how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

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kittycaht
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how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby kittycaht » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:09 pm

Just came home from my first TestMasters class which is basically a diagnostic.

Prior to this timed 4 hour exam, I have only taken about a total of 3 exams, untimed (though I don't have a problem with timing except with logic games), and I've never done more than a section or two in a day. This is the first time testing for 4 hours in a row...

When I tried the logical reasoning sections at home, I have never gotten more than 4 wrong in any given section (usually only 2 or 3) but I was surprised to find I actually got 7 wrong on the last section so I think my biggest problem is fatigue.

I scored a 156 and am very disappointed.. what are the chances of getting 170+ by Dec 3rd if I complete my course and study diligently?


Thank you =)
Last edited by kittycaht on Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

kaiser
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Re: 156 on first LSAT diagnostic

Postby kaiser » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:11 pm

kittycaht wrote:Just came home from my first TestMasters class which is basically a diagnostic.

Prior to this timed 4 hour exam, I have only taken about a total of 3 exams, untimed (though I don't have a problem with timing except with logic games), and I've only a section or two a day. This is the first time testing for 4 hours in a row...

When I tried the logical reasoning sections at home, I have never gotten more than 4 wrong in any given section (usually only 2 or 3) but I was surprised to find I actually got 7 wrong the last section so I think my biggest problem is fatigue.

I scored a 156 and am very disappointed.. what are the chances of getting 170+ by Dec 3rd if I complete my course and study diligently?


Thank you =)


22.7% chance to be precise

In all seriousness, no one could tell you what your chances are. Some people improve by 15 points, others improve by 5. It is certain possible to improve to a 170. I know many people who started in the upper 150's and moved up to the 170's once they got the basic core fundamentals of the test in order and built upon them with more specialized things. Don't think a starting point of 156 is poor, because it isn't.

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kittycaht
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Re: 156 on first LSAT diagnostic

Postby kittycaht » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:17 pm

kaiser wrote:
kittycaht wrote:Just came home from my first TestMasters class which is basically a diagnostic.

Prior to this timed 4 hour exam, I have only taken about a total of 3 exams, untimed (though I don't have a problem with timing except with logic games), and I've only a section or two a day. This is the first time testing for 4 hours in a row...

When I tried the logical reasoning sections at home, I have never gotten more than 4 wrong in any given section (usually only 2 or 3) but I was surprised to find I actually got 7 wrong the last section so I think my biggest problem is fatigue.

I scored a 156 and am very disappointed.. what are the chances of getting 170+ by Dec 3rd if I complete my course and study diligently?


Thank you =)


22.7% chance to be precise

In all seriousness, no one could tell you what your chances are. Some people improve by 15 points, others improve by 5. It is certain possible to improve to a 170. I know many people who started in the upper 150's and moved up to the 170's once they got the basic core fundamentals of the test in order and built upon them with more specialized things. Don't think a starting point of 156 is poor, because it isn't.


you're right - I should rephrase my question to: "how much improvement is seen, on average, from the first diagnostic to actual test?"

also, thanks for the quick response =)

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toddly76
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Re: 156 on first LSAT diagnostic

Postby toddly76 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:18 pm

kittychat,

I took a powerscore course this summer and scored a 156 on my first diagnostic. I just took the October LSAT so I won't know my official score, but I was pt-ing at 169-172 and had two 175s under my belt on fully timed practice tests.

It is completely doable but the trick is that you have to do ALL of the homework in your course. Don't say you'll get to it later, don't put it off, make all the time you can for it. Plus start doing timed sections and timed tests a few weeks in to get yourself used to it.

FWIW, if I had to guess, I'd say I scored a 167 or so on the October LSAT because the logic games were very difficult. I'm already planning on retaking in December and I'm going to switch prep companies to get a new perspective on the games before I go into it. The best advice is just drill, drill, drill, become familiar with all the concepts, and do as many questions as possible.

hope this helps.

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kittycaht
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Re: 156 on first LSAT diagnostic

Postby kittycaht » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:22 pm

toddly76 wrote:kittychat,

I took a powerscore course this summer and scored a 156 on my first diagnostic. I just took the October LSAT so I won't know my official score, but I was pt-ing at 169-172 and had two 175s under my belt on fully timed practice tests.

It is completely doable but the trick is that you have to do ALL of the homework in your course. Don't say you'll get to it later, don't put it off, make all the time you can for it. Plus start doing timed sections and timed tests a few weeks in to get yourself used to it.

FWIW, if I had to guess, I'd say I scored a 167 or so on the October LSAT because the logic games were very difficult. I'm already planning on retaking in December and I'm going to switch prep companies to get a new perspective on the games before I go into it. The best advice is just drill, drill, drill, become familiar with all the concepts, and do as many questions as possible.

hope this helps.


how long did you study for? I only have 2 months til the dec test and I've only JUST begun studying =(

I should've started earlier but my schedule just wouldn't permit it.

btw, let me know how you end up doing, I hope you did well =)

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toddly76
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Re: 156 on first LSAT diagnostic

Postby toddly76 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:30 pm

I took my first diagnostic on June 26 and took the exam on Oct 1, so three months. Truth be told, about 6 weeks in, there was a three week spell in which I was burnt out and didn't keep up with everything very well. In all honesty, I believe that I may have peaked too soon and just burnt myself out with practice tests later on. If you devote 4 hours a day or so to it, I would think two months is more than adequate.

I woke up early in the morning when my mind was freshest and would do review and drilling then, but other people work differently of course. Luckily, I'm a grad student and was doing nothing over the summer so I had plenty of time, but even when school started I was able to keep up pretty well with everything except drilling. If I had a few hours I spent it doing a practice test which was probably a mistake.

With two months, I think you'll be fine but, as with anything else, its practice practice practice.

Seneca
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby Seneca » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:54 pm

I took a TestMasters course last winter for the June 2011 test and saw over a ten-point increase from my first TM diagnostic to my actual LSAT, though my PT median was several points higher than my actual score - that's common, and an important factor to consider when you're estimating your probable score range on test day. You can absolutely see a big jump, but with any prep course, how big of a jump you see depends almost entirely on the amount of time you spend practicing out of class, and no one will be able to offer you an exact number, other than to say that even 10-15+ point jumps are not unheard of - but I can give you a little insight into what I did, having taken that prep course, and what you can do as well.

I saved certain parts of homework assignments (certain question types for LR, specifically) to use for review closer to test day, as I had a month+ between the end of my class and the test day, but if you have two months, then do it all, on time, for every class. After your second TM diagnostic, ask your instructor to pinpoint specific problem areas and recommend specific techniques to resolve them (you can do this after the first diagnostic, but the results will be relatively inconclusive, as you haven't learned any of the TM techniques yet anyway) for you to work on outside of class. Around this time, start working through the online diagnostics - initially at a rate of one or so a week, and then more as the test date approaches and your instructor recommends. Expect to spend nearly as much time reviewing every missed question as you do taking the test. During the month between the course and the test, I spent a minimum of 6 hours a day, 6 days per week studying; plan on doing the same, even if it has to be in addition to the homework. Also, look through some of the study guides on TLS, and look for any thing you think you can use to supplement your course - you'll find a ton of excellent advice and studying strategies.

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tedler
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby tedler » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:04 pm

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Last edited by tedler on Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gaud
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby gaud » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:06 pm

I went up 16pts from my diagnostic (and hoping to see a greater difference once i recieve my score for the oct. lsat)

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:18 pm

It is completely doable but the trick is that you have to do ALL of the homework in your course. Don't say you'll get to it later, don't put it off, make all the time you can for it. Plus start doing timed sections and timed tests a few weeks in to get yourself used to it.


This is credited. You need to spend more time working outside of class than in it. I improved 14 points from the first TM diag to the real thing, and I had more exposure to the test than you when I started.

Two months is plenty if you dedicate the appropriate amount of time to homework outside of class. Don't put any kind of artificial cap on your potential.

inflightradio
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby inflightradio » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:39 am

I improved by 21 points (most recent diagnostic) from my first diagnostic after taking Testmasters... So my jump was from 150 to 171. I hope this gives you more faith in yourself because you can definitely do it!

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kittycaht
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby kittycaht » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:09 pm

This is all good information to know. Very encouraging. My GPA is relatively low (3.6) even though it's from a group of universities that have a reputation for being hard but I doubt law school admission offices care about that so I have to do well on LSAT in order to get into the schools I want.

Actually, I'm surprised that everyone so far has been so nice and helpful! I was hesitant about posting... =P

Is anyone interested in doing a study group in LA?

neuroticjew
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby neuroticjew » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:12 pm

For whatever little help it's worth, I saw a big improvement during the course of taking PTs. I took the LSAT on Saturday and obviously don't know my score yet, but my first PT was 152 (though I kinda slept through part of it, which might explain that) and the first few were all around 162-163. Then I got Powerscore's LG Bible and shot up to about 167-168 average, then after running through a bunch more PTs settled into the low-mid 170s range. We'll see how well it paid off in three weeks! But bottom line, there's no reason you can't turn a 156 into a 166 or even 176.

mikeh
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby mikeh » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:06 pm

I went up 18 pts from first diagnosis in three months. Took the October LSAT but I think I might just re-take it in December depending what score I get. I might be available for a study group in LA.

Want_My_Life_Back
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby Want_My_Life_Back » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:23 pm

I scored a 154 on my TM diag., which was the first time I had seen the test. I've been PTing pretty steady at 178, and am hoping for at least that if not better on the Oct. test. So significant gains are possible. It didn't hurt that I had a really good instructor who was really good at explaining why an answer was correct but even better at pointing out why the other answer choices were wrong.
Just make sure that you don't brute force your way through PTs; analyze each question you got wrong or were unsure of. Read carefully through each stimulus when you go over problems and make sure you can point out the logic or any underlying flaws.
Last edited by Want_My_Life_Back on Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:29 pm

I improved around 10-15 points and have known plenty of people who improved 15+ points with sufficient prep. That means mid-150s can become a 170+ with enough dedication and practice. Good luck.

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oldad
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby oldad » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:50 pm

I went up 12 from my first. I know other people who got better by 16 points though.

I think it's probably easier to improve if there is a particular section that you do poorly on. I was terrible at games at first and by the time I took the actual test I had them pretty well down, and that section alone made a difference of about 8 points on the overall test.

Mitterrand
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Re: how much improvement is seen from first diag to actual LSAT?

Postby Mitterrand » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:33 pm

I went up 7 points but I didn't do much of the homework.




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