Odd... didn't Harvard's numbers go up? Also, were these schools picked randomly or were they just a few of the most egregious drops in each of the "bands"?

I couldn't find Harvard's medians, but their 25th/75th LSAT stayed the same. Their 25th GPA stayed the same and their 75th GPA increased from 3.96 to 3.97.

I chose these schools because the data for them were readily available; I couldn't find the data for the number of applicants for the other schools. Therefore, I'm not entirely sure if these data are representative, or, by coincidence, I chose schools with the most egregious drops.

I've said this elsewhere on this forum, but I'll say it again. I think the schools are now more lenient toward retakers. That's how they keep the numbers the same. Before, the top schools turned up their noses at kids with multiple scores on their file. Now they don't. You won't see this in the numbers, however.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/jd/apply/the-application-process/jdfaq.html#retake

Harvard still claims they use the average.

Anecdotal. I'm personally seeing just the opposite this cycle. I'm out at two to four schools despite my numbers.


Iowa WL
Arizona WL or Reject
Tulane WL or Reject
Wake Forest WL or Reject


Take it for what it's worth.

Yup. That's what I'm guessing. Although I am kind of just guessing about this. I haven't gotten word back from Wake, Tulane, or Arizona. Although Arizona might as well have just told me to f off from what I can tell by their status checker (decision letter sent, requirements not changed, despite changing for many others).

Wake and Tulane have just completely ignored me. Still at complete for Tulane. Since 11/9. It's been fun begging just to go under review.


My C&F is bad, although it is all traffic and nothing to do with alcohol. My undergrad is TTT. I've accomplished relatively nothing. Maybe my PS sucked, but I thought it was well written and explained why I wanted to be a lawyer well enough. I don't know.

I have two numbers, a GPA and an LSAT, I was hoping that would be all they looked at. Guess the stench of mediocrity overpowered them.

Maybe my LORs were bad, although I'm close to both professors.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/jd/apply/the-application-process/jdfaq.html#retake

Harvard still claims they use the average.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/retaking-the-lsat.html

Here is a link that shows the schools that still average. I don't think they'll be able to do that anymore because of the smaller applicant pools, if they want to keep their medians.

Wake and Tulane have just completely ignored me. Still at complete for Tulane. Since 11/9. It's been fun begging just to go under review.

My C&F is bad, although it is all traffic and nothing to do with alcohol. My undergrad is TTT. I've accomplished relatively nothing. Maybe my PS sucked, but I thought it was well written and explained why I wanted to be a lawyer well enough. I don't know.

I have two numbers, a GPA and an LSAT, I was hoping that would be all they looked at. Guess the stench of mediocrity overpowered them.

Maybe my LORs were bad, although I'm close to both professors.

Somehow I think Harvard will be okay given the quality of applicants they've rejected in the past.

Yup. That's what I'm guessing. Although I am kind of just guessing about this. I haven't gotten word back from Wake, Tulane, or Arizona. Although Arizona might as well have just told me to f off from what I can tell by their status checker (decision letter sent, requirements not changed, despite changing for many others).

Wake and Tulane have just completely ignored me. Still at complete for Tulane. Since 11/9. It's been fun begging just to go under review.


My C&F is bad, although it is all traffic and nothing to do with alcohol. My undergrad is TTT. I've accomplished relatively nothing. Maybe my PS sucked, but I thought it was well written and explained why I wanted to be a lawyer well enough. I don't know.

I have two numbers, a GPA and an LSAT, I was hoping that would be all they looked at. Guess the stench of mediocrity overpowered them.

Maybe my LORs were bad, although I'm close to both professors.

How bad can the traffic stuff be w/o alcohol being involved? Reckless driving? Road rage? Just a ton of tickets?

There are plenty of traffic related violations/crimes not involving alcohol that don't fit into the minor traffic offense category which can result in a misdemeanor or felony conviction.

Law schools don't care about or require you to disclose things regarding a couple of speeding tickets or citations for not stopping completely at a stop sign or before making a right turn, fix it tickets, or other things on that level.

Since it appears to be traffic offenses (s)he is required to disclose in applications for C&F purposes, they have to be more serious than typical tickets/infractions you can clear up easily by just paying a fine and/or going to traffic school.

There are plenty of traffic related violations/crimes not involving alcohol that don't fit into the minor traffic offense category which can result in a misdemeanor or felony conviction.

Law schools don't care about or require you to disclose things regarding a couple of speeding tickets or citations for not stopping completely at a stop sign or before making a right turn, fix it tickets, or other things on that level.

Since it appears to be traffic offenses (s)he is required to disclose in applications for C&F purposes, they have to be more serious than typical tickets/infractions you can clear up easily by just paying a fine and/or going to traffic school.

3+ is a bit too patterned to ignore

8 tickets in 5 years of driving. One driving with a suspended license, although I was a minor. It's a pattern of bad driving, but not moral flaw. I'm a bad driver. I know I'm a bad driver. I would tend to drive and lose track of the speed. End up getting pulled over for speeding and I never wore my seatbelt so it would be two tickets at the same time. Every time.

The one driving with a suspended license was not intended to break the law. I'm not a bad person, damnit. I'm a good person. But law schools don't seem to care.

8 tickets in 5 years of driving. One driving with a suspended license, although I was a minor. It's a pattern of bad driving, but not moral flaw. I'm a bad driver. I know I'm a bad driver. I would tend to drive and lose track of the speed. End up getting pulled over for speeding and I never wore my seatbelt so it would be two tickets at the same time. Every time.

The one driving with a suspended license was not intended to break the law. I'm not a bad person, damnit. I'm a good person. But law schools don't seem to care.

I don't think they care about whether you are a 'good person' -- I think it's more along the lines of 'shouldn't he have learned some sort of lesson after getting 4 tickets about the same few things?' If it doesn't seem like you have any regard for the law, despite getting penalized for breaking it multiple times, that might leave a bad taste in the mouths of some adcomms.

But again, it's not a judgement of whether you're good or bad--it's an insight into how much you care about following the law the next time you get behind the wheel.

I feel like if current driving laws and enforcement were in place just 20 years ago, a good chunk of lawyers, law school adcomms, and the like would be a little more empathetic.

But whatever. Follow the law. I know. Too bad 18 year old me didn't. That's what I get for being young and stupid. A lifetime of feeling unfulfilled.

Yes. Traffic courses, remedial courses, and a clean driving record ever since.


I don't know if my personal statement is good or bad. I thought it was good. It might suck though. I worked on it a lot, had it proofread a lot, and was very specific about why I want to be a lawyer. Same thing for LORs. They might be good. They might be bad. I don't know frankly. I'm close with the professors, but who knows what they said? I'll probably do it all over again next year or the year after that. So at least I learned a lot about what not to do with this cycle. Idk though. Something doesn't feel right.