LSAT terrible cold score

warmich
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LSAT terrible cold score

Postby warmich » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:47 pm

I am currently a junior in college and recently took a cold LSAT and scored much worse than anticipated. My score was a 135. I was wondering if its realistic to score 160+ on the real test. I was nervous to even take the cold one and I'm planning to take another one soon to get another assessment. I also have time before taking the actual LSAT, so prep time is about 8 months.

Thank you for you assistance.

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AlexanderSupertramp
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby AlexanderSupertramp » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:52 pm

Probably. You can't really tell until you do some practice. If you notice your score increasing as you practice a 160 shouldn't be too hard. I think I scored a 138 on my first (practice) test. I plateaued around 160 and took the real thing then.

mushybrain
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby mushybrain » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:55 pm

Did you take it timed?

warmich
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby warmich » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:55 pm

Yes, I took it timed.

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gaud
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby gaud » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:00 pm

I wouldn't worry about taking another test before beginning prep; you can really just being now. Eight months is plenty of time to reach a 160 (or even higher) if you take prep seriously and make sure you don't burn out.

I'd take a look at Pithypike's guide right here viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41657 and consider creating a schedule similar to this.

mushybrain
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby mushybrain » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:02 pm

Then maybe. The first couple you take after starting review will give a better picture. That said, a 25 point jump is massive. It's easier to make gains in that range than it is at the very top, but it's hard to say.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby crumpetsandtea » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:04 pm

At this point, there's no real purpose to you taking another practice test, so I'm going to caution you to NOT TAKE ANOTHER PRACTICE TEST.

Why, you ask?

Well, first of all, what makes you think that your score will improve between now and then with little to no practice? Moreover, if your score doesn't improve, what do you think the point of taking another test is? You might jump/drop a few points, but it's not going to make that big of a difference.

What you SHOULD be doing is taking a looong, close look at the test you just took. At 135, I'm guessing that there wasn't '1 section in particular' that was really hard, but there may be variances in which section felt easier/harder. Ask yourself if you had timing issues (but don't worry about that jsut yet in your prep work) Get your hands on the Powerscore Bibles (LG/LR) and the Manhattan RC GUide and as many Practice Tests as you can (REAL ONES...but DO NOT use them yet, just get them now so you don't have to worry about it later).

After getting your hands on these, work through all 3 prep books VERY THOROUGHLY. Make sure you do all the problems, really read the guidelines, and get familiar with the techniques. This should take at least 2-3 months, given your current score. THEN, do another practice test. After that test, re-assess your position: ideally you should have seen some sort of score jump on most sections, and one section will be your 'weaker' one.

Once you identify which section(s) are harder for you, the next step is to DRILL DRILL DRILL. Do as many questions as you possibly can to make sure you are familiar with the test and the curves it throws at you. Start with the questions untimed (if timing is an issue) and focus on ACCURACY. Once you are getting high accuracy on all the questions, start timing them (the Bibles will give you some idea of how long you should be spending on each question/passage/game). Then maybe do a few timed sections.

THEN, about 2-3 months before the test, start doing 2-3 PTs a week. The key to doing PTs is that you want to make sure you review VERY THOROUGHLY. Don't just grade the test then forget about it. Look at what you got wrong--why did you get them wrong? Why is the right answer correct? Did the writers of the test 'trick you' somehow (they do that a lot)? If so, how can you avoid being 'tricked' in the same way in the future? Is there a pattern between the types of questions you're missing?

At this point you should be improving more in your PTs. If you find yourself getting stuck in a rut and not improving between practice tests, stop doing them and go back to drilling. Drilling is the FOUNDATION of your LSAT knowledge, PT-ing is only useful for timing, mental endurance, and test-day-setting issues (ie: working under timed conditions, not in your bed at home, with a fake proctor, with distractions).

LSAT Blog has some AWESOME schedules to follow. It seems like the 7 month study schedule would work best with your timeline. I highly recommend looking at what he recommends and basing your schedule off it.

Last notes: Don't burn yourself out! It's okay to go off schedule or change your schedule midway. Best of luck <3

warmich
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby warmich » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:05 pm

Okay, thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it.

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aarias11
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby aarias11 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:07 pm

Dude I thought ur post said lsat coldsore I thought it was hillarious. 135 is pretty bad but u will gain 10 points just by being able to go through the test without signuficant fatigue

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BEAST_mode
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby BEAST_mode » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:11 pm

College buddy was sub 150 on his first cold as a sophomore. Two years later he hit 178. Cold LSAT is really not an indicator of anything, especially if you took it timed.

NervousNelly
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby NervousNelly » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:31 pm

I totally thought this was about trying to excuse an LSAT score with an addendum about having a cold sore on the day of the test,

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Rheastoria
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby Rheastoria » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:40 pm

NervousNelly wrote:I totally thought this was about trying to excuse an LSAT score with an addendum about having a cold sore on the day of the test,


I did too, haha!

josh43299
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby josh43299 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:54 pm

A lot of people here are anti-LSAT courses, but I think starting off with a 135 would be a good reason to do a prep course, rather than self study. There are many good ones out there; I did the Blueprint online course that I highly recommend, especially if your only live option is Kaplan or something. A 135 indicates to me that you have had very little background in logic or argument analysis and a course will provide analysis for pretty much every question you do in a way that may be more accessible. I don't feel like spending 900 bucks or so, if you can, is a bad investment if you want to improve by a large amount. Obviously, I think that you could do just as well on your own, but self study can be more difficult for some than others.

josh43299
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby josh43299 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:58 pm

Also, if you do a course, I recommend making copies of every game so that you can do them at least two or three times.

warmich
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby warmich » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:15 pm

Sorry to everyone about the misunderstanding of the subject lol. Also, thank you so much for the input from everyone else. It has been a relief to hear that it is possible because it really deterred me seeing that score. I am planning on taking a course at the end of this school year which is $200 which isn't too bad. I will also be speaking to my advisor about the right books to purchase.

josh43299
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby josh43299 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:23 pm

One thing to watch out for: Some of these courses that are available at college campuses are absolutely terrible. If it is $200, that is great, but make sure that people have good things to say about it. Also, you want to make sure they use REAL LSAT questions, as some of them do not. If they are not real questions, absolutely do not take the course.

warmich
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby warmich » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:27 pm

The course is run by my advisor, I will definitely ask around to hear what people have to say about it. He is also a big believer of practicing with real questions.

josh43299
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby josh43299 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:45 pm

Awesome. I saw a huge jump in my score in my prep, it can definitely be done. Good luck!

Run!
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby Run! » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:33 pm

Where and in what conditions did you take the test? Do you have a background in logical reasoning type thinking? What is your major?

warmich
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby warmich » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:18 pm

I took the test in the library at 10AM on a Saturday, it was also timed. I do not have any background at all in logical reasoning type thinking. My major is Criminology with a minor in Business.

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seancris
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby seancris » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:11 am

135 is pretty terrible, it's hard to see how one goes from that kind of a score to a 160+. My cold score was a 154, I don't know anyone personally who scored below 145 cold. At the end of the day, the LSAT is a skills test and IIRC 80% of test takers will score below a 160 on gameday. Not everyone can score 160+, and even a 160 won't always get you into a school that you'd want to go to. I would simply advise against putting all of your eggs in one basket (law school) as you begin your LSAT prep and look towards graduation. Definitely spend time networking and resume building and putting together a solid backup plan. If law school becomes the only option that you've given yourself and you score a 153 on test day you'll be screwed.

That said, I think you could average +4 on each section just with practice test-taking. Solving timing issues and test taking strategies can likely provide that kind of boost. Then you're at 144ish. Practice might get you up to another +5 on games, +5 on each LR section for an additional +15. Puts you around 153. Reading comp is hard to improve on. Even if you get an additional +5 somehow, you're only at a 155. You'd need to find an additional 8 raw score points or so beyond what I've laid out to even get to 160. Seems unrealistic to me, but that's just my take on it. 155 +/- 2 seems like a realistic goal if you spend months prepping IMO. Keep in mind that test day anxieties tend to have a negative impact and people tend to score lower rather than higher than expectations.

I realize that the way I've laid it out is really forumlaic but I thought it might be helpful to demonstrate the kind of improvements that need to be made.

Best of luck.
Last edited by seancris on Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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seancris
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby seancris » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:25 am

I will also be speaking to my advisor about the right books to purchase.


Also, pre-law advisors are useless IMO. I view them all as bumbling retards, and I would never ask them for advice. One pre-law advisor here told a freshman to double major in Philosophy and Chinese because Philosophy would "help with the LSAT," and a double major would "look really good" to adcomms. In reality, if he did that he would spend 4 years stressed out of his mind with no job prospects post-graduation, and in all likelihood he would have a shit GPA which matters 10000x more than any benefit he might get (negligible) from double-majoring. They don't know anything. At least not anything you couldn't learn for yourself with a little research.

Courses are useless too in my experience. Many students spend 2k+ on a course and score in the low 150s. The people that I know who scored 160+ on the LSAT and took a course would've scored 160+ without the course, and they would've kept their 2k for a semester of rent during law school.

And unless I'm missing something, a $200 course taught by a pre-law advisor sounds super sketchy.

AriGoldButNicer
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby AriGoldButNicer » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:02 pm

seancris wrote:
I will also be speaking to my advisor about the right books to purchase.


Also, pre-law advisors are useless IMO. I view them all as bumbling retards, and I would never ask them for advice. One pre-law advisor here told a freshman to double major in Philosophy and Chinese because Philosophy would "help with the LSAT," and a double major would "look really good" to adcomms. In reality, if he did that he would spend 4 years stressed out of his mind with no job prospects post-graduation, and in all likelihood he would have a shit GPA which matters 10000x more than any benefit he might get (negligible) from double-majoring. They don't know anything. At least not anything you couldn't learn for yourself with a little research.

Courses are useless too in my experience. Many students spend 2k+ on a course and score in the low 150s. The people that I know who scored 160+ on the LSAT and took a course would've scored 160+ without the course, and they would've kept their 2k for a semester of rent during law school.

And unless I'm missing something, a $200 course taught by a pre-law advisor sounds super sketchy.

i think you're forgetting that most people in these courses, at least in my experience started at a 135-140 and don't have the personality to be able to study for over 2-3 hours a week leading up to their LSAT. TLS is self selecting. the average test taker is not really able to improve their score more than a handful of points as they are not capable of approaching the situation rationally, and with dedication.

OP, what's your gpa? splitters are rare, particularly right out of UG splitters as there's a definite correlation b/w work put in and time management, and GPA in undergrad. The LSAT rate of improvement is going to be similar. Unless people make life changes, generally a 3.0 or 2.8 type student is just systematically incapable of the intense studying necessary to drastically improve their score.

So if you are generally lazy or just the type of person who is "I know it's my destiny so it'll happen" then you may want to consider bypassing studying in favor of finding employment at the GAP or perhaps a field less contingent on logical reasoning and reading comprehension?

You should realize that attending a law school that will give you a shot at gainful employment will require going from roughly the 5th percentile to roughly the 80th percentile on a test where most will be studying as well. You should realize this could take many years to do. You should also realize that the LSAT measures a particular kind of intelligence, and if you're fluent in English yet still struggle so much there's a lot of eye openers here. Your reasoning skills are far below the national average, and therefore far below many law students that aren't getting jobs. This isn't to say you're not smart, but if your logic is at a junior high school level you may want to consider a field that more plays to your intelligence. Remember, you can wear a nice suit and do a great Tom Cruise impersonation, but you may not be able to just yell "I want the truth" every day. Some days you may be expected to use actual logic.

That said, you're the first person I've met below a 140 who can put together a complete sentence, and the word "anticipate" at 4 syllables is the most I've ever seen in a properly written sentence by somebody with a 137 so while I would normally advise reading hooked on phonics to somebody below a 140, you clearly just don't know much about logic. I'd start by looking at conclusions, reading about conclusions, making them your life.

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3v3ryth1ng
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby 3v3ryth1ng » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:41 pm

I got that too. Try Valtrex, and be careful next time.

neuroticjew
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Re: LSAT terrible cold score

Postby neuroticjew » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:50 pm

3v3ryth1ng wrote:I got that too. Try Valtrex, and be careful next time.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




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