OCT 2011 Experimental Section

dachshund
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby dachshund » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:55 am

Does anyone remember a question about ants on stilts? It would help me figure out which section was experimental. I had LR LG LR LR RC. Pretty sure the the LR breakdown was 25 26 and 25.

Thanks!

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YaSvoboden
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby YaSvoboden » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:06 am

dachshund wrote:Does anyone remember a question about ants on stilts? It would help me figure out which section was experimental. I had LR LG LR LR RC. Pretty sure the the LR breakdown was 25 26 and 25.

Thanks!


I had 3 lr, so I can't help, but yes and that visual had me laughing.

Trequartista
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby Trequartista » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:45 am

Anyone have RC LR LG LR LG?

I had the Ocean/Ice cap LG but I didn't have the bikes/ambassadors one. I remember something about Visiting Areas/Operating Area in the 5th LG. I did really well on the first LG but bombed the second one. Is there any way the second one could be an experimental? I thought it was really difficult.

z0rk
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby z0rk » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:20 am

BarcaCrossesTheAlps wrote:Anyway, I'm not looking to get a 170+. All I I want is a 160+. So, that means I can miss about 30 questions, right?


If you were looking for some validation with this question I'm sorry to inform you that you are not entirely right. The number of questions you can miss and still score above a 160 depends on how the raw score conversion scale is distributed. This link contains the conversion charts for the last 9 tests: http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/424/ra ... v5563a.png . As you can see, its not so cut and dry as the distributions change according to each test.

kindplus
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby kindplus » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:22 am

pontificvsmaximvs said:
I'm pretty sure that was the real one.


What leads you to believe that was the real one?

anewaphorist
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby anewaphorist » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:31 am

LR1 (25), LG (23), LR2 (26), LR3 (26), RC (27)

I'm hoping LR2 was experimental, the third game in the LG section kind of owned me, should have taken more time to make inferences in the beginning. Hopefully I contained the damage and kept it at -4 or better...:/ All the other sections, except for LR2 (experimental please!!), were extremely easy IMHO. Or maybe my Saturday night of debauchery numbed the sting of this bitch, and I am just way off base...

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BarcaCrossesTheAlps
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby BarcaCrossesTheAlps » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:17 am

z0rk wrote:
BarcaCrossesTheAlps wrote:Anyway, I'm not looking to get a 170+. All I I want is a 160+. So, that means I can miss about 30 questions, right?


If you were looking for some validation with this question I'm sorry to inform you that you are not entirely right. The number of questions you can miss and still score above a 160 depends on how the raw score conversion scale is distributed. This link contains the conversion charts for the last 9 tests: http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/424/ra ... v5563a.png . As you can see, its not so cut and dry as the distributions change according to each test.


Thanks for the reply! This is interesting.

iamright
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby iamright » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:02 pm

For what it's worth, section 3 HAD to be experimental. Since old LSAT tests only have 1 section and always the same section, as experimental, regardless of different variations, here is my reasoning. Whether it was LR LG [LR LR] RC - section 3 would make sense. Sec. 1 could also work, but take this into consideration: for those that had RC as section 3&4, experimental HAS TO BE one of these sections;therefore, sec. 3 would again make sense. It can't be section 4 and LSAT can't have one section as experimental on one test and another section as experimental on a different test.

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nygrrrl
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:06 pm

Good morning, all - happy Day After LSAT Day.
Just a quick reminder of our policy on discussing the test:
chup wrote:PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: We've given repeated warnings about discussing specifics of the test. That includes strategies, specific answers, types of games, the distribution of answers across the tests, and soliciting PMs to discuss these things off the boards (and this is not an all-inclusive list). If you have done anything like that, I strongly suggest you edit your posts now, because if we find them when reviewing the thread (which I'm starting to do), we will give you a 1-day ban.


Also, if you see a response that is questionable? DO NOT quote it. Thank you.

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qbt1990
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby qbt1990 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:18 pm

@iamright, you are not correct. It has been confirmed that someone had their experimental reading comp section 4th, and several people had their LR experimentals fourth. The experimental section does not need to be in the same place every time, it used to be this way before June 2007 but now anyone can have any section in any location within the test.

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kingjones59
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby kingjones59 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:28 pm

qbt1990 wrote:@iamright, you are not correct. It has been confirmed that someone had their experimental reading comp section 4th, and several people had their LR experimentals fourth. The experimental section does not need to be in the same place every time, it used to be this way before June 2007 but now anyone can have any section in any location within the test.



Show me proof that it has been "confirmed" that someone had their experimental RC fourth. If your going to go around spreading this then prove it.

Also, I agree with the fact that the LSAT has had their experimental the same section always, and it seems that is pivotal for the fairness of the test. What I do not understand though is that I had LR (25) LG (23) LR (26) LR (25) RC (27) so my third section could not be experimental because that would only equal 100 questions, and you guys with LG/RC experimental had 101 questions right?

Also, people are talking about LR questions on here that I know I did not have, which makes me wonder if LSAT is using multiple experimentals to make it tougher to decipher which one is experimental....

iamright
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby iamright » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:37 pm

I'm pretty sure I had the exact same format as the above post and hope that the 1st LR was experimental. My earlier reasoning was based off of all other posts. I will assume that no one, including myself, knows anything about the experimental section, except for the fact that my exp was a LR. I guess we'll all have to wait a few weeks to confirm. GO SKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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qbt1990
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby qbt1990 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:49 pm

kingjones59 wrote:
qbt1990 wrote:@iamright, you are not correct. It has been confirmed that someone had their experimental reading comp section 4th, and several people had their LR experimentals fourth. The experimental section does not need to be in the same place every time, it used to be this way before June 2007 but now anyone can have any section in any location within the test.



Show me proof that it has been "confirmed" that someone had their experimental RC fourth. If your going to go around spreading this then prove it.

Also, I agree with the fact that the LSAT has had their experimental the same section always, and it seems that is pivotal for the fairness of the test. What I do not understand though is that I had LR (25) LG (23) LR (26) LR (25) RC (27) so my third section could not be experimental because that would only equal 100 questions, and you guys with LG/RC experimental had 101 questions right?

Also, people are talking about LR questions on here that I know I did not have, which makes me wonder if LSAT is using multiple experimentals to make it tougher to decipher which one is experimental....



Read this thread, someone in there said his experimental reading comp was 4th. And he posted a huge paragraph about it later as well that I can't seem to find. http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=167355

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rich_4
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby rich_4 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:26 pm

anewaphorist wrote:LR1 (25), LG (23), LR2 (26), LR3 (26), RC (27)

I'm hoping LR2 was experimental, the third game in the LG section kind of owned me, should have taken more time to make inferences in the beginning. Hopefully I contained the damage and kept it at -4 or better...:/ All the other sections, except for LR2 (experimental please!!), were extremely easy IMHO. Or maybe my Saturday night of debauchery numbed the sting of this bitch, and I am just way off base...



This. I went LR/LG/LR/LR/RC and I thought the first LR was easy and the second (3rd section) was noticeably more difficult... a lot of weird questions and long parallel reasoning.

bt53
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby bt53 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:35 pm

This is my theory, make of it what you will

One group of people had

lr 25(exp) lr 26 lr 25

and another had

lr 25 lr 26 (exp) lr 26

neuroticjew
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby neuroticjew » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:49 pm

bt53 wrote:This is my theory, make of it what you will

One group of people had

lr 25(exp) lr 26 lr 25

and another had

lr 25 lr 26 (exp) lr 26


Nope. I had LR 25 LR 26 LR 25 and I'm almost positive the first one was real.

barnum
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby barnum » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:21 pm

Ok, let me try to chime in here to clear up the confusion. This may get a bit long, but I promise worth the read.
On every LSAT test since 1991, the experimental has been in the first three sections. As someone already posted the link to Powerscore, it is also true that up until 2007, that at any given administration the experimental was also at the same time for every test taker, such that there were always two forms of the exam. Each exam had a scored LR before the break and one after the break, and then either the scored games before and RC after or vice versa. Also, the LR before the break was the same for everybody and the LR after the break was the same for everybody. So for example, the two forms might have been
Form A: LR Games Exp RC LR
Form B: Games LR Exp LR RC
This meant that when scored sections were occurring, two different sections would be getting administered. As in the example above, during section 1, half the people would be taking the first LR section, and half would be taking the scored games section. This allowed LSAC to theoretically make sure that the person sitting to your left and/or right were working on a different section in case you were to look at your neighbor’s exam. Since, LSAC tests all kinds of sections during the experimental section, this would mean that during the experimental section, people in the room could be working on all three sections. People started to realize this, and used it to figure out while they were working on the section. If a quick glance around the room allowed you to see all three types of sections being tested, you knew that you were on the experimental. This necessitated the change in 2007 that there are now two different times that the experimental are given.
However, the reason for having everybody take the two scored sections before the break and the same two scored sections after the break is that so if people talk during the break all they could discuss is questions that have already been seen by everyone, and not any questions yet to be seen. Although, it is against the rules to discuss the questions at the break, LSAC is realistic and realizes it could easily occur. This also means that the reason the experimental is always in the first three allows them to do this. If one person had the experimental after the break, then he/she would have already seen three scored sections. This means that during the break he/she would have seen a section that another test-taker might not yet have seen and could give away hints (accidentally or on purpose) to questions that are still coming. So although, LSAC has never officially stated a policy that the experimental will always be in the first three, to change this would be extremely doubtful as it would compromise the integrity of the exam.
Clearly, the LSAT is a mind-numbing experience and even shortly after an exam people’s recollections can be spotty. Trying to remember where a person saw one question out of 76 logical reasoning questions is likely to be inaccurate and far more likely an explanation then that LSAC decided to make section 4 experimental for some individuals.

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zdamico
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby zdamico » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:18 am

barnum wrote:Ok, let me try to chime in here to clear up the confusion. This may get a bit long, but I promise worth the read.
On every LSAT test since 1991, the experimental has been in the first three sections. As someone already posted the link to Powerscore, it is also true that up until 2007, that at any given administration the experimental was also at the same time for every test taker, such that there were always two forms of the exam. Each exam had a scored LR before the break and one after the break, and then either the scored games before and RC after or vice versa. Also, the LR before the break was the same for everybody and the LR after the break was the same for everybody. So for example, the two forms might have been
Form A: LR Games Exp RC LR
Form B: Games LR Exp LR RC
This meant that when scored sections were occurring, two different sections would be getting administered. As in the example above, during section 1, half the people would be taking the first LR section, and half would be taking the scored games section. This allowed LSAC to theoretically make sure that the person sitting to your left and/or right were working on a different section in case you were to look at your neighbor’s exam. Since, LSAC tests all kinds of sections during the experimental section, this would mean that during the experimental section, people in the room could be working on all three sections. People started to realize this, and used it to figure out while they were working on the section. If a quick glance around the room allowed you to see all three types of sections being tested, you knew that you were on the experimental. This necessitated the change in 2007 that there are now two different times that the experimental are given.
However, the reason for having everybody take the two scored sections before the break and the same two scored sections after the break is that so if people talk during the break all they could discuss is questions that have already been seen by everyone, and not any questions yet to be seen. Although, it is against the rules to discuss the questions at the break, LSAC is realistic and realizes it could easily occur. This also means that the reason the experimental is always in the first three allows them to do this. If one person had the experimental after the break, then he/she would have already seen three scored sections. This means that during the break he/she would have seen a section that another test-taker might not yet have seen and could give away hints (accidentally or on purpose) to questions that are still coming. So although, LSAC has never officially stated a policy that the experimental will always be in the first three, to change this would be extremely doubtful as it would compromise the integrity of the exam.
Clearly, the LSAT is a mind-numbing experience and even shortly after an exam people’s recollections can be spotty. Trying to remember where a person saw one question out of 76 logical reasoning questions is likely to be inaccurate and far more likely an explanation then that LSAC decided to make section 4 experimental for some individuals.


Half the people had the fourth section LR with 25 questions, half with 26. This has been backed up by at least like 10 people for each amount, so I'd say its fairly reliable. If the both these sections were scored, that means some people had questions before the break that others had after. Not saying it means that the fourth section was experimental, just shows you can't really use your logic to say it wasn't.

Morkie2500
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby Morkie2500 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:41 am

Alzheimers. Without being specific regarding the substantive nature of the question (i.e. posting something that enrages the obsequious, LSAC-worshiping "moderators"), can someone who only had two LR's tell me whether or not they encountered this problem? Many thanks.

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jwalsh16
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby jwalsh16 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:47 am

I only had two LR and one had that particular disease you speak of

3FLryan
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby 3FLryan » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:56 am

My experimental was section 3 - RC. Had a BRUTAL comparative section. Was basically grasping at straws and praying it was experimental - was only able to skim the 4th passage and refer back to it while in high-alert-guessing-mode. Went in to break telling myself it was the experimental section - lo and behold, RC for section 4. At least something worked out.

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qbt1990
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby qbt1990 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:28 am

Ughhhh I just heard from my instructor that apparently the third section was the experimental, for everyone. I'm so irritated the 3LR people STILL don't know for sure :(

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zdamico
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby zdamico » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:49 am

qbt1990 wrote:Ughhhh I just heard from my instructor that apparently the third section was the experimental, for everyone. I'm so irritated the 3LR people STILL don't know for sure :(


Not possible? My LRs went 25 26 25, and the 26 was the third section, with people with only 2 LRs saying they had a 26 and a 25.

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3v3ryth1ng
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby 3v3ryth1ng » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:11 am

3FLryan wrote:My experimental was section 3 - RC. Had a BRUTAL comparative section. Was basically grasping at straws and praying it was experimental - was only able to skim the 4th passage and refer back to it while in high-alert-guessing-mode. Went in to break telling myself it was the experimental section - lo and behold, RC for section 4. At least something worked out.


Which topics came up on your experimental section? I've heard about dancing bees thus far.
My 1 and only RC was Mexican proverbs and Dostoevsky.

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3v3ryth1ng
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Re: OCT 2011 Experimental Section

Postby 3v3ryth1ng » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:15 am

Trequartista wrote:Anyone have RC LR LG LR LG?

I had the Ocean/Ice cap LG but I didn't have the bikes/ambassadors one. I remember something about Visiting Areas/Operating Area in the 5th LG. I did really well on the first LG but bombed the second one. Is there any way the second one could be an experimental? I thought it was really difficult.


If you don't remember having bikes/ambassadors, do you remember books on a shelf/parking spaces?

I had one LG (bikes/ambassadors/parking spaces/books on a shelf).




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