Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Ihatemylife
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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:54 pm

Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby Ihatemylife » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:15 pm

Here's a little snippet of my frustrating experiences:

I have taken dozens of timed PTs and averaged a 176. Three times I have hit 180. I cold tested a 172 and my all time low is a 170.

With this in mind, I was super cocky going into October's LSAT. I felt I aced both the reading comprehension (all 10 or so of my last PTs -0 in RC) and the logic games, but I was outraged that I had left six questions blank on the LRs combined. In my demented state of mind I declared this wasn't good enough for my high aspirations (Columbia/NYU). Granted, I thought the test would be on a ten point curve and I was worried of a worst-case scenario of a 172. Thus, I made the worst decision of my life - I canceled. When I found out the curve was 13 I was devastated.

Fast forward to this past test. Through the first four sections I seem to be doing ok. My guess is 2-4 off combined on the LRs and probably 3 off on the games (guessed on two due to time, but felt good about everything else). So worst case a -7 going into my best section, which I have never got more than 2 wrong in 30+ tests. The moment of truth: I guess on eight and don't feel particularly happy with two or so other answers. Eight. I am still sick. I don't know what happened - it has never happened.

Short story: What do I do? I most likely have a mid to high 160s, which is lower than I have ever tested and lower even than I cold tested. I really want to cancel this score out of sheer embarrassment, but how do schools look at two cancellations? Keep in mind I only really have an interest in NYU/Columbia.

I'm like Lebron in the playoffs. Anyone else in a similar boat/looking at multiple cancellations? When should I retake?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the lengthy post - I am a bit flustered.

soscurred
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:02 pm

Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby soscurred » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:20 pm

Just as an aside, you're probably going to get some flak for the tone of your posting. I made a similar thread - with similar tone - a couple years ago, and I still regret it. Your problems are not the end of the world, most people would love to be in your shoes. You are causing yourself undue stress by beating yourself up.

As to your question, you're smart enough to figure the answer out. If your ONLY aspiration is Columbia/NYU, then you need to weigh whether or not your expected high 160's (likely low 70s) score offers you a reasonable chance of acceptance. Your prediction of the curve should play a minimal role in your decision; it's already burned you once. If you think the score is good enough to make you competitive, there's no reason to cancel it. You can always take it again to improve the score...but if this score is competitive, you may not even need to. Your score may even be good enough to net you an early acceptance. If you cancel, you'll have to wait for February/March for your app to be reviewed - by then, a significant amount of slots will have been taken.

On the other hand, if you feel like this score CANNOT make the NYU/Columbia cut, and those are the ONLY two you're interested in, then technically you should cancel. I don't pretend to know how admission councils operate, but I know I would have raised eyebrows for two consecutively cancelled scores. That said, it'd be 'mathematically' better if you showed two cancels and one high score than showing a score that would normally result in rejection. But that leaves you with another important question - who is to say that February will get any better (if not worse)?

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dietcoke0
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby dietcoke0 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:36 pm

Probably suicide is the only option. If you don't, any university will shoot you dead upon a second cancel.

DallasTxGuy
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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:26 pm

Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby DallasTxGuy » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:38 pm

I am in the same boat as you are man! I do not know what to do. I am trying to to figure out whether or not to cancel my score for the second time or just say the hell with it. But I KNOW i did not perform my best. This is how my argument has been going so far in my brain for the past few hours: Assuming Law schools are only worried about ranking, then I think the hell with it. I might as well see my score. I doubt they care if you took the exam more then once as long as they can report a good score and keep their rank. On the other hand, even if it does raises some eyebrows I am sure they will take a 176 any day before they take a 160s low 170s. But, then the other side of my brain is saying WHAT IF IM WRONG!!! should I cancel it? I understand exactly what you are going through. 170 or 178 is a major difference

Ihatemylife wrote:Here's a little snippet of my frustrating experiences:

I have taken dozens of timed PTs and averaged a 176. Three times I have hit 180. I cold tested a 172 and my all time low is a 170.

With this in mind, I was super cocky going into October's LSAT. I felt I aced both the reading comprehension (all 10 or so of my last PTs -0 in RC) and the logic games, but I was outraged that I had left six questions blank on the LRs combined. In my demented state of mind I declared this wasn't good enough for my high aspirations (Columbia/NYU). Granted, I thought the test would be on a ten point curve and I was worried of a worst-case scenario of a 172. Thus, I made the worst decision of my life - I canceled. When I found out the curve was 13 I was devastated.

Fast forward to this past test. Through the first four sections I seem to be doing ok. My guess is 2-4 off combined on the LRs and probably 3 off on the games (guessed on two due to time, but felt good about everything else). So worst case a -7 going into my best section, which I have never got more than 2 wrong in 30+ tests. The moment of truth: I guess on eight and don't feel particularly happy with two or so other answers. Eight. I am still sick. I don't know what happened - it has never happened.

Short story: What do I do? I most likely have a mid to high 160s, which is lower than I have ever tested and lower even than I cold tested. I really want to cancel this score out of sheer embarrassment, but how do schools look at two cancellations? Keep in mind I only really have an interest in NYU/Columbia.

I'm like Lebron in the playoffs. Anyone else in a similar boat/looking at multiple cancellations? When should I retake?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the lengthy post - I am a bit flustered.

dba415
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:50 pm

Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby dba415 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:45 pm

If you don't think your score is good enough to get accepted, cancel it. You only want to attend 2 schools so a low score will do you know benefit for attending law school.

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noleknight16
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby noleknight16 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:47 pm

If he cancels, he only has 1 test left. Eff that. Suck up your score and prepare for Feb

lats19nys
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby lats19nys » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:57 pm

From everything I've read, canceling more than once is usually taken as a negative. It's like this, law schools generally are willing to overlook one bad score/cancellation. That is why they encourage people to write an addendum for noticeable increases in scores. They understand that people can and do have bad days. But when it slips to two cancels, that is when law schools realize, frankly with good reason, that it is more than simply having a bad day. Frankly, do you think it is possible that you are not as capable as you judge yourself to be? Most people do in fact do worse on test day than during practice no matter how realistic they believe their practice to be. I would take a real good look at your actual abilities and then make a decision after that. But frankly, two cancellations would definitely raise some eyebrows at the very least.
edit
I'm sorry if they came off as harsh, but I want to speak honestly and you also come off as extremely arrogant. (at least in your posting)

DallasTxGuy
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby DallasTxGuy » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:06 pm

i have been reading some stuff on another website and found out the policies that most major schools have about taking multiple lsats and apparently their policies are if you have multiple scores, they will average them out. (these are the major schools that.) so i came to the conclusion that i will end up canceling my lsat that way they will have nothing to average them with lol

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QuincyWagstaff
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby QuincyWagstaff » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:18 pm

Ihatemylife wrote:Here's a little snippet of my frustrating experiences:

I have taken dozens of timed PTs and averaged a 176. Three times I have hit 180. I cold tested a 172 and my all time low is a 170.

With this in mind, I was super cocky going into October's LSAT. I felt I aced both the reading comprehension (all 10 or so of my last PTs -0 in RC) and the logic games, but I was outraged that I had left six questions blank on the LRs combined. In my demented state of mind I declared this wasn't good enough for my high aspirations (Columbia/NYU). Granted, I thought the test would be on a ten point curve and I was worried of a worst-case scenario of a 172. Thus, I made the worst decision of my life - I canceled. When I found out the curve was 13 I was devastated.

Fast forward to this past test. Through the first four sections I seem to be doing ok. My guess is 2-4 off combined on the LRs and probably 3 off on the games (guessed on two due to time, but felt good about everything else). So worst case a -7 going into my best section, which I have never got more than 2 wrong in 30+ tests. The moment of truth: I guess on eight and don't feel particularly happy with two or so other answers. Eight. I am still sick. I don't know what happened - it has never happened.

Short story: What do I do? I most likely have a mid to high 160s, which is lower than I have ever tested and lower even than I cold tested. I really want to cancel this score out of sheer embarrassment, but how do schools look at two cancellations? Keep in mind I only really have an interest in NYU/Columbia.

I'm like Lebron in the playoffs. Anyone else in a similar boat/looking at multiple cancellations? When should I retake?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the lengthy post - I am a bit flustered.

Something doesn't add up. How could you be hitting 180 on multiple practice tests, but then run out of time and guess multiple times on the real test? I never hit a 180, only did a handful of PTs, but finished every section with extra time on test day I ended up in the 170s. However, I never cheated on my practice tests, so I knew where I stood.

Ihatemylife
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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby Ihatemylife » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:26 pm

First off, I appreciate the negative responses from a few of you. My apologies for sounding arrogant. I posted this just after finishing up the test and admittedly I didn't have much of a filter between my emotions and my writing.

Furthermore, to those of you who are insinuating there is a rather suspicious disparity between my PT performance and regular test performance, I understand where you are coming from. I would remind you, however, I performed well on my October Test, especially considering the curve. Had I not canceled then, I don't think this thread would exist. As for the December Test, my results are bizarre. I have never had a problem with RC and I finished RC in October with 7 minutes to look over my work. For whatever reason, I completely lost track of the time and I dwelled far too long on the third passage. I wish I had an explanation for my actions but I do not. One thing I can say for certain is that I do not "cheat" on my PTs, as one of you so rudely implied.

Anyway, thank you for the responses. Right now I am leaning towards canceling because I feel like I can improve in February, hopefully on par with how I performed in October (only this time I won't cancel!). I guess I am just worried over how much schools will discount the score due to three consecutive LSAT attempts and two cancellations. Also, I would still very much appreciate any insight and experience from you all. Thanks and congratulations to those of you who did well!

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noleknight16
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby noleknight16 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:30 pm

Ihatemylife wrote:First off, I appreciate the negative responses from a few of you. My apologies for sounding arrogant. I posted this just after finishing up the test and admittedly I didn't have much of a filter between my emotions and my writing.

Furthermore, to those of you who are insinuating there is a rather suspicious disparity between my PT performance and regular test performance, I understand where you are coming from. I would remind you, however, I performed well on my October Test, especially considering the curve. Had I not canceled then, I don't think this thread would exist. As for the December Test, my results are bizarre. I have never had a problem with RC and I finished RC in October with 7 minutes to look over my work. For whatever reason, I completely lost track of the time and I dwelled far too long on the third passage. I wish I had an explanation for my actions but I do not. One thing I can say for certain is that I do not "cheat" on my PTs, as one of you so rudely implied.

Anyway, thank you for the responses. Right now I am leaning towards canceling because I feel like I can improve in February, hopefully on par with how I performed in October (only this time I won't cancel!). I guess I am just worried over how much schools will discount the score due to three consecutive LSAT attempts and two cancellations. Also, I would still very much appreciate any insight and experience from you all. Thanks and congratulations to those of you who did well!


If I read correctly, this is your 2nd time taking it? 1st time is canceled right? If you cancel again, this 3rd test will be the only score you get.

Keep your score for December but prep for February. You'll thank me later.

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SA1928
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby SA1928 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:41 pm

Ihatemylife wrote:Here's a little snippet of my frustrating experiences:

I have taken dozens of timed PTs and averaged a 176. Three times I have hit 180. I cold tested a 172 and my all time low is a 170.

With this in mind, I was super cocky going into October's LSAT. I felt I aced both the reading comprehension (all 10 or so of my last PTs -0 in RC) and the logic games, but I was outraged that I had left six questions blank on the LRs combined. In my demented state of mind I declared this wasn't good enough for my high aspirations (Columbia/NYU). Granted, I thought the test would be on a ten point curve and I was worried of a worst-case scenario of a 172. Thus, I made the worst decision of my life - I canceled. When I found out the curve was 13 I was devastated.

Fast forward to this past test. Through the first four sections I seem to be doing ok. My guess is 2-4 off combined on the LRs and probably 3 off on the games (guessed on two due to time, but felt good about everything else). So worst case a -7 going into my best section, which I have never got more than 2 wrong in 30+ tests. The moment of truth: I guess on eight and don't feel particularly happy with two or so other answers. Eight. I am still sick. I don't know what happened - it has never happened.

Short story: What do I do? I most likely have a mid to high 160s, which is lower than I have ever tested and lower even than I cold tested. I really want to cancel this score out of sheer embarrassment, but how do schools look at two cancellations? Keep in mind I only really have an interest in NYU/Columbia.

I'm like Lebron in the playoffs. Anyone else in a similar boat/looking at multiple cancellations? When should I retake?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the lengthy post - I am a bit flustered.


Do you feel like you will do better if you take the test again? I think you need to look back at your experience today and in October and think about what was different between when you take the actual test and when you take your PTs. If you have really bad anxiety or nerves while taking the test, consider whether or not you think you will be able to overcome them on a re-take. The trouble with NYU and Columbia is that both of those schools do average, whereas many other schools do not. Personally, I also ended up guessing on about 8 questions on the RC section and am more than likely going to cancel, although like you, am feeling pretty good about the LR and LG sections. I believe I can perform better so I am going to hit the books again and prepare for June. I'd suggest taking the next day or two and thinking carefully about how you think you might do in the future. I mean really, if you did end up with like -3 LR, -4LG and only like -5 RC, you could do pretty well.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:44 pm

two cancels, with neither under strange circumstances looks bad. Wait a few days at least, but I think a cancel would be the wrong call here

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goldenflash19
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby goldenflash19 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:13 pm

You have to take into account your GPA. If you're above the 75th, it would be a lot tougher to cancel knowing that you have a high 160s/low 170s. I have no clue how two cancels would look, but if you're looking at a 4.0/170 into NYU, I would imagine you would have fighting odds. Check LSN to see how people w/ ur GPA fared with different scores.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby Elston Gunn » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:31 pm

DallasTxGuy wrote:i have been reading some stuff on another website and found out the policies that most major schools have about taking multiple lsats and apparently their policies are if you have multiple scores, they will average them out. (these are the major schools that.) so i came to the conclusion that i will end up canceling my lsat that way they will have nothing to average them with lol


This is really really wrong. They may say they average, but their practice does not bear it out. Look at LSN--neither NYU or Columbia will care that you have a low(ish) score if you have a high one to go with it. Two cancels would looks MUCH WORSE than cancel/168/175 or whatever.

AP-375
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby AP-375 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:34 pm

Yo man, I may be the only one on here who is posting with some anecdotal experience.
I was a super LSAT anxiety guy. Awesome PTs, crash and burn on test day.
Cancelled twice. Took the test a third time and it was my worst score ever, worse than all PTs.
Petitioned to take it a 4th time (easy to do), did, and scored much higher, in a range I was decently happy with.
Result: All of my my admissions/rejections/WLs were exactly as predicted by LSP. No noticeable damage.
My opinion: law schools could care less how many times you take it. They only care about your highest score because that is what they report to USNWR.
Dont' settle.

Ihatemylife
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby Ihatemylife » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:43 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:two cancels, with neither under strange circumstances looks bad. Wait a few days at least, but I think a cancel would be the wrong call here


Yea, this is my worry. I risk sounding like an arrogant douche - especially when talking about a hypothetical 0 but I truly believe I canceled some score in the 172-175 range back in October. And like I said, I was doing well on December's test up until literally the last fifteen minutes when my brain decided to give out and I tanked the end of the section. Obviously, going back in a time machine to avoid cancellation would be my best option, but I have a strong feeling I can perform at least in the low 170s in February.

Especially considering Columbia and NYU average LSATs my dilemma seems to be this:

Take what I figure to be high 160s on this test (166-69) and then retake in February...best case I'm probably averaging no more than a 171

OR

Take a risk and cancel December and shoot for mid 170s in February.

-------------------------

I might add my GPA isn't anything spectacular: a 3.72 from a top ten university in a weak major. So I don't think 3.7/170-72 is going to cut it, which is why I succumbed to irrational anxiety and canceled in October.

I am assuming - one again, sorry for the inane hypothetical - a 174 and two cancellations looks better than a 170-171 averaged between two tests with one cancellation. Of course I could be entirely wrong and maybe law schools discount scores far more with multiple cancellations.

Not too thrilled about either of these scenarios. Oh well.

Edit: Elston Gunn seems to suggest option one is better since they don't average. Ahhhhh! so many different opinions! Seriously though, thank you for all of your input and honesty - it is helpful.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby Elston Gunn » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:49 pm

Ihatemylife wrote:Edit: Elston Gunn seems to suggest option one is better since they don't average. Ahhhhh! so many different opinions! Seriously though, thank you for all of your input and honesty - it is helpful.


Poke around Law School Numbers yourself--find the multiple LSATers. See that almost none of them fared worse than if they only had the high line LSAT. Become convinced. Learn to live with your 167. Retake.

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willwash
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Re: Should I cancel December/how do schools view two cancella...

Postby willwash » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:01 am

Don't cancel. Worst case scenario, if it comes back bad, call NYU and Columbia and tell them to hold your app so you can retake in Feb. Or else, it will come back good and you won't have to retake.




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