Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

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minnbills
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby minnbills » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:56 pm

Not really. I just find it ridiculous that so many others came in here to take shots at the OP for thinking that a typical Yale undergrad should be scoring higher than 150 something. The OP comes off pretentious and naive, sure, but his assailants come off looking petulant and insecure. And, of course, I come out looking like a docuhe. But I'm still working on that one.


I think it has more to do with the "I'm from Yale so why am I not scoring higher" vibe than just "yale people should be scoring higher."

When somebody says something questionable, you can't fault others for calling him out.

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glucose101
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby glucose101 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:07 pm

minnbills wrote:
Not really. I just find it ridiculous that so many others came in here to take shots at the OP for thinking that a typical Yale undergrad should be scoring higher than 150 something. The OP comes off pretentious and naive, sure, but his assailants come off looking petulant and insecure. And, of course, I come out looking like a docuhe. But I'm still working on that one.


I think it has more to do with the "I'm from Yale so why am I not scoring higher" vibe than just "yale people should be scoring higher."

When somebody says something questionable, you can't fault others for calling him out.


Although I think barber's going at it from a bad angle, and I know that the OP wasn't necessarily trying to come off as pretentious, why did he have to include the fact that he went to Yale? Like, no one cares. If you're scoring in the 150s, you're just someone scoring in the 150s. It isn't like because he went to Yale that he should be doing better.

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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby TheFriendlyBarber » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:10 pm

minnbills wrote:
Not really. I just find it ridiculous that so many others came in here to take shots at the OP for thinking that a typical Yale undergrad should be scoring higher than 150 something. The OP comes off pretentious and naive, sure, but his assailants come off looking petulant and insecure. And, of course, I come out looking like a docuhe. But I'm still working on that one.


I think it has more to do with the "I'm from Yale so why am I not scoring higher" vibe than just "yale people should be scoring higher."

When somebody says something questionable, you can't fault others for calling him out.


This makes more sense. Reading the title of the post again, it does appear that he/she is shocked to be scoring in the 150s specifically because he's a Yalie. So, on second thought, the pitchforks and torches probably were well deserved. Sorry for being a douche.

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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby ihhwap1 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:36 pm

TheFriendlyBarber wrote:
minnbills wrote:
Not really. I just find it ridiculous that so many others came in here to take shots at the OP for thinking that a typical Yale undergrad should be scoring higher than 150 something. The OP comes off pretentious and naive, sure, but his assailants come off looking petulant and insecure. And, of course, I come out looking like a docuhe. But I'm still working on that one.


I think it has more to do with the "I'm from Yale so why am I not scoring higher" vibe than just "yale people should be scoring higher."

When somebody says something questionable, you can't fault others for calling him out.


This makes more sense. Reading the title of the post again, it does appear that he/she is shocked to be scoring in the 150s specifically because he's a Yalie. So, on second thought, the pitchforks and torches probably were well deserved. Sorry for being a douche.

I'm not seeing a different between "I'm from Yale so why am I not scoring higher" vs. "yale people should be scoring higher." It seems to me that the latter is an assumption made by the former, which is I found the OP to be pretentious indeed.

If the Yale undergrad isn't relevant to his LSAT struggles, then why bother citing it at all? :roll:

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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby TheFriendlyBarber » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:26 am

ihhwap1 wrote:
TheFriendlyBarber wrote:
minnbills wrote:
Not really. I just find it ridiculous that so many others came in here to take shots at the OP for thinking that a typical Yale undergrad should be scoring higher than 150 something. The OP comes off pretentious and naive, sure, but his assailants come off looking petulant and insecure. And, of course, I come out looking like a docuhe. But I'm still working on that one.


I think it has more to do with the "I'm from Yale so why am I not scoring higher" vibe than just "yale people should be scoring higher."

When somebody says something questionable, you can't fault others for calling him out.


This makes more sense. Reading the title of the post again, it does appear that he/she is shocked to be scoring in the 150s specifically because he's a Yalie. So, on second thought, the pitchforks and torches probably were well deserved. Sorry for being a douche.


I'm not seeing a different between "I'm from Yale so why am I not scoring higher" vs. "yale people should be scoring higher." It seems to me that the latter is an assumption made by the former, which is I found the OP to be pretentious indeed.

If the Yale undergrad isn't relevant to his LSAT struggles, then why bother citing it at all? :roll:


Syllogistically, these two are all but identical. I suppose it's a matter of phrasing. The thought "Yalies average a 165 on the LSAT. I'm an average Yalie, so I'm surprised to be scoring in the 150s" certainly comes across as less pretentious than one formed along the lines of "I'm from Yale. Yale people are smart. All smart people score better than 150. How can it be that I'm not scoring better than a 150?!" Having some statistical baking takes away a good deal of the pretension (for me, at least). (Though I'm not saying the OP gave any such support).

Also, if you take a second look, the OP is surprised to be scoring in the 150s not so much because he's from Yale per se, but because he's "a good test taker and scored in the high 2200s on the SAT after a month of study." Given a lack of exposure to the LSAT, is it that much of a stretch to assume that the skills that resulted in high SAT performance (and general high test-taking performance) will allow one to have success on the LSAT? And if people that generally get into schools like Yale do so based in large part on their test-taking abilities and performance (both on the SAT and otherwise), is it all that egregious (pretentious?) to assume that a typical Yale student will enjoy success on the LSAT?

Look, I don't think the OP is all that humble, but he/she's probably not as pretentious as many on here seem to believe. Uninformed and naive? Certainly. And all this "Oh my gosh how can a Yale person ever be bad at something????" nonsense is just that--and it reeks of insecurity every bit as much as the OP's comments reek of pretension.

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paratactical
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby paratactical » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:25 am

So jokes aren't your thing, I take it?

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kwu
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby kwu » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:42 am

No worries. I'm an undergrad at "a small college in Western Massachusetts"* and I'm expecting < 151 come 1 October (because I'm a lazy, entitled diversity admit).

Just do HMS, bro.

Seriously, though, apply next cycle.

*The last time I tried to pull this off, I almost got my head chewed off by an Asian Tiger Mom...
Last edited by kwu on Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

kahechsof
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby kahechsof » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:46 am

kwu wrote:No worries. I'm an undergrad at "a small college in Western Massachusetts"* and I'm expecting < 151 come 1 October.

Just do HMS, bro.

*The last time I tried to pull this off, I almost got my head chewed off by an Asian Tiger Mom...


Wha?
(By which I mean, I'm not sure I get the joke here, but if you mean Harvard, which is in eastern massachusetts, then I understand the <151)

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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby TheFriendlyBarber » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:58 pm

kahechsof wrote:
kwu wrote:No worries. I'm an undergrad at "a small college in Western Massachusetts"* and I'm expecting < 151 come 1 October.

Just do HMS, bro.

*The last time I tried to pull this off, I almost got my head chewed off by an Asian Tiger Mom...


Wha?
(By which I mean, I'm not sure I get the joke here, but if you mean Harvard, which is in eastern massachusetts, then I understand the <151)


I think he means Williams College. And if so, "a small college in Western Massachusetts" doesn't give off the fake humility vibe at all--definitely not in the same way that would "a small school in New Haven"--so I'm not sure what he was getting at.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:04 pm

TheFriendlyBarber wrote:
ihhwap1 wrote:
TheFriendlyBarber wrote:
This makes more sense. Reading the title of the post again, it does appear that he/she is shocked to be scoring in the 150s specifically because he's a Yalie. So, on second thought, the pitchforks and torches probably were well deserved. Sorry for being a douche.


I'm not seeing a different between "I'm from Yale so why am I not scoring higher" vs. "yale people should be scoring higher." It seems to me that the latter is an assumption made by the former, which is I found the OP to be pretentious indeed.

If the Yale undergrad isn't relevant to his LSAT struggles, then why bother citing it at all? :roll:


Syllogistically, these two are all but identical. I suppose it's a matter of phrasing. The thought "Yalies average a 165 on the LSAT. I'm an average Yalie, so I'm surprised to be scoring in the 150s" certainly comes across as less pretentious than one formed along the lines of "I'm from Yale. Yale people are smart. All smart people score better than 150. How can it be that I'm not scoring better than a 150?!" Having some statistical baking takes away a good deal of the pretension (for me, at least). (Though I'm not saying the OP gave any such support).

Also, if you take a second look, the OP is surprised to be scoring in the 150s not so much because he's from Yale per se, but because he's "a good test taker and scored in the high 2200s on the SAT after a month of study." Given a lack of exposure to the LSAT, is it that much of a stretch to assume that the skills that resulted in high SAT performance (and general high test-taking performance) will allow one to have success on the LSAT? And if people that generally get into schools like Yale do so based in large part on their test-taking abilities and performance (both on the SAT and otherwise), is it all that egregious (pretentious?) to assume that a typical Yale student will enjoy success on the LSAT?

Look, I don't think the OP is all that humble, but he/she's probably not as pretentious as many on here seem to believe. Uninformed and naive? Certainly. And all this "Oh my gosh how can a Yale person ever be bad at something????" nonsense is just that--and it reeks of insecurity every bit as much as the OP's comments reek of pretension.

You just said "Syllogistically" and you're calling other people pretentious :roll:

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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby TheFriendlyBarber » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:07 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
You just said "Syllogistically" and you're calling other people pretentious :roll:


Yes, I said "syllogistically." No, I'm not calling other people pretentious. In fact, I'm scolding other people for doing so.
Last edited by TheFriendlyBarber on Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:08 pm

Mix up. My bad

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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby FantasticMrFox » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:30 pm

TheFriendlyBarber wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
You just said "Syllogistically" and you're calling other people pretentious :roll:


Yes, I said "syllogistically." No, I'm not calling other people pretentious. In fact, I'm scolding other people for doing so.

Your avatar is kind of creepy..."friendly" huh :lol:

OP: I don't get why you registered for LSAT when you obviously weren't satisfied with your PT scores...you should have taken some time off or something to study more intensively. Take a logic class, as well.

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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:59 pm

FantasticMrFox wrote:
TheFriendlyBarber wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
You just said "Syllogistically" and you're calling other people pretentious :roll:


Yes, I said "syllogistically." No, I'm not calling other people pretentious. In fact, I'm scolding other people for doing so.

Your avatar is kind of creepy..."friendly" huh :lol:

OP: I don't get why you registered for LSAT when you obviously weren't satisfied with your PT scores...you should have taken some time off or something to study more intensively. Take a logic class, as well.

:?

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amc987
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby amc987 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:16 am

OP, I was in a very similar situation. I went to HYP undergrad, did well on my SATs (2300+), and I struggled like hell on the LSAT. I have no idea why, but it just seemed like a foreign way of thinking to me. I had never taken a formal logic class, I took 1 philosophy class in college, and I had never seen anything like the logic games section. Ever. With a lot of hard work, I ended up improving from a 155 diagnostic to a 169 on the June LSAT. Unfortunately I just missed the 170s (sea floors, I'll hate you forever), but I ended up much better than I started.

I know that this must be incredibly frustrating to you. You're undoubtedly surrounded by people who are gifted test takers, and whose brains just magically think the way the LSAT requires you to think. Some of my friends at school studied for less than a month and managed to get 178s and 179s on the test their first time around. Still, the 165 average LSAT score for Yale students should tell you that high academic achievement doesn't necessarily correlate with astronomically high LSAT scores. There are extremely smart people who have to work very hard in order to end up with scores that are mediocre in comparison to their other scholastic achievements. For example, one of my friends from school who ended up winning a Rhodes Scholarship had to bust his ass to barely break into the 170s. So, I think first and foremost, you need to divest yourself of the notion that your previous academic work makes you entitled to a high LSAT score. It doesn't. That realization helped me stop feeling so bad that the test was difficult for me to do, and randos from University of Phoenix Online could do it in their sleep. Approach the LSAT as it's own thing. It's no more a harbinger of intellectual ability than anything else.

That said, if you're scoring in the 150s consistently after several months of work, you have weaknesses you need to address. I don't know what they are, but I think your first step is to figure out what's keeping you from improving the way you want to. Is LG really hard for you? Do you run out of time on RC? Do you have trouble isolating the premises and conclusions in LR? Once you've figured out what the problem is you need to develop a strategy to solve those problems so you can start moving closer to a score you'd like to get on the test. That might mean getting different books, using a different prep class, etc. Whatever the problem is, I'm guessing you'll have to get down in the trenches. Drill yourself on your weaker areas until you hate the LSAT, law school and logical thinking in general, take a break, and continue drilling. Rinse and repeat.

Good luck! FWIW, I think you can improve a lot as long as you have a concrete plan of attack. And, hey, if I could get out of the 150s, you can too...

ETA: I just saw your problem is mostly with LR and somewhat with LG. What helped me most on LR was trying to learn the flawed methods of reasoning. If you can find the flaw in the argument, you can figure out what will strengthen it, weaken it, characterize the method of reasoning, determine the problem with the logic, parallel the logic, etc. The LSAT almost always attacks an argument at it's weak point. Conversely, it almost always tries to strengthen arguments where they're already vulnerable to attack. Identifying the premises and the conclusions was also key for me--make sure you aren't getting suckered into falling for subsidiary conclusions and other red herrings. For LG, try to figure out if there are any game types you're having an especially difficult time with, and practice those like there's no tomorrow. I didn't improve significantly on games until I started doing old sections as practice. There was something about getting into the 4 in 35 minutes or less rhythm for me. Maybe you're having a similar issue? Anyway, hope this helps a little bit.
Last edited by amc987 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby redsox » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:27 am

If you titled this thread "Scored in the high 2200s on the SAT and I can't score outside the 150s?!" instead, you would have avoided the racist flame, avoided the Yale jealousy, more accurately described the problem, and received some decent advice. Instead you decided to be a tool and tell everyone that you go to Yale for no good reason. Your judgement is shockingly bad.

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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby stratocophic » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:40 am

kwu wrote:No worries. I'm an undergrad at "a small college in Western Massachusetts"* and I'm expecting < 151 come 1 October (because I'm a lazy, entitled diversity admit).

Just do HMS, bro.

Seriously, though, apply next cycle.

*The last time I tried to pull this off, I almost got my head chewed off by an Asian Tiger Mom...

--ImageRemoved--

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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby TheFriendlyBarber » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:31 pm

redsox wrote:If you titled this thread "Scored in the high 2200s on the SAT and I can't score outside the 150s?!" instead, you would have avoided the racist flame, avoided the Yale jealousy, more accurately described the problem, and received some decent advice. Instead you decided to be a tool and tell everyone that you go to Yale for no good reason. Your judgement is shockingly bad.


True.

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Ocean64
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby Ocean64 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:36 pm

why is it that when people make a statement that's deemed "politically incorrect", they get banned and yelled at? shouldn't others try to weaken their argument instead of attacking them personally like on the LSAT?

being politically correct amounts to a censorship that no one else is allowed to speak against, or else they too will inherit the unjustified negative labels.

also...it is absolutely unfair to ban someone and then claim they were flamers, since they cannot answer or defend themselves or position.

i just wanted to put that out there, because censorship is a form of thought control that ought to be resisted by all who value their individuality.

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paratactical
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby paratactical » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:43 pm

Ocean64 wrote:why is it that when people make a statement that's deemed "politically incorrect", they get banned and yelled at? shouldn't others try to weaken their argument instead of attacking them personally like on the LSAT?

being politically correct amounts to a censorship that no one else is allowed to speak against, or else they too will inherit the unjustified negative labels.

also...it is absolutely unfair to ban someone and then claim they were flamers, since they cannot answer or defend themselves or position.

i just wanted to put that out there, because censorship is a form of thought control that ought to be resisted by all who value their individuality.

wut?

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kwais
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby kwais » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:44 pm

Ocean64 wrote:why is it that when people make a statement that's deemed "politically incorrect", they get banned and yelled at? shouldn't others try to weaken their argument instead of attacking them personally like on the LSAT?

being politically correct amounts to a censorship that no one else is allowed to speak against, or else they too will inherit the unjustified negative labels.

also...it is absolutely unfair to ban someone and then claim they were flamers, since they cannot answer or defend themselves or position.

i just wanted to put that out there, because censorship is a form of thought control that ought to be resisted by all who value their individuality.

keep fightin that fight man

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soj
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby soj » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:53 pm

Ocean64 wrote:why is it that when people make a statement that's deemed "politically incorrect", they get banned and yelled at? shouldn't others try to weaken their argument instead of attacking them personally like on the LSAT?

being politically correct amounts to a censorship that no one else is allowed to speak against, or else they too will inherit the unjustified negative labels.

also...it is absolutely unfair to ban someone and then claim they were flamers, since they cannot answer or defend themselves or position.

i just wanted to put that out there, because censorship is a form of thought control that ought to be resisted by all who value their individuality.

Aren't you the one who got butthurt about Sabbath LSAT administrations? :roll:

Nothing like TLS to bring out the big words and the faux outrage. :lol:

redsox wrote:the Yale jealousy

lol

HeavenWood
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:56 pm

Ocean64 wrote:why is it that when people make a statement that's deemed "politically incorrect", they get banned and yelled at? shouldn't others try to weaken their argument instead of attacking them personally like on the LSAT?

being politically correct amounts to a censorship that no one else is allowed to speak against, or else they too will inherit the unjustified negative labels.

also...it is absolutely unfair to ban someone and then claim they were flamers, since they cannot answer or defend themselves or position.

i just wanted to put that out there, because censorship is a form of thought control that ought to be resisted by all who value their individuality.

Better watch your step, boy. Lotta jooz in lawl skool.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=158454&p=4528574&hilit=#p4528574

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Ocean64
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby Ocean64 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:00 pm

soj wrote:Aren't you the one who got butthurt about Sabbath LSAT administrations? :roll:


i was the one wanting it to be open to everyone, even nonreligious people, without funny looks and harassment.

and no it wasn't me who was "buthurt" it was the "group" in discussion, because i wasn't being PC enough by speaking out.

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kwais
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Re: Yale Undergrad and I can't score outside the 150s?!

Postby kwais » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:05 pm

Ocean64 wrote:
soj wrote:Aren't you the one who got butthurt about Sabbath LSAT administrations? :roll:


i was the one wanting it to be open to everyone, even nonreligious people, without funny looks and harassment.

and no it wasn't me who was "buthurt" it was the "group" in discussion, because i wasn't being PC enough by speaking out.


get over the PC shit. You have confused "free speech" with "the right to have everyone agree with me". you think you are a revolutionary or something? you have some views and apparently the majority on here disagree with a lot of your views and then they express it. big fucking deal bro.




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