LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

bigdawg6
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LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby bigdawg6 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:02 pm

Hi all,

I am a long time lurker but first time poster. I just took the October 2011 LSAT and had an issue with a test proctor that could result in an invalidated exam. I could use advice on how to proceed.

My LSAT head test proctor clearly called time early on my third section (Critical Reading). The entire room of test takers raised an uproar and had a five minute discussion due to general agreement about the early ending. Following the discussion, the head test proctor insisted that she had kept time correctly but offered to give us another five minutes on the test. I informed her (and the class), that an extra five minutes would almost certainly invalidate the exam for all of us, and that the proctor should call LSAC and ask how to proceed. While she left the room, the other test proctors excused a small group of people (maybe five or six) to go to the bathroom. Members of the class pointed out that the mere dismissal of people from the exam on a non break time could invalidate the results of the exam. When the proctor returned, she informed us that we could not get extra time but that we were free to file a complaint to LSAC. Luckily, the third section turned out to be my experimental section, so the time issue did not affect me beyond throwing me off mentally on the next two sections.

Do you think that my test will be invalidated as a result of these events? Any advice you guys could provide on how I should file a complaint and if there is any way I could avoid being invalidated?

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dietcoke0
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby dietcoke0 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:06 pm

Damn, sucks. Up to LSAC. I'm sure they will be more to the student's favor, since they messed up, allowing a free retake or your score, depending on what you want (before grading). But a rough situation. Where was this if you don't mind me asking?

bigdawg6
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby bigdawg6 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:23 pm

It was in North Carolina and NC Central. I'm really hoping it won't be invalidated.

mushybrain
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby mushybrain » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:35 pm

I think you should be fine. Something similar happened when I took it in June, the proctor called LSAC, etc etc, and it wouldn't have been invalidated if I hadn't canceled. Others I took it with got their scores as usual.

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SarahKerrigan
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby SarahKerrigan » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:41 pm

jimmney crickets cant people keep time right?! isn't that like 1/2 of their job?

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dietcoke0
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby dietcoke0 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:42 pm

Well, the other half, being row two and center, is to talk to each other, shuffle papers, drop shit, and make noises with the digital timer.

shahkanon
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby shahkanon » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:24 pm

I had a similar issue, our proctor neglected to inform everyone of five minutes remaining during section 4, so when the time was up, collective sighs occurred. Frustratingly enough, I thought I was killing it, because I was on the last few questions of the section when time was up, but had I known, I would've at least picked up the pace to answer the questions with the rest of time, or at least default an answer. I honestly feel like it totally annihilated my ability to perform during section 5 as well. I brought up the issue that she failed to essentially perform the only necessary task of her job, and her garbage non-sincere response was "I'm sorry." I started to basically yell at her to talk to the testing supervisor, to remedy the situation, but their only response was to inform LSAC of a testing irregularity. I made sure to get her name as i left. Had I stayed i would of probably berated her for being worthless, but I am going to call LSAC on Monday morning to see if I can get registered for December for free because of it. Maybe if im lucky get Oct waived/canceled.

Word for the wise, avoid Saddleback Community College as a testing center like the plague.

gogogadgetlaw
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby gogogadgetlaw » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:34 pm

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Last edited by gogogadgetlaw on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bigdawg6
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby bigdawg6 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:42 pm

Yeah, it is just a bad situation. Any vets who had a similar thing occur?

bigdawg6
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby bigdawg6 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:43 am

Bump, anybody have any experience with this or advice about how/if I should write up my report to LSAC?

anthony55
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby anthony55 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:50 pm

I don't really visit this forum much at all, but I wanted to share my friend's story from this weekend's LSAT regarding crazy proctors.

When she walked up in line to enter the test room, the test proctor looked at her attached photo and told her that it was no good, and that she'd have to leave. The proctor said that the photo had to be a "passport photo" with a white background. Though my friend's photo was clear and showed her face, the background was not white or neutral colored. When the proctor insisted she leave, my friend fought back, stating that nowhere was it required that the photo be a "passport photo", and even whipped out the LSAC instructions regarding the photo requirement and read it verbatim to the proctor. The proctor eventually chose to let her in, but it certainly affected her mentality to almost be shut out of the test.

What's worse, is after my friend read the proctor the rules from the LSAC instructions, the proctor continued to censure students for not attaching "passport photos", even expelling some students from the testing center (ones who didn't fight back like my friend).

The kids who were expelled, in addition to my friend who was rattled by this experience, will all be reporting these proctors to LSAC... But seriously, what is with these power-hungry proctors? It's one thing to be diligent about security measures and to make sure that there is no conspicuous cheating (a la http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/nyreg ... ating.html), but to throw kids out of the test because of the background color in their photo, when that isn't even stipulated in the rules, seems absurd.
Last edited by anthony55 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kahechsof
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby kahechsof » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:53 pm

anthony55 wrote:]
But seriously, what is with these power-hungry proctors?


They use unemployed T14 graduates.

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glucose101
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby glucose101 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:59 pm

Ya, I absolutely don't understand it. As a Decemberist, I'm worried about proctor irregularities. How hard is it to keep track of 35 mins?!

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Jeffort
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby Jeffort » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:27 pm

anthony55 wrote:...Though my friend's photo was clear and showed her face, the background was not white or neutral colored...


What's worse, is after my friend read the proctor the rules from the LSAC instructions, the proctor continued to censure students for not attaching "passport photos", even expelling some students from the testing center (ones who didn't fight back like my friend).

...but to throw kids out of the test because of the background color in their photo, when that isn't even stipulated in the rules, seems absurd.


Uhmm, it is stipulated in the rules and even illustrated with pictures so you don't have to read a lot of text.

http://www.lsac.org/JD/LSAT/photo-requirements.asp

The only thing missing from the day of test instructions http://www.lsac.org/JD/LSAT/day-of-test.asp is text that says something like 'passport type photograph'.

My guess is that for now LSAC probably decided not to include such text because, in order to make it EASY for test takers (god forbid!), they currently allow pictures printed on non-photo quality paper (on normal printer paper is OK, even in black and white is OK in case you don't have access to a color printer) so that you can do it on the cheap yourself at home, whereas passport photos have to be 2 X 2 on photo paper (for the LSAT it can be anywhere from 1 X 1 inches to 2 X 2 inches).

Grow up, stop whining and stop trying to blame others for mistakes students make because they didn't read-up and properly prepare. You are trying to get into law school to become a lawyer and enter the real world. Please act like an adult and realize that the law is all about rules and following/applying/enforcing them. It's not like high school or undergrad where rules and regulations are frequently treated merely as suggestions.

.
Last edited by Jeffort on Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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puff0ffluff
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby puff0ffluff » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:30 pm

i have a proctor question too: were they suppose to take our ticket stubs?

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Ginj
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby Ginj » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:32 pm

puff0ffluff wrote:i have a proctor question too: were they suppose to take our ticket stubs?


Yep

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3v3ryth1ng
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby 3v3ryth1ng » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:11 pm

Considering the time, effort, and money people shell out preparing for the LSAT, I wonder if it's possible to sue a proctor or the LSAC. That would be a great incentive not to fuck up the easiest job in the world.

anthony55
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby anthony55 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:41 am

Jeffort wrote:
anthony55 wrote:...Though my friend's photo was clear and showed her face, the background was not white or neutral colored...


What's worse, is after my friend read the proctor the rules from the LSAC instructions, the proctor continued to censure students for not attaching "passport photos", even expelling some students from the testing center (ones who didn't fight back like my friend).

...but to throw kids out of the test because of the background color in their photo, when that isn't even stipulated in the rules, seems absurd.


Uhmm, it is stipulated in the rules and even illustrated with pictures so you don't have to read a lot of text.

http://www.lsac.org/JD/LSAT/photo-requirements.asp

The only thing missing from the day of test instructions http://www.lsac.org/JD/LSAT/day-of-test.asp is text that says something like 'passport type photograph'.

My guess is that for now LSAC probably decided not to include such text because, in order to make it EASY for test takers (god forbid!), they currently allow pictures printed on non-photo quality paper (on normal printer paper is OK, even in black and white is OK in case you don't have access to a color printer) so that you can do it on the cheap yourself at home, whereas passport photos have to be 2 X 2 on photo paper (for the LSAT it can be anywhere from 1 X 1 inches to 2 X 2 inches).

Grow up, stop whining and stop trying to blame others for mistakes students make because they didn't read-up and properly prepare. You are trying to get into law school to become a lawyer and enter the real world. Please act like an adult and realize that the law is all about rules and following/applying/enforcing them. It's not like high school or undergrad where rules and regulations are frequently treated merely as suggestions.

.


That would be fine -- my friend even said, I would be okay with this "rule" if it was actually IN the rules -- except that in all of the text, including in the (long) instructions/rules that LSAC sends you with your admission ticket which you print out and read, it stipulates nothing about the background color of your photo. Just about the size, clarity, etc. Without digging around on the LSAC website, one would not find that page with all of those sample photos of what's right/wrong. If they want test takers to only attach photos with white/neutral backgrounds, they should add that to the section of test day instructions under "photo requirement" that they send to each test taker.

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PurplePirate
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby PurplePirate » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:59 am

A good friend of mine was with you at NCCU. She called the LSAC today and they said to send them an email explaining what happened and what she wants to do about her score.

I'm really sorry this happened. I can't imagine what I would have done in your situation.

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cynthia rose
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby cynthia rose » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:39 pm

God, that sucks. I have no idea if LSAC will completely invalidate the score, but I commenting because I think my experience from the first time I took the LSAT will give you at least a decent timeline for the decision process.

I took the LSAT at UDC and for some reason they had shut off the air in the entire building and we were in a room with non-opening windows, so the room quickly became hot and everyone was sweating bullets. The proctors did bring in a fan but there was that ONE wench who bitched about the fan being too loud for her to concentrate, and she put up such a fuss about it that the proctors didn't use it. I didn't think the heat detracted from my score that much - admittedly I'd done almost zero prep and was an idiot for rushing into the LSAT in the first place - but it was uncomfortable, so I emailed LSAC about it just so they would hopefully pick another building for the next time.

They took my email as a formal complaint (oops) and said they would look into it. A couple of days before the scores came out they sent me an email response letting me know that the reason there was no air was because UDC always turned the air off in that building on the weekends (presumably because they don't ever have anyone there on Saturday, and they just overlooked the fact that there would be LSAT takers that weekend). I was given the option of keeping my score or having the score waived the score completely, so it wouldn't have shown up on my record at all, and I would not lose my fee waiver; had I paid they would have given me a credit so that I could put that payment toward my next registration. I think the very next day the scores came out and my score was held because it didn't get resolved in time to get my score out on schedule. I got it a couple of days later. I don't know if others in my room complained because I didn't talk to anyone that day but I kind of got the feeling that at least a few others must have.

Obviously our situation was not nearly as bad as yours, but that just lets you know that if I got the option to waive my score just for a stuffy room then you guys definitely will, provided they don't invalidate the exam completely. If they do invalidate it, NONE of you will have that test show up on your record at all, they'll waive it for all of you. You probably know that, though, and this unfortunately will not be much comfort for those like you who ultimately weren't that phased by it on the next two sections and wanted to finish their apps before the holidays. Hopefully they will let you choose for yourself. Regardless, be prepared for your wait to likely take a day or a few longer than the rest of us.

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lakers3peat
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby lakers3peat » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:41 pm

Jeffort wrote:
anthony55 wrote:

Grow up, stop whining and stop trying to blame others for mistakes students make because they didn't read-up and properly prepare. You are trying to get into law school to become a lawyer and enter the real world. Please act like an adult and realize that the law is all about rules and following/applying/enforcing them. It's not like high school or undergrad where rules and regulations are frequently treated merely as suggestions.

.



+1

holy crap people know how to complain about EVERYTHING

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cynthia rose
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby cynthia rose » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:44 pm

^Um, no.

a) When you do click that link on LSAC's page there is an unacceptable picture marked "Background Not Plain" because the person is standing in front of some sort of painting or picture. But there is not one unacceptable picture that mentions not having a white or neutral colored background or not being a "passport" photo.

b) And I also agree that the page with the examples of what is an appropriate/inappropriate photo isn't necessarily easy to find. I stumbled on it completely by accident myself, only because it was mentioned in the LSAC reminder alert they emailed to me three times in the two days before the test. I almost didn't bother to click it because they had just stated in plain, easily understandable language what they require - and the phrases "passport" and "white or neutral colored background" aren't anywhere in the instructions. So no, it's actually NOT stipulated in the rules nor is it illustrated with pictures. That proctor was overreaching.

Now that I think about it, I probably lucked out big time by having nice proctors because I know there are some anal, power-trippy ones out there that would have tried to dismiss me because they thought my picture was too small (it was a 1x1 and looked pretty lonely centered in that 2x2 box) or because my background was not "plain" enough for them (I took it in front off a white door, but you can tell it's a door and not a wall). If the background color was that important to them they would have said those exact words in the rules.

Now if it was someone who showed up with a picture of poor quality, of the wrong side, not labeled on the back, or stapled rather than glued or taped to the ticket, then I would not feel sorry for them. Likewise, the people who show up on test day with nothing but their ticket, ID, and one mechanical pencil, or the ones who end up outing themselves by asking what to do with their cell phones...those are the ones I have NO sympathy for. These rules are plainly stated and presented multiple times to us. A turned-off cell phone or mechanical pencil ultimately does no harm, but IMO they deserve dismissal just based on natural selection. If you cannot be bothered to read all the rules that come with your ticket and multiple reminders who would reasonably expect that you'll do any amount of proper reading in law school?
Last edited by cynthia rose on Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jeffort
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby Jeffort » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:50 pm

anthony55 wrote:
Jeffort wrote:
anthony55 wrote:...Though my friend's photo was clear and showed her face, the background was not white or neutral colored...


What's worse, is after my friend read the proctor the rules from the LSAC instructions, the proctor continued to censure students for not attaching "passport photos", even expelling some students from the testing center (ones who didn't fight back like my friend).

...but to throw kids out of the test because of the background color in their photo, when that isn't even stipulated in the rules, seems absurd.


Uhmm, it is stipulated in the rules and even illustrated with pictures so you don't have to read a lot of text.

http://www.lsac.org/JD/LSAT/photo-requirements.asp

The only thing missing from the day of test instructions http://www.lsac.org/JD/LSAT/day-of-test.asp is text that says something like 'passport type photograph'.

My guess is that for now LSAC probably decided not to include such text because, in order to make it EASY for test takers (god forbid!), they currently allow pictures printed on non-photo quality paper (on normal printer paper is OK, even in black and white is OK in case you don't have access to a color printer) so that you can do it on the cheap yourself at home, whereas passport photos have to be 2 X 2 on photo paper (for the LSAT it can be anywhere from 1 X 1 inches to 2 X 2 inches).

Grow up, stop whining and stop trying to blame others for mistakes students make because they didn't read-up and properly prepare. You are trying to get into law school to become a lawyer and enter the real world. Please act like an adult and realize that the law is all about rules and following/applying/enforcing them. It's not like high school or undergrad where rules and regulations are frequently treated merely as suggestions.

.


That would be fine -- my friend even said, I would be okay with this "rule" if it was actually IN the rules -- except that in all of the text, including in the (long) instructions/rules that LSAC sends you with your admission ticket which you print out and read, it stipulates nothing about the background color of your photo. Just about the size, clarity, etc. Without digging around on the LSAC website, one would not find that page with all of those sample photos of what's right/wrong. If they want test takers to only attach photos with white/neutral backgrounds, they should add that to the section of test day instructions under "photo requirement" that they send to each test taker.


If you attend law school you are really going to hate the legal research class and everything thereafter starting first semester of being a 1L. You may even end up trying to sue somebody in order to ban footnotes as well as staging a 'burn the blue books' protest. Of course, if you do those things you will promptly be laughed at and escorted away.

You should do some research about what 'a day in the life' of being in law school entails as well as about what lawyers spend most of their working time doing. Hint, it's not anywhere close to how it is depicted on TV shows like Suits, Law and Order, Harry's Law, CSI, etc. The really old show Paper Chase was properly titled.

If you are frustrated by reading and sorting through the few pages of LSAC instructions/rules, just for drill give this a read to get a taste of the type of material you will be spending all waking hours reading and sorting through while in law school: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-10245.pdf

.

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cynthia rose
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby cynthia rose » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:55 pm

So we're going to completely ignore the fact that I just pointed out that background color/being a passport photo isn't mentioned anywhere in LSAC's rules whether you look at the pictures or not (and the proctor was trying to dismiss people on these two things). Okay.

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thelong
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Re: LSAT Proctor Issue - Advice Needed

Postby thelong » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:08 pm

In response to the OP:

My proctors called time five minutes early on the first section. I sent a written complaint to LSAC once I got home. Their response was that they would put my file on hold while they investigated the issue and would send me a written response (no timeframe stated) at which time I would have the option of canceling if I so chose.

I'll let you know how this pans out once I hear back.




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