the first 2 minutes of the games section putting the games in your own order by skimming for the above. Then, do the games from easiest to hardest.

Lastly, skipping questions is good advice for people who are currently scoring below 70% on any section and looking to improve incrementally. If you do 3/4 of the questions, you can earn 3/4 of the points - which is a 165.

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ben4847
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby ben4847 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:56 pm

SanDiegoJake wrote:
ben4847 wrote:176 here. That was the plan I used on all my PT's and averaged 171. (I happened to finish all 4 on real thing, hence my extra 5 points.)

Also, I never knew which was hardest, so I'd say to skip the one with the least questions. If you skip 5 and guess, you should get one of them, so you only lose 4.


Skipping the one with the fewest questions is terrible advice. That may well be the easiest game in the section. What makes games harder are the following:

1) Relationships of elements to spaces: If you have 5 clowns getting out of a car in order, that's a 1-1 correspondence of elements to spaces. Easy. If you have 4 doctors, 4 nurses, and 4 benches, with 1 doc and 1 nurse on each bench - no doctor or nurse used more than once, that's a 2-1 correspondence. Easy. If you have 7 spaces for 5 elements, with certain of the elements used more than once (but you don't know which ones), it's harder. This relationship of elements to spaces is the single best measure of game difficulty.

2) Clues - Familiar and easy to symbolize = easy. Unfamiliar or difficult to symbolize = Harder

3) Elements - Single characteristics (5 clowns) = easy. Multiple characteristics (7 lizards; some male, some female; some green, some white) = Harder

4) Questions - Specific (ones that start with "if") = easy. Complex (rule substitution, maximum/minimum) = harder.

You should spend the first 2 minutes of the games section putting the games in your own order by skimming for the above. Then, do the games from easiest to hardest.

Lastly, skipping questions is good advice for people who are currently scoring below 70% on any section and looking to improve incrementally. If you do 3/4 of the questions, you can earn 3/4 of the points - which is a 165.


Yeah, I think the book also said to do that. But I figured I'd rather spend those 2 minutes answering questions. And hey, worked for me.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby yngblkgifted » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:59 pm

No because I am retarded when it comes to the games (or I started off that way) and I still did all of them, and it was beneficial to me in the end.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:32 pm

ben4847 wrote:
LexLeon wrote:Let's say you skip one 5 question game and guess all D's, as well as score perfectly on the other 3. You're likely to go -4 for the section. Not bad. If you go -2's on all of your other scored sections you could be looking at 99th percentile (much higher than 155).

If after intense study you're really still struggling with them, I'd suggest something like the above. However it is my opinion that you can, given a few essential elements, go -0 on a full section in 35 minutes.


That is more or less what I did. I'm a bit surprised at all the surprise here. Unless you are consistently scoring better than -4 on LG, maybe you should try this and see if it ups your score.


If you are consistently worse than -4 on games it is often because your games set-ups aren't very good. The key to the strategy you suggest is to get every question right on the three games you do finish. If the set-ups aren't rock solid that won't happen.

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ben4847
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Re: Do you agree with this statement?

Postby ben4847 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:55 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
ben4847 wrote:
LexLeon wrote:Let's say you skip one 5 question game and guess all D's, as well as score perfectly on the other 3. You're likely to go -4 for the section. Not bad. If you go -2's on all of your other scored sections you could be looking at 99th percentile (much higher than 155).

If after intense study you're really still struggling with them, I'd suggest something like the above. However it is my opinion that you can, given a few essential elements, go -0 on a full section in 35 minutes.


That is more or less what I did. I'm a bit surprised at all the surprise here. Unless you are consistently scoring better than -4 on LG, maybe you should try this and see if it ups your score.


If you are consistently worse than -4 on games it is often because your games set-ups aren't very good. The key to the strategy you suggest is to get every question right on the three games you do finish. If the set-ups aren't rock solid that won't happen.


I was doing it




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