In desperate need of advice

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franklyscarlet
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby franklyscarlet » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:26 pm

Rinkrat, my dear:

Image

OP: wait and retake. It'll be worth it.

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rinkrat19
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:31 pm

Rorassy wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:Someone who really thinks Touro is a good idea wouldn't be able to comprehend it. It has, like, multi-digit numbers and shit.


Try us. Explain how going to Northwestern full sticker is economically better than going to a tier 2 on scholarship while making $55k/year (+ raises) and working. You messed up.
You aren't exactly in a position of such impeccable credibility that you can insist I provide you with anything, and I'm certainly not going to bust out my spreadsheets but consider:
1. I'm maxed out in my current position. The only raises on the horizon (as in, 5-7 years until someone retires) will be COLA.
2. The local T2's night classes start an hour after I can physically get there. There is no possibility of adjusting my work hours.
3. I'd be limited to the extremly small local legal market instead of attending a school with more national reach.
4. I don't work in the legal field in any capacity, so I'd have a really hard time finding a legal job with no summer experience.
5. I would prefer not to end up in those very large grey or green bars on the right: --LinkRemoved--
6. TLS thinks you're an idiot: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=144292&view=viewpoll




And you are so right, scarlett. :P

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tyro
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby tyro » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:33 pm

Okay I read this thread earlier today and it did not say "deperate" in the title.

John1986
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:48 pm

I am back. Thank you all for your feedback, good and bad.

To clarify things.. I do not have a job lined up once I get out of LS. I do work as a legal assistant in a real-estate attorney's office but no one has offered me a job. I would have to quit my job to attend law school. I know it is easy to throw me in the pool of every other sub 150 LSAT tester (149) and tell me to find another career. I really want to be an attorney, I really do. I wish I could have scored like a lot of you did and I admire all of you that have done well on the LSAT.
I wish I could be in this forum talking about my acceptances to schools like NYU, but I can't. I don't think I am a troll, I am just confused and I just know that I have wanted and still want to practice law in NY. I understand it is a gamble and it is not like I wanted to be in this position.
My past has caught up with me in regards to my overall GPA. I did not know what I wanted to be when I was 18 and attended community college and basically never went. I transferred 27 credits after taking two years off to find myself. When I returned to college I did work really hard and graduated with a 3.57 (taking 93 credits). I know to many people that is not a big deal but to me it was.
I admit I wish I had done things differently and if I could turn around and take the LSAT soon..I would and there would not be this discussion. I do not fit the "mold" for a law school applicant who went to a prestigous school, studied hard and tested at a 160 the first time they opened a LSAT test. Like I said earlier, I wish I was, I wish I could be like a lot of you but right now, I cannot.
I do know that I want to be an attorney and I am willing to work very hard to accomplish that goal. I don't want to settle, I would love to go to a great school..I suppose I just have to figure things out..

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rinkrat19
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:56 pm

John1986 wrote:I am back. Thank you all for your feedback, good and bad.

To clarify things.. I do not have a job lined up once I get out of LS. I do work as a legal assistant in a real-estate attorney's office but no one has offered me a job. I would have to quit my job to attend law school. I know it is easy to throw me in the pool of every other sub 150 LSAT tester (149) and tell me to find another career. I really want to be an attorney, I really do. I wish I could have scored like a lot of you did and I admire all of you that have done well on the LSAT.
I wish I could be in this forum talking about my acceptances to schools like NYU, but I can't. I don't think I am a troll, I am just confused and I just know that I have wanted and still want to practice law in NY. I understand it is a gamble and it is not like I wanted to be in this position.
My past has caught up with me in regards to my overall GPA. I did not know what I wanted to be when I was 18 and attended community college and basically never went. I transferred 27 credits after taking two years off to find myself. When I returned to college I did work really hard and graduated with a 3.57 (taking 93 credits). I know to many people that is not a big deal but to me it was.
I admit I wish I had done things differently and if I could turn around and take the LSAT soon..I would and there would not be this discussion. I do not fit the "mold" for a law school applicant who went to a prestigous school, studied hard and tested at a 160 the first time they opened a LSAT test. Like I said earlier, I wish I was, I wish I could be like a lot of you but right now, I cannot.
I do know that I want to be an attorney and I am willing to work very hard to accomplish that goal. I don't want to settle, I would love to go to a great school..I suppose I just have to figure things out..
OP, we weren't calling you a troll. That was that other idiot.

If you really want to do this, do it right. Work on the anxiety, and in a couple of years, kill the LSAT. Be patient, and realize that time spent now in dealing with your testing issues can pay off HUGELY later on. A 3.0whatever is not that bad. People get into lower T14s with that GPA all the time. Certainly they get into respected regional T1 and T2s.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby franklyscarlet » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:57 pm

OP, it sounds like making a career as an attorney is very important to you.if this is the case, take the time to retake so that you can actually have this career. Dont think of it as time wasted- its time invested in yourself. The LSAT can be learned- don't think that just because you started poorly, you are not capable of doing well. Look at the study guides here (jammasterj just posted a great one) and make sure that by the time you're eligible, you're ready to kill the LSAT.


For the record- you're not the troll we were talking about. The troll is the one giving you very bad advice.

Paul Campos
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Paul Campos » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:58 pm

OP, I admire your passion and determination, but in addition to what other people have mentioned in this thread, keep in mind that getting a law degree will over-qualify you for certain jobs, such as the one you have now. This is a particularly perverse result of the attorney glut: people who formerly could have gotten jobs as legal assistants/paralegals now can't get them, because employers don't want to hire people with JDs for those positions.

If you're truly determined on this course of action, give yourself the time and space to get a much better LSAT score and to see what the legal employment market looks like two years from now.

John1986
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:02 pm

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

Does anyone have any feedback for a prep course? I am in NY (if that matters). As I said, the next test date I could sit for would be Feb 2013. I just want to jump back into studying now..but I don't know how I should time this out..haha I wish a prep course would let me be the Jarrod to their subway and try and help me turn my 149 into a 165.

Thanks all.
-John

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rinkrat19
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:06 pm

John1986 wrote:Thank you, I really appreciate that.

Does anyone have any feedback for a prep course? I am in NY (if that matters). As I said, the next test date I could sit for would be Feb 2013. I just want to jump back into studying now..but I don't know how I should time this out..haha I wish a prep course would let me be the Jarrod to their subway and try and help me turn my 149 into a 165.

Thanks all.
-John
There's a sticky thread at the top of the LSAT Prep forum with info on prep courses.

But dude, we are not kidding. Fix the anxiety first. Don't bother studying until that's sorted out, whether you just get some beta blockers or whatever.

John1986
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:07 pm

That will def. be the first thing I do. Thanks

Rorassy
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Rorassy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:08 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Rorassy wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:Someone who really thinks Touro is a good idea wouldn't be able to comprehend it. It has, like, multi-digit numbers and shit.


Try us. Explain how going to Northwestern full sticker is economically better than going to a tier 2 on scholarship while making $55k/year (+ raises) and working. You messed up.
You aren't exactly in a position of such impeccable credibility that you can insist I provide you with anything, and I'm certainly not going to bust out my spreadsheets but consider:
1. I'm maxed out in my current position. The only raises on the horizon (as in, 5-7 years until someone retires) will be COLA.
2. The local T2's night classes start an hour after I can physically get there. There is no possibility of adjusting my work hours.
3. I'd be limited to the extremly small local legal market instead of attending a school with more national reach.
4. I don't work in the legal field in any capacity, so I'd have a really hard time finding a legal job with no summer experience.
5. I would prefer not to end up in those very large grey or green bars on the right: --LinkRemoved--
6. TLS thinks you're an idiot: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=144292&view=viewpoll




And you are so right, scarlett. :P



The idea of "maxing out" at any career is ridiculous, and if you think you maxed out now wait til you see what happens after one or two years of biglaw (then it's not maxed out, it's pushed out). That is, if you get biglaw. The rest of the reasons are also fatuous but I don't feel like explaining why. If you haven't already quit your job (which would make absolutely no sense since you wouldn't be starting until next year) then reconsider.

There was a NY Times article about a NW grad having to move back home and sell DVDs.

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snailio
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby snailio » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:11 pm

OP if you are determined to follow through on this, like others have said, get the anxiety issue under control first, then consider a prep test company such as TestMasters, PowerScore etc. I don't see any reason you can't take some time here, it's not like you are missing out on a thriving economy passing you by. Slow down, take time, regroup and then try again.

GL

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franklyscarlet
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby franklyscarlet » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:18 pm

Rorassy wrote:

The idea of "maxing out" at any career is ridiculous, and if you think you maxed out now wait til you see what happens after one or two years of biglaw (then it's not maxed out, it's pushed out). That is, if you get biglaw. The rest of the reasons are also fatuous but I don't feel like explaining why. If you haven't already quit your job (which would make absolutely no sense since you wouldn't be starting until next year) then reconsider.

There was a NY Times article about a NW grad having to move back home and sell DVDs.


Ugh. You're the worst.

John1986
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:44 pm

Thanks again everybody. I really do appreciate it and I think I am going to sit out a cycle and try to get a score I can actually feel good about.

I will deal with the anxiety first. Second, I will have to figure out the best way to study for the next year..I have taken almost all practice tests in Next 10 and so on..I hope this doesn't hurt me too much. I think I will look into power score once I get my anxiety out of the way. I will also look at the jammasterj post..

It means a lot that you guys took the time to give me some feedback.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:47 pm

Change the spelling of DESPERATE in the OP.

bracton
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby bracton » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:40 pm

There's been a lot of good advice in this thread, apart from the one troll.

Something else for OP to think about: there is no rush to go to law school. I think Rinkrat said that she's in her 30's. So am I. Waiting two more years before going to law school is nothing, in the long run. You could wait longer and still fit right in.

Konner
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Konner » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:35 pm

Hey John,

Last week, I shared an anecdote on the waiting thread concerning a friend with PTSD. He PT'd in the 170s but received 149s across-the-board on test day, apparently because he couldn't sleep the night before. It was a grueling five year process between his first LSAT and the one that got him admitted to a T14 law school. He got help. He slept. His 5th and final score was a 176.

I'll note that the gap in his PT vs actual scores were astonishing. Scoring a 149 when you're PTing at 153 isn't unreasonable. Anything above that, yeah, I'd be looking at the test anxiety. Depending on your major and how the tests where typically structured/grades distributed, if you generally have done well on tests in the latter portion of your academic career, and this seems to be a fluke, I'd talk with someone. The LSAT isn't a perfect measure, so you could certainly be that guy who scored in the 50th percentile on the standardized test but rocked in law school and in practice. Who can say? But if law school and practice is your dream, then getting a handle on preparing for one very important day that you have limited ability to change will make a lot of difference.

By the way, if you have the money to burn, and you'd really like to pursue law school this fall, I would consider applying. That said, I'm not entirely sure if this would hurt your chances at reapplying to those same schools down the road should be denied this cycle.

Either way, I wish you the best.

John1986
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Re: In desperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:46 pm

Thank you! I actually did read that post. I am sure a good course would benefit me as well as getting some help with my anxiety. I am strongly thinking about getting into a power score course and taking a cycle off. I hope one day I could be on the other side helping someone in my position. Thank you all for your feedback.

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sunynp
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby sunynp » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:55 pm

OP: Good Luck!!

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Blessedassurance
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Blessedassurance » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:23 pm

Paul Campos wrote:OP, I admire your passion and determination, but in addition to what other people have mentioned in this thread, keep in mind that getting a law degree will over-qualify you for certain jobs, such as the one you have now. This is a particularly perverse result of the attorney glut: people who formerly could have gotten jobs as legal assistants/paralegals now can't get them, because employers don't want to hire people with JDs for those positions.

If you're truly determined on this course of action, give yourself the time and space to get a much better LSAT score and to see what the legal employment market looks like two years from now.


Unrelated, but can you give advise on the route to Legal Academia or (Academia in general) in the status quo? Assume HYSCCN. Any tips? Is working in BigLaw necessary if so, will one year suffice? Is an advanced degree a pre-requisite (Master's Phd etc)?

Thanks.

Paul Campos
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Paul Campos » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:36 pm

The classic route into legal academia was to finish near the top of your class at one of the half dozen big feeder schools, do a federal clerkship, and ideally a SCOTUS clerkship, work for two to five years at a top firm, and then go on the market for legal jobs.

This is changing somewhat. For higher level entry level jobs JD/PhDs, which used to be very much the exception, are becoming the rule (the majority of recent hires at top ten schools have PhDs as well as JDs, and this pattern is rippling downward toward lower-ranked schools). Big firm experience is becoming less important, and indeed a lot of people are getting hired with essentially no practice experience of any kind (not that being a Big Law associate for three years was ever much in the way of real practice experience). What has become far more important is publishing some scholarship other than a student law review note prior to getting a tenure track job. This used to be considered a plus as opposed to a necessity, but now it's becoming more of the latter than the former (hence the big upsurge in hiring people with advanced degrees in something other than law. Indeed most T-14s now have at least two or three faculty members who have PhDs but don't have JDs).

If you want to get a real academic job anywhere other than a law school then of course a PhD is a must.

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Eirhoff73
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Eirhoff73 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:02 am

I had a fantastic psychology instructor that taught the secrets of conditioning. I suggest that you take whatever medical plan that your employer gives you straight to the nearest psychologist. Tell him that you need to relax while taking this test. I would also ask your MD for a script of a good anti-anxiety medication as well. If you have ADHD, look into Concerta CR. It is awesome!

Above all, the one thing that you should take into the test with you is all of your success from the past. Its not the test that shapes you. You've already shaped yourself.

Good luck in 2013!

c3pO4
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby c3pO4 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:01 am

OP - you don't seem like a fool. As long as you realize NO school is worth going to with a 149, you will be fine. There is no reason why you shouldn't absolutely break your back studying for the LSAT and trying to get a good score. Surely you can do it. Just don't settle for what you have now, because regardless of how much you want to be a lawyer it is guaranteed not to happen. I really really want to be an NBA player but I never will. I probably WANT to be an NBA player a lot more than some of the lazy but talented athletes who are in the NBA. You want to be a lawyer, but you just can't with a 149. However, you are lucky that scoring well on the LSAT has much more to do with practice than how tall or athletic you are or another innate ability. Go for the retake. Keep doing it as long as your dream is alive. But dude do not go to law school with a 149---you will not be a lawyer and you will ruin your life.

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MTal
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby MTal » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:08 am

O.P.: GIVE UP. You are NOT cut out to be an attorney, both by your intellect AND your temperment.

American_in_China
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby American_in_China » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:35 am

Ok OP, first of all, MTAL is a dbag.

Second, you might very well become an excellent attorney, even with a bad LSAT score. THere are certainly many good attorneys that graduated outside the T1.

THe problem is, coming out of a bad school is like playing basketball with one arm behind your back. Except you're committing hundreds of thousands of dollars, 3 years, and a lot of other job opportunities to play the game. DO NOT DO THIS. Yeah, if you're Michael Jordan you might succeed anyways. But if you aren't, you're screwed.

So RETAKE. Do not tie one arm behind your back when you don't have to. Spend a year, or 6 months, or whatever, doing hardcore LSAT study. Get into at least a good regional school.




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