170+ and LGs

nelaw2010
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170+ and LGs

Postby nelaw2010 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:24 pm

It seems like almost all people who score a 170+ on the LSAT do very well on LGs. Did anyone with a 170+ end up with more than -2 on LG?

Would anyone who started out badly on LG, but went -2 or better on LG during the real thing, care to share any tips and tricks they used to improve?

Thanks!

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suspicious android
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby suspicious android » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:41 pm

I pride myself on being one of the worst ever at LG among 170+ scorers. I got a 173 while missing -3 on games and I got a 177 on a February test, wouldn't surprise me if I got 1-2 wrong on that (fairly easy) games section. I'm just not that good at games, they don't come naturally to me. I'm also not good at crossword puzzles, despite being really good at trivia, not good at sudoku, rubik's cube, reading maps, or really anything that relies on spatial skills and the ability to orient objects in your head while not confusing variables with similar attributes.

So, take heart, I don't believe in the TLS bromide that "everyone should be perfect at games". I tried like hell. I mean, I used to teach LSAT classes pretty much full time for like a year. I taught games to hundreds of people, and by the end of classes, I'd almost always have quite a few students who could make the deductions quicker than I could. BUT--just about anyone who's smart enough to get through high school algebra can get very good on games. And you can kill the LSAT while still missing 3-4 per section.

As for advice, I don't really think you need to do anything differently than anyone else, just practice, look for patterns, understand the kind of inference the LSAT rewards and the mistakes they punish.

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chesterfan1230
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby chesterfan1230 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:44 pm

I've always been good at LG but here's some advice I'll give:

1. Re-read all the restrictions, I can't express how important this is. Sometimes I would misread a rule like If X then not Y as If X then Y and it would cause me to screw up the whole game.
2. Clear Diagramming. I used blueprints methods and they really helped me get -1 or -0 wrong.
3. Take an extra minute out to make all the necessary deductions. Don't just dive into the game.... Taking that extra minute by looking at the game and making hypotheticals in your brain to draw deductions can save you LOTS of time on a potentially easy game.
4. When it's possible make situations. For some games there are 2-4 situations that would pretty much solve the entire game for you.

iamrobk
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby iamrobk » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:49 pm

chesterfan1230 wrote:I've always been good at LG but here's some advice I'll give:

1. Re-read all the restrictions, I can't express how important this is. Sometimes I would misread a rule like If X then not Y as If X then Y and it would cause me to screw up the whole game.
2. Clear Diagramming. I used blueprints methods and they really helped me get -1 or -0 wrong.
3. Take an extra minute out to make all the necessary deductions. Don't just dive into the game.... Taking that extra minute by looking at the game and making hypotheticals in your brain to draw deductions can save you LOTS of time on a potentially easy game.
4. When it's possible make situations. For some games there are 2-4 situations that would pretty much solve the entire game for you.

Definitely all this. Another thing I'll add is to focus 110% and avoid silly mistakes! Until the last 2 or 3 PT's I took (when I got a -0 on LG for the first time), I made 1-3 silly mistakes every time, and they're easy to avoid if you just pay attention and don't misread things.

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Take Two
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby Take Two » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:27 pm

I went -3 and scored 170+ and I will admit I sucked at the games. It was rough because I could tell that I was one of the better ones in my prep class at LR and RC but was getting wrecked on the LG. Everything everyone has said in here is sound advice so I will just add a brief thought, and this was just something I found I struggled with. You really have to switch gears in LG. In LR and RC you should be reading through all the answer choices and thinking about them but with LG (for the most part, there are some exceptions) you have to figure out the answer and bubble it. If you let yourself get bogged down in the answer choices you will get buried. Along with that if there is a question or question/type you find that you struggle with skip it and come back to it its not worth getting sucked in.

arozen89
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby arozen89 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:33 pm

I got a 170 in October and got -4 on games, and I was lucky to get that high. I typically get -0 or end up missing an entire game and missing 4/5. The only thing that saves me is that my LR is typically -1 for each section.

d0nk
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby d0nk » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:10 pm

I believe the reason for this trend is that LGs are the most learnable / perfectible section on the test. Usually those with 170+ scores are individuals who spent considerable time preparing for the test.

Here is the best advice I have for improving on Logic Games:
1. Make sure you fully understand whatever strategy you are using for the LG section (powerscore, manhattan, kaplan, velocity, test masters, etc..)
2. Get your hands on as many Logic Games sections as you can (there are around 250 individual games available)
3. Group the games by type and complete each game in each group.
4. Reviewing: Make sure to note the Qs you got wrong and the time it took you to complete each game. Also make sure to understand each game to the best of your abilities and any patterns or unusual elements in any particular game.
5. Once you complete every game you have collected, you then repeat this process.

This can be an incredibly time consuming plan of study. The amount of time you have to study will dictate how many games you want to include. If you are limited on time (are taking the December LSAT, for example) you may want to limit it to jut the last 10 or 20 LG sections.

You will see jumps in your speed and scores when you compare your results during your first trials to your second (and if you have time, third).

Games are one part of the LSAT that anyone with the requisite determination and intelligence (anyone scoring 170+) can master.

Good Luck!

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citykitty
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby citykitty » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:18 pm

I jacked up LG in June 11 and got a 170. I went -4 on the section, when I was doing -0 on all my late PTs. It was stupid mistakes that got me there. I misbubbled one I think and then just flaked. It's a shame really. A 174 would look much nicer IMO.

Da1andOnlyPharo
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby Da1andOnlyPharo » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:12 pm

IDK how useful this will be to you, but I went 171 and when I had left the test I thought my LG was pretty shaky, I went into the last game at the 5 minute warning and thought i was F*CKED! turns out I got -1 and it was from the first game! wth...I basically guessed on the last 5. haha now I'm not going to give luck all the credit, I did some extremely quick and sloppy diagramming and just made a bunch of educated guesses. anyway my recommendation for you...

I'm pretty sure everyone starts out kinda bad at LG, and derpy derp (you improve the most on that section! You've never heard that before have you?). anyways, what really got me to start performing consistently well was I had the Kaplan books; I don't recommend taking the Kaplan course, but the books are really useful. There's a mastery section which just has games of each type, then theres pacing quizzes that are a section long, and then theres endurance tests (full length prep tests). I started hitting the games in mastery and kept trying to get my time under 8:45. When I was done, I started doing pacing and saw my scores greatly improve. eventually I started thinking I had LG in the bag, however once I started taking full length preptests I realized that you do not want to get over confident. as you can see from a lot of people, they think they've got it down and then blow it cuz of nerves or w/e. all you can really do is keep practicing until you first complete games consistently in under 8:45, and then shoot for 4 games in under 35:00. Heres where my opinion differs from most people...

Everyone says Powerscore LGB is a must--and granted, its a very comprehensive guide to LG. But I think to do your best at LG is to just go at them and develop your own strategies with experience. Have you ever had some life-changing epiphany, only to realize you've been told the thing you realized by others many times? its the same thing...if you realize something on your own, you'll internalize it way faster than if your trying to memorize something someone else told you. After I had developed most of my own strategies, I figured PS LGB could help me fine tune my skills, but honestly, trying to classify everything just slowed me down. I recommend a holistic way of hitting games...and if you have trouble after going at them for a while, then maybe you should consult LGB.

Pretty soon you'll start to love LG just like the rest of us :wink:

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PurplePirate
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby PurplePirate » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:19 pm

nelaw2010 wrote:It seems like almost all people who score a 170+ on the LSAT do very well on LGs. Did anyone with a 170+ end up with more than -2 on LG?

Would anyone who started out badly on LG, but went -2 or better on LG during the real thing, care to share any tips and tricks they used to improve?

Thanks!



Not trying to be a douchebag or anything, but people who are scoring 170+ are most likely scoring well on every single section of the test, not just the LG.

With that said, I'm going to repeat what everyone else told me. Drill, drill, drill. That's the only way you'll get faster. Good luck!

phillipjg
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby phillipjg » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:21 pm

December '09, 170 with -7 on lg
October '11, 171 with -6 on lg

Leading up to October, I spent around 100 hours on logic games, going through the PS LG bible 3 times.

I'm just glad I'm alright at the other sections.

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tedler
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby tedler » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:40 pm

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Last edited by tedler on Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gthopeful
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby gthopeful » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:41 pm

Bump...I'm interested in getting new study techniques

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Tim0thy222
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby Tim0thy222 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:05 pm

nelaw2010 wrote:It seems like almost all people who score a 170+ on the LSAT do very well on LGs. Did anyone with a 170+ end up with more than -2 on LG?

Would anyone who started out badly on LG, but went -2 or better on LG during the real thing, care to share any tips and tricks they used to improve?

Thanks!



I scored a 177 on the October 11 LSAT and I went -3 on LG, -1 on RC, and -1 on LR.

Firstly, I thought I had gone -6 or more on LG because I really lost it on the last couple of games. Looking back on it I think I was helped out a lot by the fact that I had done so many LGs (every LG from every test LSAC has disclosed, actually), that I was really used to seeing where the right answer might be even when I can't totally figure it out (whether the free-floating variable or the one that sets off a reaction, or maybe which variables will or will not cause crowding). I normally went -0 or -1 or so on PTs, but this last LSAT had some hard games that threw everyone.

I used to be really bad at logic games but got much much better by doing the following:
1.Work through the Powerscore bible
2.Buy the package of all the LGs from tests 1-38 or whatever, sorted by difficulty and type, from Cambridge LSAT (be prepared to print a lot of paper)
3.Do those games one at a time, timing yourself with the same watch you will use on the LSAT. You don't have to drop the pencil after 8:45, but try to keep it under 8 minutes, and if it climbs into 10 or 11 minutes try to figure out why it happened afterward.
4. After every game, go back and see what questions you got wrong, and why. Ask yourself what you could've done in your setup, diagramming, or whatever, to spot the right answer on time. Also if you're going over on time, ask yourself what you can do to improve your timing if you're going over time or just feel like you can do better. Then what I like to do is write down bullet points of what I learned from each game in a notebook and reread them a couple times to really dig them into my brain.

And OP, I think maybe people on here insist on always being -0 on LG because they feel it is the "most learnable" section of the test, but I learned the shit out of LR and RC, to the point where they were easy and predictable, and I think doing so was (for me) easier than mastering LG. I would suggest shooting for -0 or as close to you can on those sections by using the same method I described above (powerscore bibles, lots of cambridge lsat drills, and a lot of self-reflection and strategizing).

Wow, I just wrote way more than I meant to. Hope it helps!


Oh one more thing, Powerscore bible for LG will have you write out all of the inferences. That is good at first because you need to see where they are, but I shaved a ton of time off my drills when I got to a point where I could just see the inferences in my mind and no longer needed to draw them out. Drawing the inferences is a huge time suck, and referring back to a monstrous diagram is even more time consuming.

vodkashot
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Re: 170+ and LGs

Postby vodkashot » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:18 pm

I know it's been said before but....drill, baby, drill!

Besides drilling fanatically, what really helped me was using the PS Bibles as a foundation, then augmenting this with some strategies from Manhattan LSAT (PS Bible's pure sequencing and grouping games seemed very counter-intuitive to me, and using Manhattan's methods instead made these sort of games much less daunting).




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