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kpxny
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Postby kpxny » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:01 am

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Last edited by kpxny on Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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jkpolk
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Re: Seeking wisdom --very quick question.

Postby jkpolk » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:21 am

Given your prior testing history and PT history, doesn't seem like this score is doomed. With your practice, etc. your "guesses" were probably better than shots in the dark, yeah? I think you leave it alone (unless you think the score will be significantly lower than your previous score) and hope you luck boxed. If you are dead set on reaching to Cornell, and you did poorly, WE and retake.

CCNhopeful
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Re: Seeking wisdom --very quick question.

Postby CCNhopeful » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:52 am

polkij333 wrote:Given your prior testing history and PT history, doesn't seem like this score is doomed. With your practice, etc. your "guesses" were probably better than shots in the dark, yeah? I think you leave it alone (unless you think the score will be significantly lower than your previous score) and hope you luck boxed. If you are dead set on reaching to Cornell, and you did poorly, WE and retake.


Retake may not be an option for OP unless he/she is willing to wait 2 years.

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Jeffort
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Re: Seeking wisdom --very quick question.

Postby Jeffort » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:10 am

CCNhopeful wrote:
polkij333 wrote:Given your prior testing history and PT history, doesn't seem like this score is doomed. With your practice, etc. your "guesses" were probably better than shots in the dark, yeah? I think you leave it alone (unless you think the score will be significantly lower than your previous score) and hope you luck boxed. If you are dead set on reaching to Cornell, and you did poorly, WE and retake.


Retake may not be an option for OP unless he/she is willing to wait 2 years.


Yeah, retaking is not an option without waiting 2 years unless OP has significant extenuating circumstances.

http://www.lsac.org/JD/LSAT/about-the-LSAT.asp

Limitations on Test Taking

You may not take the LSAT more than three times in any two-year period. This policy applies even if you cancel your score or if your score is not otherwise reported. LSAC reserves the right to cancel your registration, rescind your admission ticket, or take any other steps necessary to enforce this policy.

For significant extenuating circumstances, exceptions to this policy may be made by LSAC. To request an exception, submit a signed, detailed explanation addressing the circumstances that you feel make you eligible to retake the LSAT and specify the date that you wish to test. E-mail your request as an attachment to LSACinfo@LSAC.org or send it by fax to 215.968.1277.



OP, you are in a tight spot with your situation. Two cancellations in the same testing year gives admission committees the impression that you may not be able to handle the pressures of the fast paced law school environment and final exams.

Did you blind guess on 10+ questions or was it educated guesses after narrowing it down to two answer choices on some of those questions? You said you guessed on 10 or more and blind guessed (B) on an entire logic game. Is the logic game included in the 10+ or in addition to it? Those are relevant factors in trying to guestimate your score. If you blind guessed on say roughly 15 or more questions, statistically, unless you get really lucky with the credited answers pattern on those, you can conservatively bank on three points from those blind guesses.

Going with the hypothetical scenario that you blind guessed (with the same letter choice) on 15 questions and get three correct from those, that puts you at minus 12 before considering the amount of, if any, questions that you attempted and answered incorrectly. If you answered every question you attempted correctly (unlikely since you had to rush, blind guess on many and didn't have time to attempt an entire logic game), you are in good shape and above 164.

However, from the info you provided it appears that this test did not go as well for you as the October administration where you only guessed on 2-3 questions, which does not bode well for having achieved a higher score this time. If we go with the assumption that you definitely missed 15 due to blind/rushed guessing, that already caps your highest possible score around a 168 only if you were perfect on the rest of the questions.

If you can clear up some of the uncertainty in your numerical descriptions with more details really soon (by noon) I or other experts on the board will probably offer more information/advice before the cancellation deadline. There is no clear-cut decision in your situation since you are caught in a bind of sorts.

I posted these links in another thread, but they are relevant to your situation so here they are again, hopefully you'll log on and read this stuff before making your decision:

http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/how-do- ... #more-3152
http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/should- ... sat-score/ (applies to all administrations, not just the Feb 2011)

I don't envy your position and wish I could give you a more comforting and definitive answer. Good luck making your decision and I hope the best for you.

kpxny
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Postby kpxny » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:09 am

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Last edited by kpxny on Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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pupshaw
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Re: Seeking wisdom --very quick question.

Postby pupshaw » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:56 pm

I dunno, If you're PTing in the low 170s, then it seems like your October test is a pretty extreme outlier as far as wrong answers on non-guesses. If you felt good about the rest of the test, and if we assume you get at least 1 or 2 of the guesses right, conservatively, it seems like the chances are pretty good that you did better than -20 or so, which is probably in the neighborhood of 165.

I say keep it--schools only care about your higher score anyway, and the multiple cancellations might be more of a red flag, as Jeffort said.

Good luck!

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Jeffort
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Re: Seeking wisdom --very quick question.

Postby Jeffort » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:58 pm

kpxny wrote:Hello everyone. Thanks so much for all your input thus far.

The LG I missed was part of the 10~12 questions that I blind-guessed on in the entire test.

Would it be horrible to have something like a 158, as worst case scenario, along with my 164?

Thanks again for your kind help.


Yes, a 158ish range score as your most recent after a 164 would look worse than a second cancellation. Those two scores are worlds apart in the percentile rankings: 75th percentile vs. 90th percentile. It would cast doubt on the 164 being representative of your true ability level and possibly give the impression that you got lucky with blind guess answers or in some way in October since you went significantly down rather than up on your third attempt.

Two cancellations on record with a 90th percentile score is hands down better than one cancel, a 90th percentile score followed up next administration by a roughly 75th percentile or otherwise much lower than 90th% score.

The median LSAT score of admitted students at Cornell Fall 2010 is 168 (96th percentile).

If you think it is likely that you scored below 160/significantly below 164 you should cancel. Anybody that tells you otherwise by saying it will not matter because most schools just take your highest score doesn't know what they are talking about regarding the complexities of the admissions process. Schools are only required to REPORT the highest score of admitted applicants to the ABA and for ranking purposes but admission committees still see your entire LSAT record and consider all scores/everything on the CAS report when making decisions no matter what their stated policy is about averaging.

If you think you most likely scored around/near 164 (hopefully above), then do not cancel. You have some soul searching to do for the rest of today before the deadline. Good luck. Maybe go to the gym or jog/walk around for a while to get some exercise and undistracted time to think about it.

Since it is December and the climate has gone into winter mode with much colder temps it's possible and believable that you were ill/under the weather on test day. If that is the case you could submit a short three or so sentence addendum to somewhat ameliorate the negative impact of canceling the Dec score if you go with that option.

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pupshaw
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Re: Seeking wisdom --very quick question.

Postby pupshaw » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:15 pm

Jeffort wrote:
kpxny wrote:Hello everyone. Thanks so much for all your input thus far.

The LG I missed was part of the 10~12 questions that I blind-guessed on in the entire test.

Would it be horrible to have something like a 158, as worst case scenario, along with my 164?

Thanks again for your kind help.


Yes, a 158ish range score as your most recent after a 164 would look worse than a second cancellation. Those two scores are worlds apart in the percentile rankings: 75th percentile vs. 90th percentile. It would cast doubt on the 164 being representative of your true ability level and possibly give the impression that you got lucky with blind guess answers or in some way in October since you went significantly down rather than up on your third attempt.

Two cancellations on record with a 90th percentile score is hands down better than one cancel, a 90th percentile score followed up next administration by a roughly 75th percentile or otherwise much lower than 90th% score.

The median LSAT score of admitted students at Cornell Fall 2010 is 168 (96th percentile).

If you think it is likely that you scored below 160/significantly below 164 you should cancel. Anybody that tells you otherwise by saying it will not matter because most schools just take your highest score doesn't know what they are talking about regarding the complexities of the admissions process. Schools are only required to REPORT the highest score of admitted applicants to the ABA and for ranking purposes but admission committees still see your entire LSAT record and consider all scores/everything on the CAS report when making decisions no matter what their stated policy is about averaging.

If you think you most likely scored around/near 164 (hopefully above), then do not cancel. You have some soul searching to do for the rest of today before the deadline. Good luck. Maybe go to the gym or jog/walk around for a while to get some exercise and undistracted time to think about it.

Since it is December and the climate has gone into winter mode with much colder temps it's possible and believable that you were ill/under the weather on test day. If that is the case you could submit a short three or so sentence addendum to somewhat ameliorate the negative impact of canceling the Dec score if you go with that option.


Agreed, and I didn't mean to suggest that something like a 158 wouldn't matter, only that from the information you provided, it seemed unlikely you'd be that much lower than your previous score.

charliep
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Re: Seeking wisdom --very quick question.

Postby charliep » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:22 pm

if you're like me and think you bomb every test you take, then ride it out. I thought i did horribly on the october test, but, in actuality, only scored 2 points below my PT average.

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Jeffort
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Re: Seeking wisdom about cancelling LSAT score.

Postby Jeffort » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:36 pm

I wasn't directing that at you cerealdan. You posted while I was composing and revising my post. My cat interrupted me, wanted attention, and jumped on the keyboard to check her catmail!
I didn't see your post until after I pressed submit.

I was just trying to be comprehensive, especially since today is deadline day and many people are agonizing about which final decision to go with.

Hopefully others will see and read this thread today rather than starting another 'should I cancel' one so we can stop Image with repetition.

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willwash
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Re: Seeking wisdom --very quick question.

Postby willwash » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:32 pm

Don't cancel. Just sounds like a case of post test jitters

kpxny
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Postby kpxny » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:03 pm

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Last edited by kpxny on Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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willwash
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Re: Seeking wisdom --very quick question.

Postby willwash » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:57 pm

kpxny wrote:Thanks again everyone. I'm literally changing my mind every hour. But I think I've decided to stick with the score for now.

I'll just live with it, and maybe it'll turn out to be better than expected.

Plus, I would guess an addendum explaining two cancellations would be as helpful for explaining a bad performance after a pretty solid score.

Thanks again, and I'm sorry for the repetitiveness of this post if it bothered anyone!

EDIT: Haha. I don't think it's post-test jitters at all. I've never had to blindly guess on the PTs... Had to guess for like 10 on the actual test!
But I felt good about the first two LG's and the last LG minus the last 2 questions I guessed, so maybe it wouldn't turn out so bad. RCs were a bit harder too though.


You know, I think I'm going to start doing the 4th LG in a section first, because too many times now I've seen the 3rd game be a killer, and the last game is really easy, as if to reward the smart people who got through it or went aroudn it.

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RareBreed
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Re: Seeking wisdom --very quick question.

Postby RareBreed » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:28 am

If you really are PTing in the 170s, the probability that you scored below 160 is slim to none. That shouldn't happen.




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