How do LSAT percentiles work?

Mauve Dinosaur
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How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby Mauve Dinosaur » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:25 pm

I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:26 pm

Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?

TLS is unrepresentative.

lsatcrazy
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby lsatcrazy » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:27 pm

Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?


it's a bell curve if I'm not mistaken, so the number of people getting 120 is equal to the number of people getting 180's - very few. Most people fall somewhere around the middle.

gthopeful
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby gthopeful » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:29 pm

i second what jam master said...the majority of people who are on tls gain a lot of help from this site whether it be study tips or anything else in general so many of them are more prepared than people who may not be on this site so the people on tls tend to have higher collective scores than most

Mal Reynolds
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:30 pm

I don't know what you mean by LSAT "writers." Do you mean LSAT test takers?

If you got a 169 I'm sure you can understand that TLS is not an accurate sample of LSAT test takers. People who score higher are much more likely to post on this site. Nothing is inflated there are lots of people who score at 150 or below on this test, namely to the tune of around 50% of the total testing population.

Scooped.

Mauve Dinosaur
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby Mauve Dinosaur » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:31 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?

TLS is unrepresentative.


True, and I realized that as soon as I hit send. Still though, I have a hard time believing anyone capable of graduating from university can score below 140.
Last edited by Mauve Dinosaur on Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

splitster1221
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby splitster1221 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:32 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:I don't know what you mean by LSAT "writers." Do you mean LSAT test takers?

If you got a 169 I'm sure you can understand that TLS is not an accurate sample of LSAT test takers. People who score higher are much more likely to post on this site. Nothing is inflated there are lots of people who score at 150 or below on this test, namely to the tune of around 50% of the total testing population.

Scooped.


nice save on the "LSAT" edit

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JamMasterJ
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:34 pm

Mauve Dinosaur wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?

TLS is unrepresentative.


True. Still though, I have a hard time believing anyone capable of graduating from university can score below 140.

ok. I know plenty of intelligent people that could never break 155. Without studying (which is the case for many low scores) 130-140 seems about right

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rinkrat19
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:35 pm

The TLS population leans heavily toward the upper end of the bell curve. It's called TOP-Law-Schools.com for a reason. Most TLSers are not taking the test cold (not knowing/caring that there's anything you can do to study for it), and are not just aiming for a 151 to get into "any law school".

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bk1
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby bk1 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:36 pm

Lots of people don't study or study minimally.

Mal Reynolds wrote:I don't know what you mean by LSAT "writers." Do you mean LSAT test takers?


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/write

HTH

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JamMasterJ
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:37 pm

bk1 wrote:Lots of people don't study or study minimally.

Mal Reynolds wrote:I don't know what you mean by LSAT "writers." Do you mean LSAT test takers?


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/write

HTH

lolCanada

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rinkrat19
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:38 pm

Mauve Dinosaur wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?

TLS is unrepresentative.


True, and I realized that as soon as I hit send. Still though, I have a hard time believing anyone capable of graduating from university can score below 140.
I'm pretty sure my cat could score a 140. While drunk.

That said, I think my cat is probably smarter than the median liberal arts school grad.

(English and Canadians "write exams" instead of "taking tests.")

Yes, half of LSAT takers really do score below 151. Frightening, isn't it?

Mal Reynolds
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:42 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:lolCanada


I'm from 'Merrica. I don't have to be sensitive to other uses of the English language.

Mauve Dinosaur
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby Mauve Dinosaur » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:51 pm

I find it funny that there's a lot of Canadian expressions that Americans find unfamiliar, but there isn't a single American expression that Canadians don't already understand and use regularly.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:52 pm

Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I find it funny that there's a lot of Canadian expressions that Americans find unfamiliar, but there isn't a single American expression that Canadians don't already understand and use regularly.

u jelly?

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rinkrat19
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:55 pm

Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I find it funny that there's a lot of Canadian expressions that Americans find unfamiliar, but there isn't a single American expression that Canadians don't already understand and use regularly.
We don't get a lot of Canadian TV down here.

(I spend enough time in Canada and know enough Canadians that I'm pretty fluent in Canuckistanian.)

Mauve Dinosaur
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby Mauve Dinosaur » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:06 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I find it funny that there's a lot of Canadian expressions that Americans find unfamiliar, but there isn't a single American expression that Canadians don't already understand and use regularly.
We don't get a lot of Canadian TV down here.

(I spend enough time in Canada and know enough Canadians that I'm pretty fluent in Canuckistanian.)


No Trailer Park Boys?! I feel sorry for you.

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suspicious android
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby suspicious android » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:00 am

I've taught plenty of people scoring in the 130-140's, even a few 127'ers. The ones below 140 or so are people who just don't read very well. Never read for pleasure, probably never read or wrote an English sentence except for requirements for school. These people can be smart (usually not), but written tests DESTROY them.

I think a lot of people in the bottom 10 percent end up kind of giving up and not trying through large portions of the test. Think about the number of people who leave during the middle of the test, this is usually not uncommon at all, probably accounting for 1-2%. Also there's a lot of people who don't bother to do any prep or even learn the basic parameters of the test, so end up not guessing on all the questions. So they get 20-25 questions right, good for a 135 or so.

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omninode
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby omninode » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:40 am

I have a friend who, in my opinion, is very intelligent, and might even make a good lawyer. Unfortunately, he is a slow reader. I don't know why, he just is. Undiagnosed dyslexia, perhaps? Anyway, he got through undergrad with good grades (3.5+ GPA) because speed reading was never really required there. When he has unlimited time to read and understand things, he does great. On the LSAT, he practiced for months, took a full training course, etc. and was happy to get a 154. That's just how it goes sometimes.

However, I suspect most people who score around the median or below just did little or no preparation, thinking it would be easy or not caring.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:49 am

Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?

People I've known that have taken the LSAT and their end results

Subject 1- A not very intelligent but cocky male who didn't need to study for the LSAT, ended up going to Liberty, now works as a paralegal
Subject 2- A very intelligent male, who decided to get blacked out the night before his LSAT / ended up arriving to the test center with puke on him / horrible hangover. Currently in a lower ranked TTTT (forget which one)
Subject 3 - A pretty ditsy female, 149... not in law school
Subject 4- A pretty ditsy male, 142... not in law school
Subject 5- A very hard working, but not naturally smart female who has studied insanely for the LSAT , 157... not in law school
Subject 6 - A male who is one of my close friends who is probably of similar intelligence to me, didn't believe you could study for a standardized test "bombed it horribly" (don't know his score)... not in law school
Subject 7 - A cocky male, aspirations of Duke, "can't study for standardized test" "bombed it horribly"... not n LS

The only semi- successes I guess:
Subject 8- Pretty intelligent guy, just took a couple PT's... currently in WF
Subject 9- Pretty intelligent guy, actually studied really hard too, was shocked he got a 159... currently in Tulane

THIS group is probably more representative of those taking the LSAT (you see their end results). I received a 167 and all of those above treat me like a god... meanwhile I'm slightly embarrassed about my score on TLS, but if you lump me in as subject 10 I'd score the best out of this group of 10 LSAT test takers..

HBK
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby HBK » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:02 am

ThreeRivers wrote:
Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?

People I've known that have taken the LSAT and their end results

Subject 1- A not very intelligent but cocky male who didn't need to study for the LSAT, ended up going to Liberty, now works as a paralegal
Subject 2- A very intelligent male, who decided to get blacked out the night before his LSAT / ended up arriving to the test center with puke on him / horrible hangover. Currently in a lower ranked TTTT (forget which one)
Subject 3 - A pretty ditsy female, 149... not in law school
Subject 4- A pretty ditsy male, 142... not in law school
Subject 5- A very hard working, but not naturally smart female who has studied insanely for the LSAT , 157... not in law school
Subject 6 - A male who is one of my close friends who is probably of similar intelligence to me, didn't believe you could study for a standardized test "bombed it horribly" (don't know his score)... not in law school
Subject 7 - A cocky male, aspirations of Duke, "can't study for standardized test" "bombed it horribly"... not n LS

The only semi- successes I guess:
Subject 8- Pretty intelligent guy, just took a couple PT's... currently in WF
Subject 9- Pretty intelligent guy, actually studied really hard too, was shocked he got a 159... currently in Tulane

THIS group is probably more representative of those taking the LSAT (you see their end results). I received a 167 and all of those above treat me like a god... meanwhile I'm slightly embarrassed about my score on TLS, but if you lump me in as subject 10 I'd score the best out of this group of 10 LSAT test takers..


Most of the people in my testing center did not seem like they knew about the LSAT. For example, they didn't understand what the experimental section was, how many LRs and LGs and RCs there were supposed to be, etc.

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omninode
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby omninode » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:06 am

HBK wrote:
ThreeRivers wrote:
Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?

People I've known that have taken the LSAT and their end results

Subject 1- A not very intelligent but cocky male who didn't need to study for the LSAT, ended up going to Liberty, now works as a paralegal
Subject 2- A very intelligent male, who decided to get blacked out the night before his LSAT / ended up arriving to the test center with puke on him / horrible hangover. Currently in a lower ranked TTTT (forget which one)
Subject 3 - A pretty ditsy female, 149... not in law school
Subject 4- A pretty ditsy male, 142... not in law school
Subject 5- A very hard working, but not naturally smart female who has studied insanely for the LSAT , 157... not in law school
Subject 6 - A male who is one of my close friends who is probably of similar intelligence to me, didn't believe you could study for a standardized test "bombed it horribly" (don't know his score)... not in law school
Subject 7 - A cocky male, aspirations of Duke, "can't study for standardized test" "bombed it horribly"... not n LS

The only semi- successes I guess:
Subject 8- Pretty intelligent guy, just took a couple PT's... currently in WF
Subject 9- Pretty intelligent guy, actually studied really hard too, was shocked he got a 159... currently in Tulane

THIS group is probably more representative of those taking the LSAT (you see their end results). I received a 167 and all of those above treat me like a god... meanwhile I'm slightly embarrassed about my score on TLS, but if you lump me in as subject 10 I'd score the best out of this group of 10 LSAT test takers..


Most of the people in my testing center did not seem like they knew about the LSAT. For example, they didn't understand what the experimental section was, how many LRs and LGs and RCs there were supposed to be, etc.


It amazes me that somebody would spend money to register for a test and do absolutely no research or preparation. It's a sick sad world. They get what they deserve.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:10 am

HBK wrote:
ThreeRivers wrote:
Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?

People I've known that have taken the LSAT and their end results

Subject 1- A not very intelligent but cocky male who didn't need to study for the LSAT, ended up going to Liberty, now works as a paralegal
Subject 2- A very intelligent male, who decided to get blacked out the night before his LSAT / ended up arriving to the test center with puke on him / horrible hangover. Currently in a lower ranked TTTT (forget which one)
Subject 3 - A pretty ditsy female, 149... not in law school
Subject 4- A pretty ditsy male, 142... not in law school
Subject 5- A very hard working, but not naturally smart female who has studied insanely for the LSAT , 157... not in law school
Subject 6 - A male who is one of my close friends who is probably of similar intelligence to me, didn't believe you could study for a standardized test "bombed it horribly" (don't know his score)... not in law school
Subject 7 - A cocky male, aspirations of Duke, "can't study for standardized test" "bombed it horribly"... not n LS

The only semi- successes I guess:
Subject 8- Pretty intelligent guy, just took a couple PT's... currently in WF
Subject 9- Pretty intelligent guy, actually studied really hard too, was shocked he got a 159... currently in Tulane

THIS group is probably more representative of those taking the LSAT (you see their end results). I received a 167 and all of those above treat me like a god... meanwhile I'm slightly embarrassed about my score on TLS, but if you lump me in as subject 10 I'd score the best out of this group of 10 LSAT test takers..


Most of the people in my testing center did not seem like they knew about the LSAT. For example, they didn't understand what the experimental section was, how many LRs and LGs and RCs there were supposed to be, etc.

Yea, I tried to avoid talking to anyone on test day (I'm normally very outgoing, but really just wanted to be in a "zone") but due to a long wait outside of class as they "Set up" I was kind of forced into 2 conversations. One just took his 1st PT or something this week / spent the next 10 minutes explaining to me about how he heard there's this thing called an experimental section (I just kept saying "uh-huh). Another was a girl who took 3 practice tests / did HORRIBLE, but felt the adrenaline of real thing would help her out.

There was then a group of 10 takers all talking and I overheard one say he's re-taking and really shooting for a 170 this time. The 9 students around him started cracking up / losing it at how insane he was for going for 170...

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JamMasterJ
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:12 am

omninode wrote:
HBK wrote:
ThreeRivers wrote:
Mauve Dinosaur wrote:I have a 169, which places me firmly in the lower to middle range of this site. Looking over I made some stupid mistakes and am somewhat disappointed in myself. However according to LSAC I am in the 97th percentile. If I understand correctly, that should mean that 97% of LSAT writers did worse than I did. The lowest score I have ever even heard of anyone getting on an actual test is a 151 which is STILL supposedly above average. I just can not honestly believe that 50% of people who wrote the LSAT actually scored between 120 and 150. So are the percentiles artificially inflated somehow to make us feel better, or is it just a different kind of system than I originally imagined?

People I've known that have taken the LSAT and their end results

Subject 1- A not very intelligent but cocky male who didn't need to study for the LSAT, ended up going to Liberty, now works as a paralegal
Subject 2- A very intelligent male, who decided to get blacked out the night before his LSAT / ended up arriving to the test center with puke on him / horrible hangover. Currently in a lower ranked TTTT (forget which one)
Subject 3 - A pretty ditsy female, 149... not in law school
Subject 4- A pretty ditsy male, 142... not in law school
Subject 5- A very hard working, but not naturally smart female who has studied insanely for the LSAT , 157... not in law school
Subject 6 - A male who is one of my close friends who is probably of similar intelligence to me, didn't believe you could study for a standardized test "bombed it horribly" (don't know his score)... not in law school
Subject 7 - A cocky male, aspirations of Duke, "can't study for standardized test" "bombed it horribly"... not n LS

The only semi- successes I guess:
Subject 8- Pretty intelligent guy, just took a couple PT's... currently in WF
Subject 9- Pretty intelligent guy, actually studied really hard too, was shocked he got a 159... currently in Tulane

THIS group is probably more representative of those taking the LSAT (you see their end results). I received a 167 and all of those above treat me like a god... meanwhile I'm slightly embarrassed about my score on TLS, but if you lump me in as subject 10 I'd score the best out of this group of 10 LSAT test takers..


Most of the people in my testing center did not seem like they knew about the LSAT. For example, they didn't understand what the experimental section was, how many LRs and LGs and RCs there were supposed to be, etc.


It amazes me that somebody would spend money to register for a test and do absolutely no research or preparation. It's a sick sad world. They get what they deserve.

I didn't know about the exp section for my first test even though I had read the PS bibles and studied a month or so

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ThreeRivers
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Re: How do LSAT percentiles work?

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:16 am

Honestly, I really feel TLS can change a lot of individual's lives... Before it I really had a lot of ignorant beliefs when it came to law-school (any law school will get you a sick job). All of the things we learn on here became common sense to us, but we usually forget we were once comparable to a lot of those we mock now...




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