LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

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Philosopher King
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LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby Philosopher King » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:21 pm

Has anyone taken both exams? I would like to know about the GRE because I'm thinking of pursuing a Ph.D. in philosophy and I would have to take it. I bombed the LSAT (!55) but does that mean I will bomb the GRE? Or is it different enough. Also, does the GRE matter as much as the LSAT or will I get some slight consideration due to high undergrad GPA?

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Cade McNown
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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby Cade McNown » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:25 pm

The GRE unfairly rewards those with strong verbal reasoning, quantitative reasoning, analytical writing and critical thinking skills. It is also biased in favor of those with bladder control.

silenttimer
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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby silenttimer » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:32 pm

Philosopher King wrote:Has anyone taken both exams? I would like to know about the GRE because I'm thinking of pursuing a Ph.D. in philosophy and I would have to take it. I bombed the LSAT (!55) but does that mean I will bomb the GRE? Or is it different enough. Also, does the GRE matter as much as the LSAT or will I get some slight consideration due to high undergrad GPA?


I thought the GRE was way easier than the LSAT. I spent a month studying for the LSAT and one week for the GRE and got pertty much the same percentile.

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Philosopher King
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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby Philosopher King » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:34 pm

silenttimer wrote:
Philosopher King wrote:Has anyone taken both exams? I would like to know about the GRE because I'm thinking of pursuing a Ph.D. in philosophy and I would have to take it. I bombed the LSAT (!55) but does that mean I will bomb the GRE? Or is it different enough. Also, does the GRE matter as much as the LSAT or will I get some slight consideration due to high undergrad GPA?


I thought the GRE was way easier than the LSAT. I spent a month studying for the LSAT and one week for the GRE and got pertty much the same percentile.


Thanks. What is the GRE like though? I looked up some sample questions but it seemed prohibitively hard. I only took one college-level math class and the professor was horrible (but I liked him--he would just get lots of problems wrong on the board and only realize like 5 minutes into it lol)! But it seems like there is lots of math on the exam. Is that true?

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grtbooks91
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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby grtbooks91 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:37 pm

Cade McNown wrote:The GRE unfairly rewards those with strong verbal reasoning, quantitative reasoning, analytical writing and critical thinking skills. It is also biased in favor of those with bladder control.


What is unfair about that? This is like saying that a math test 'unfairly' rewards those with strong skills in mathematics.

Philosopher King wrote: Thanks. What is the GRE like though? I looked up some sample questions but it seemed prohibitively hard. I only took one college-level math class and the professor was horrible (but I liked him--he would just get lots of problems wrong on the board and only realize like 5 minutes into it lol)! But it seems like there is lots of math on the exam. Is that true?


Also, I too was very seriously considering the Ph.D in philosophy and began studying for the GRE, and depending on what sort of department you're looking to head into, the math probably won't be as important, although since most applicants will have excellent verbal scores, the quantitative will sometimes be used to differentiate amongst similarly qualified applicants. That said, unless things changed radically with the recent test revisions, GRE Quant shouldn't test anything above college algebra and basic trigonometry.

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby DBishops » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:38 pm

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Philosopher King
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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby Philosopher King » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:39 pm

grtbooks91 wrote:
Cade McNown wrote:The GRE unfairly rewards those with strong verbal reasoning, quantitative reasoning, analytical writing and critical thinking skills. It is also biased in favor of those with bladder control.


What is unfair about that? This is like saying that a math test 'unfairly' rewards those with strong skills in mathematics.

Philosopher King wrote: Thanks. What is the GRE like though? I looked up some sample questions but it seemed prohibitively hard. I only took one college-level math class and the professor was horrible (but I liked him--he would just get lots of problems wrong on the board and only realize like 5 minutes into it lol)! But it seems like there is lots of math on the exam. Is that true?


Also, I too was very seriously considering the Ph.D in philosophy and began studying for the GRE, and depending on what sort of department you're looking to head into, the math probably won't be as important, although since most applicants will have excellent verbal scores, the quantitative will sometimes be used to differentiate amongst similarly qualified applicants. That said, unless things changed radically with the recent test revisions, GRE Quant shouldn't test anything above college algebra and basic trigonometry.


What are other sections like? I just don't know trigonometry as I have never learned it. I didn't learn as advanced math as most high school students do because I went to a special ed school. I did have a really good math teacher there though so I learned Algebra and Geometry very well.

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby pcwcecac » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:43 pm

GRE is computerized SAT.

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Cade McNown
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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby Cade McNown » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:43 pm

grtbooks91 wrote:What is unfair about that? This is like saying that a math test 'unfairly' rewards those with strong skills in mathematics.

--ImageRemoved--

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby Philosopher King » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:45 pm

pcwcecac wrote:GRE is computerized SAT.


Okay then what is the SAT like?

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby grtbooks91 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:45 pm

Philosopher King wrote:
grtbooks91 wrote:
Cade McNown wrote:The GRE unfairly rewards those with strong verbal reasoning, quantitative reasoning, analytical writing and critical thinking skills. It is also biased in favor of those with bladder control.


What is unfair about that? This is like saying that a math test 'unfairly' rewards those with strong skills in mathematics.

Philosopher King wrote: Thanks. What is the GRE like though? I looked up some sample questions but it seemed prohibitively hard. I only took one college-level math class and the professor was horrible (but I liked him--he would just get lots of problems wrong on the board and only realize like 5 minutes into it lol)! But it seems like there is lots of math on the exam. Is that true?


Also, I too was very seriously considering the Ph.D in philosophy and began studying for the GRE, and depending on what sort of department you're looking to head into, the math probably won't be as important, although since most applicants will have excellent verbal scores, the quantitative will sometimes be used to differentiate amongst similarly qualified applicants. That said, unless things changed radically with the recent test revisions, GRE Quant shouldn't test anything above college algebra and basic trigonometry.


What are other sections like? I just don't know trigonometry as I have never learned it. I didn't learn as advanced math as most high school students do because I went to a special ed school. I did have a really good math teacher there though so I learned Algebra and Geometry very well.


I'm not sure exactly, but I remember that the infamous rote vocab sections have been contextualized somewhat so that the point is to look at meanings of words and such in the context of sentences rather than in isolation. Do you have an undergraduate background in philosophy? If so, and you did well (which you will need to have to get into any Ph.D program worth going to) the whole verbal section really should be a cinch for you.

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:46 pm

I haven't taken the GRE but I helped a friend study for the math section. From my perspective it looked absurdly easy, since it only covered the math I took up through 9th grade, and I have a pretty good vocabulary from years of reading for pleasure.

Your mileage will undoubtedly vary.

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby DBishops » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:47 pm

Cade McNown wrote:
grtbooks91 wrote:What is unfair about that? This is like saying that a math test 'unfairly' rewards those with strong skills in mathematics.

--ImageRemoved--


+1

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby charliep » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:48 pm

as someone who has looked into this, the market for a philosophy professor is even worse than the market for lawyers

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grtbooks91
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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby grtbooks91 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:49 pm

charliep wrote:as someone who has looked into this, the market for a philosophy professor is even worse than the market for lawyers


+1

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Philosopher King
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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby Philosopher King » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:52 pm

grtbooks91 wrote:
charliep wrote:as someone who has looked into this, the market for a philosophy professor is even worse than the market for lawyers


+1


Thanks for that insight. I will research this more. My professor had to start in Kansas or something lol because you take a job where you can get it making about $60,000 if you're lucky. I would really like to be a District Manager so maybe pursuing that career is what I will do. I should try to score an interview for that.

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby pcwcecac » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:56 pm

Philosopher King wrote:
pcwcecac wrote:GRE is computerized SAT.


Okay then what is the SAT like?


The SAT has a verbal section (reading and vocab), writing section (unlike the LSAT, this counts), and a quantitative section. The GRE quantitative section requires a little bit of familiarity with some math concepts, but nothing complicated. It tests your knowledge rather than problem solving skills. I won't be able to give you a full list of topics the GRE quantitative section covers, but if you can spend an afternoon at a book store, take a look at any GRE prep book.

I think*, if you can find a good math tutor, you have nothing to worry about. If you can get a 155 on the LSAT, you can score very well on the GRE.

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MachineLemon
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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby MachineLemon » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:00 pm

Philosopher King wrote:Has anyone taken both exams? I would like to know about the GRE because I'm thinking of pursuing a Ph.D. in philosophy and I would have to take it. I bombed the LSAT (!55) but does that mean I will bomb the GRE? Or is it different enough. Also, does the GRE matter as much as the LSAT or will I get some slight consideration due to high undergrad GPA?


Yes, I have taken both, but I took the old GRE. It was easier than the LSAT, but my vocabulary is real big, so I did good. The biggest help to me was the computer software and vocab flash cards. I paid my science major friend (in beer) to help me review my mistakes on the math practice sections.

The new, free ETS prep software can be found here. (Edit: Software has full prep tests)

http://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/ ... powerprep2

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby mufcfan » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:13 pm

Philosopher King wrote:Has anyone taken both exams? I would like to know about the GRE because I'm thinking of pursuing a Ph.D. in philosophy and I would have to take it. I bombed the LSAT (!55) but does that mean I will bomb the GRE? Or is it different enough. Also, does the GRE matter as much as the LSAT or will I get some slight consideration due to high undergrad GPA?


I've taken both and, I think the GRE is easier than the LSAT. I just read that the new GRE does not penalize for incorrect answers, unlike the old one. That was my biggest concern when I took the old GRE.

One thing to remember is that the GRE is adaptive. From the ETS website:

'The Verbal Reasoning and Quantitative Reasoning measures are section-level adaptive. This means the computer selects the second operational section of a measure based on the performance on the first section.'

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby suspicious android » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:20 pm

charliep wrote:as someone who has looked into this, the market for a philosophy professor is even worse than the market for lawyers


True, but tragically understated. The market for philosophy professors is worse than humanities in general, which is worse than academia in general, which way, way worse than the market for lawyers.

Even with full funding, PhD programs in philosophy are mostly scams. If you're not going to a top 10 program, you're signing up for a lifetime of unemployability.

As fro the GRE, it's a pretty ridiculous vocabulary test, but as noted above, you can often get the meaning out of context. They ask you to understand very high level words, but only in a general way. In contrast, the LSAT asks you to understand medium level vocabulary, but in a very, very specific way.

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Philosopher King
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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby Philosopher King » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:35 pm

what about the market for political science professors? I could get a Ph.D. for Political science instead.

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby MachineLemon » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:04 pm

Philosopher King wrote:what about the market for political science professors? I could get a Ph.D. for Political science instead.


You'll be studying this subject for 5-7 years, it's not the kind of thing you should pick based on slightly better than disastrous job prospects. PhD programs have a 50% attrition rate. If you love philosophy and get into a great school (see placement in research positions), then pursue it. If not, don't go. If you're background in philosophy is not elite, consider a funded MA program (I believe GSU funds their MAs, they also do political phil if you're really interested), don't pay sticker.

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Postby VasaVasori » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:18 pm

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Re: LSAT v. GRE Who has some insight?

Postby tomwatts » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:29 pm

Philosopher King wrote:Thanks. What is the GRE like though? I looked up some sample questions but it seemed prohibitively hard. I only took one college-level math class and the professor was horrible (but I liked him--he would just get lots of problems wrong on the board and only realize like 5 minutes into it lol)! But it seems like there is lots of math on the exam. Is that true?

I've taken the current format of both (took the GRE in August). Just to collect the accurate information given previously into one post:

The current GRE (as of last August) has math, verbal, and essays. The essays are scored (unlike the LSAT essays), but they usually don't matter terribly much to schools as long as you don't do terribly. The essays are an analysis of an argument (sort of like what you do on LSAT LR, but not multiple-choice) and analysis of an issue (just a very general prompt on a very general subject).

The verbal bears some relation to the LSAT, but not much. You will find long passages and short passages (sort of like LSAT RC and LR), with some questions that remind you somewhat of LSAT questions. The style is different enough that it will not feel like the same sort of thing. The GRE verbal also has a bunch of vocabulary questions in a variety of formats, but they all revolve around plugging the right vocab word into blanks in a sentence. If you know a lot of vocabulary (i.e. you read a lot from childhood on), you'll be fine. Otherwise, these may be very hard.

The math is very, very basic math, but it can be tested in tricky ways. It covers arithmetic, basic algebra, and geometry (stuff that people usually finish early in high school). There is no trig. There is no calculus. However, the questions can be hard to follow, written in counterintuitive ways, etc.

It's computer-based and adaptive by section, both of which affect how you approach the test. It counts for a lot less in the admissions process than the LSAT does, but you still don't want to blow it entirely. Grad programs are generally a lot smaller than law schools (my girlfriend's grad program accepted 4 new students this year; my law school accepted 560), so admission is a lot more random. Job prospects are generally bad, though, just as with law school, which school you go to matters (less in grad school than in law school) and what you do when you're there matters a lot (the research in grad school, the grades in law school). Funded programs are the way to go, since if you can't get a relevant job after a funded program, at least you're not in horrible debt, and an irrelevant job will still keep you afloat.




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