How to someone with a 180

AriGoldButNicer
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How to someone with a 180

Postby AriGoldButNicer » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:49 pm

I've been doing some LSAT tutoring to supplement my new wardrobe, and one of my students is getting a 180 (though he did start at a 165, most of this is because of his work ethic rather than my mediocore tutoring, which I hate doing except with him).

I post because this is better than I ever got on even a practice test. I told him he's now better at it than me, and may be better on his own. He said he likes having someone to discuss the test with so my q is: how can I teach someone who is already consistently 100 percent accurate? There's no tips on here for sustaining a 180 once you have it.

I am also used to helping people in the 130s-I never had someone start at a 165 before so I've been overwhelmed from the get go.

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law4vus
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby law4vus » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:49 pm

Enjoy the free money and just do your best to keep him motivated. Nothing else you can do.

kaiser
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby kaiser » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:52 pm

You will find that the higher the average score, the more neurotic and self-questioning the kid will be. Might as well just keep him positive and motivated (as if he actually needs your reassurance).

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20130312
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby 20130312 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:54 pm

Just make sure he doesn't accidentally the whole thing.

AriGoldButNicer
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby AriGoldButNicer » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:32 pm

He has questionable social skills, and I see him always yelling at other people, but he is a great guy-very reliable, trust worthy and seems to have just enough morality. I just hope I don't mess him up. I never had a student understand the tricks I used when I took the test, and he made them all better than I did.

I think I'll just time him now, and watch him. I don't want to waste recent tests though as his self study is now more valuable now meeting me, though my penn state jokes are def worth the dough.

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suspicious android
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby suspicious android » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:36 pm

kaiser wrote:You will find that the higher the average score, the more neurotic and self-questioning the kid will be. Might as well just keep him positive and motivated (as if he actually needs your reassurance).


So true

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paratactical
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby paratactical » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:40 am

InGoodFaith wrote:Just make sure he doesn't accidentally the whole thing.

YOU. I like you.

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birdlaw117
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby birdlaw117 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:44 am

InGoodFaith wrote:Just make sure he doesn't accidentally the whole thing.

:lol:

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vanwinkle
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:09 am

paratactical wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Just make sure he doesn't accidentally the whole thing.

YOU. I like you.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:10 am

My joke has already been taken, so I'll use this spot to TEBOW TEBOW TEBOW TEBOW.

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20130312
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby 20130312 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:20 am

vanwinkle wrote:
paratactical wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Just make sure he doesn't accidentally the whole thing.

YOU. I like you.


I was hoping someone would appreciate that :lol:

seanPtheB
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby seanPtheB » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:48 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:Just make sure he doesn't accidentally the whole thing.


I lol'd

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the_pakalypse
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby the_pakalypse » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:51 pm

seanPtheB wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Just make sure he doesn't accidentally the whole thing.


I lol'd

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Jeffort
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby Jeffort » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:55 pm

Talk about bubbling strategies.

Is it better to go with single question by question bubbling or group/cluster bubbling? Which strategy is more time efficient and which one is more/less susceptible to making mistakes? Weigh the pros and cons of the two bubbling styles.

You must calculate how much time per question it takes to single bubble since using that strategy requires you to look away from the test book after each question, find the correct column and row on the answer sheet, fill in the proper oval for the selected answer choice and then look back at the test book to attack the next question.

Single bubbling is perhaps slightly more time consuming than group/cluster bubbling, perhaps 1 to 3 seconds per question depending on the test-room desk space available for arrangement of the test-book, answer sheet, pencils and eraser.

If taking the test in a facility with big wide desks/generous counter space of the type in law school classrooms where there is plenty of space to arrange things side by side, have the test book fully open at the fold for two page viewing, then single bubbling should take no more than one second per question since you don't have to shuffle anything around.

If taking the test on a small desktop where there is not enough room to have the test book center fold open and the answer sheet next to it, then it may take 2-3 seconds to bubble each answer.

If stuck in a room with those little flip up from the side of the chair desks that are about 10 by 14 inches, taking the test and bubbling is going to be a nightmare, especially when your pencils roll off the desk onto the floor and start rolling downhill under the seats in front of you.

Of course all of this also depends on the agility and dexterity of the test-taker.

Significant benefits of single bubbling includes accuracy, plus seconds between questions for a brief mental break to reset brain before attacking the next question.

Group/cluster bubbling can be more time efficient since you can bubble up to eight answers in one spree in LR and RC and up to 14 questions in LG from the same two page fold of the section. Time per bubble doing it in clusters can be cut down to as little as 0.5 seconds per oval, giving extra time for solving the last question or two you attempt in each section and/or time for you to mark in guess answers if not able to finish and/or to change an answer before time is called.

However, the time saving benefit of group/cluster bubbling comes at a price and has significant risks that may outweigh the advantages depending on the circumstances. The desk space in the test center is an important factor that should be taken into consideration on test day. If the desk is small and you have to shuffle things around/cannot have the test book fully centerfold open with the answer sheet next to it, cluster bubbling will be less efficient, although it would still be a viable strategy doing one page at a time clusters if that is possible without much shuffling.

A big risk of cluster bubbling is misbubbling/misgridding a cluster of answers if you are off by a row on the answer sheet during one bubble spree. Another big risk is time being called before you have filled in the last cluster for the section.

Anyway, maybe talk to your student about this stuff for some $hits and giggles to keep him calm and happy for the next two weeks. Fun conversation and laughing is always a good enjoyable stress reliever.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:49 pm

AriGoldButNicer wrote:He has questionable social skills, and I see him always yelling at other people, but he is a great guy-very reliable, trust worthy and seems to have just enough morality.


Please elaborate.

AriGoldButNicer
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby AriGoldButNicer » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:16 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
AriGoldButNicer wrote:He has questionable social skills, and I see him always yelling at other people, but he is a great guy-very reliable, trust worthy and seems to have just enough morality.


Please elaborate.

I get the impression that even though he'll talk about how certain people are useless and should be fired/don't deserve their lives, he still cares deep down. I think he has a lot of anger, but there seems to be compassion deep down in his subconscious. It's an intuition. I mean he has a lot of anger, but is very honest. I just think his strengths and weaknesses play well in what I perceive this field to be.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:23 pm

The thing is, even when you are at that level, there is wisdom to be had from ppl with experience and close to as high of a score. So although he's better than you at the LSAT, you can still motivate, teach strategy (test strategy, rather than question strategy), help him locate his weaknesses etc.

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paratactical
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby paratactical » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:31 pm

I think this is good advice:
Jeffort wrote:Talk about bubbling strategies.

Is it better to go with single question by question bubbling or group/cluster bubbling? Which strategy is more time efficient and which one is more/less susceptible to making mistakes? Weigh the pros and cons of the two bubbling styles.

You must calculate how much time per question it takes to single bubble since using that strategy requires you to look away from the test book after each question, find the correct column and row on the answer sheet, fill in the proper oval for the selected answer choice and then look back at the test book to attack the next question.

Single bubbling is perhaps slightly more time consuming than group/cluster bubbling, perhaps 1 to 3 seconds per question depending on the test-room desk space available for arrangement of the test-book, answer sheet, pencils and eraser.

If taking the test in a facility with big wide desks/generous counter space of the type in law school classrooms where there is plenty of space to arrange things side by side, have the test book fully open at the fold for two page viewing, then single bubbling should take no more than one second per question since you don't have to shuffle anything around.

If taking the test on a small desktop where there is not enough room to have the test book center fold open and the answer sheet next to it, then it may take 2-3 seconds to bubble each answer.

If stuck in a room with those little flip up from the side of the chair desks that are about 10 by 14 inches, taking the test and bubbling is going to be a nightmare, especially when your pencils roll off the desk onto the floor and start rolling downhill under the seats in front of you.

Of course all of this also depends on the agility and dexterity of the test-taker.

Significant benefits of single bubbling includes accuracy, plus seconds between questions for a brief mental break to reset brain before attacking the next question.

Group/cluster bubbling can be more time efficient since you can bubble up to eight answers in one spree in LR and RC and up to 14 questions in LG from the same two page fold of the section. Time per bubble doing it in clusters can be cut down to as little as 0.5 seconds per oval, giving extra time for solving the last question or two you attempt in each section and/or time for you to mark in guess answers if not able to finish and/or to change an answer before time is called.

However, the time saving benefit of group/cluster bubbling comes at a price and has significant risks that may outweigh the advantages depending on the circumstances. The desk space in the test center is an important factor that should be taken into consideration on test day. If the desk is small and you have to shuffle things around/cannot have the test book fully centerfold open with the answer sheet next to it, cluster bubbling will be less efficient, although it would still be a viable strategy doing one page at a time clusters if that is possible without much shuffling.

A big risk of cluster bubbling is misbubbling/misgridding a cluster of answers if you are off by a row on the answer sheet during one bubble spree. Another big risk is time being called before you have filled in the last cluster for the section.

Anyway, maybe talk to your student about this stuff for some $hits and giggles to keep him calm and happy for the next two weeks. Fun conversation and laughing is always a good enjoyable stress reliever.

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Jeffort
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Re: How to someone with a 180

Postby Jeffort » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:05 pm

AriGoldButNicer wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
AriGoldButNicer wrote:He has questionable social skills, and I see him always yelling at other people, but he is a great guy-very reliable, trust worthy and seems to have just enough morality.


Please elaborate.

I get the impression that even though he'll talk about how certain people are useless and should be fired/don't deserve their lives, he still cares deep down. I think he has a lot of anger, but there seems to be compassion deep down in his subconscious. It's an intuition. I mean he has a lot of anger, but is very honest. I just think his strengths and weaknesses play well in what I perceive this field to be.


Even the worst of the worst tyrants, genocidal maniacs, serial killers/mass murderers, psychopaths, sociopaths, etc. in known history have had small compartmentalized bits of compassion buried deep down underneath the evil and rage that was the driving force of the majority of their behavior. They all had friends, people and pets they treated well, cared about and possibly loved at times as well.

The having a lot of anger towards others thing, saying people don't deserve their lives, plus limited social skills (anti-social behavior/not wanting to interact with others/be friendly or civil) plus being smart enough to be able to get 180s on the LSAT is not a good sign. That combination of traits satisfies the DSM diagnostic criteria for several serious psychiatric/personality disorders that indicate the person could be very dangerous to others.

I'm just going by the facts you supplied and my education, knowledge and experiences, this is not a medical diagnosis, just words of caution. If your perceptions as you have described them are accurate, that he's in no need of additional LSAT help, expresses a lot of anger, hates other people and thinks they don't deserve their lives, doesn't want to associate with them, wants you to come over more and is willing to pay you to just show up and sit there for a while, I say DO NOT GO BACK, DANGER ZONE! since the set of traits/behaviors together qualify as being warning signs.

Being stressed out/frustrated by the LSAT in the last two weeks before the test is normal, but what you described, especially with him getting 180 scores, is not normal.




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