Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby LSAT Blog » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:39 am

TIKITEMBO wrote:
the real question is:
is test day experience worth having mediocre score on my record/ a cancellation? (provided i will have a late application, a previous absence and sub 3.5 UGPA)

i'm leaning towards no.


You know, I think this used to be the case, but with the (fairly) new ABA regulations requiring a school to report your highest score, I think more and more schools will care about your highest score, not your overall test takes and those scores that they wouldn't have to report.

Also, my feeling is that if I take only in December and don't do as well as I wanted, I will only have the February test for this cycle which puts me severely behind, some schools don't even take for the next cycle, and I would get at most two shots at taking the test for this cycle instead of 3.

Just my thoughts, but I feel like even not that great of a score can be made up for with a better score later and at least I have more opportunities to even take the test this way.



Just be careful because some of the top law schools do average or "consider" multiple scores.

Scroll down in this link for school-specific policies, and check the schools' websites for the latest info:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/retaking-the-lsat.html

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Easy-E
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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Easy-E » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:40 am

Ugh LSAC GPA came back a lower than expected. The whole business with counting classes I retook is really annoying, especially since I only received credit for it once..oh well.

3.1 GPA PTing around 163-165, seems like a retake is almost a definite, hopefully it's worth to still take it Saturday.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby aeiouy » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:41 am

Thanks for posting that, emarxnj. From reading that, I still reach the conclusion that your first score determines whether you're in or not, too bad if you couldn't get a good enough score the first time. Maybe I'm just pessimistic? It just seems like they would be doing a student a huge favor if they went back and reevaluated an applicant based on a new score. Or maybe I'm a mean person, because if I was an adcomm, I would say "Too bad, get your act together the first time. Better luck next cycle."

Of course, I'm relating it to situations where you're denied based on the first score, not waitlisted. For example, I'd like to go to UVA, but with mid to low 160s and 3.5 GPA, I will be denied. So no hope for there; I think I'll withdraw October and take December and focus on getting just one, but great score.

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Easy-E
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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Easy-E » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:42 am

LSAT Blog wrote:
TIKITEMBO wrote:
the real question is:
is test day experience worth having mediocre score on my record/ a cancellation? (provided i will have a late application, a previous absence and sub 3.5 UGPA)

i'm leaning towards no.


You know, I think this used to be the case, but with the (fairly) new ABA regulations requiring a school to report your highest score, I think more and more schools will care about your highest score, not your overall test takes and those scores that they wouldn't have to report.

Also, my feeling is that if I take only in December and don't do as well as I wanted, I will only have the February test for this cycle which puts me severely behind, some schools don't even take for the next cycle, and I would get at most two shots at taking the test for this cycle instead of 3.

Just my thoughts, but I feel like even not that great of a score can be made up for with a better score later and at least I have more opportunities to even take the test this way.



Just be careful because some of the top law schools do average or "consider" multiple scores.

Scroll down in this link for school-specific policies, and check the schools' websites for the latest info:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/retaking-the-lsat.html



I remember for checking for the majority of my target schools, but I'll review them, thanks.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Ocean64 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:50 am

aeiouy wrote:but with mid to low 160s and 3.5 GPA, I will be denied. So no hope for there; I think I'll withdraw October and take December and focus on getting just one, but great score.


ditto, in addition to needing $$ in my case.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Easy-E » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:00 am

Ocean64 wrote:
aeiouy wrote:but with mid to low 160s and 3.5 GPA, I will be denied. So no hope for there; I think I'll withdraw October and take December and focus on getting just one, but great score.


ditto, in addition to needing $$ in my case.



The withdraw option is tempting me now. I really can't get into any of my target schools if I perform at or below my current average. And yeah, $$ would be nice.

Can't find info on Fordham's policy on multiple LSAT, don't suppose anyone knows off the top of their head?

Edit: NM, they take highest. But they don't seem splitter friendly :(

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby SA1928 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:15 am

I am/was also signed up for taking the test in October, but I am currently practicing in the mid 160s and also decided it is probably best to withdraw and get my score to a place that I know will help me get into schools. Even if schools take the average score, if there is a large difference, like 5 or more points, typically they want some type of explanation it seems. I'm hoping to get into a T14 and I only have a little over a 3.5GPA, so I know applying late is going to hurt me...but I feel like applying earlier with say a 166 or something is going to hurt me more. I am going to boost my score into the mid 170s and hope that the decrease in applications this year will help my late application!

I also plan on sending all of my materials into most of the schools before the December LSAT scores come out, so that I can go complete pretty quickly. It looks like most of the scores come out much earlier than normal for December, so hopefully I can still get everything submitted before January 1st (although I am not banking on it). If you check the charts for when people were accepted, it seems like there were still a decent amount of people accepted - although it might be people that aren't splitters...which makes me nervous!

If this plan fails, then I guess I'll hope for better luck next year! This is my 2nd year out of undergrad, so I'll be going on 3 years by the time I would start school if I have to wait another cycle - but as someone else pointed out, the work experience can be helpful for getting a firm job...

What have you all decided to do?

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Easy-E » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:48 am

SA1928 wrote:I am/was also signed up for taking the test in October, but I am currently practicing in the mid 160s and also decided it is probably best to withdraw and get my score to a place that I know will help me get into schools. Even if schools take the average score, if there is a large difference, like 5 or more points, typically they want some type of explanation it seems. I'm hoping to get into a T14 and I only have a little over a 3.5GPA, so I know applying late is going to hurt me...but I feel like applying earlier with say a 166 or something is going to hurt me more. I am going to boost my score into the mid 170s and hope that the decrease in applications this year will help my late application!

I also plan on sending all of my materials into most of the schools before the December LSAT scores come out, so that I can go complete pretty quickly. It looks like most of the scores come out much earlier than normal for December, so hopefully I can still get everything submitted before January 1st (although I am not banking on it). If you check the charts for when people were accepted, it seems like there were still a decent amount of people accepted - although it might be people that aren't splitters...which makes me nervous!

If this plan fails, then I guess I'll hope for better luck next year! This is my 2nd year out of undergrad, so I'll be going on 3 years by the time I would start school if I have to wait another cycle - but as someone else pointed out, the work experience can be helpful for getting a firm job...

What have you all decided to do?



I'm on the fence as well, weighing between a lower, earlier score and a higher, later score. I guess the big factor is splitter-status. I have a full-time office job, so the option of waiting another cycle is also there, though I would really rather not spend another year out of school.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Eco » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:54 am

Look, take the test AND CANCEL IT RIGHT AFTER.

It will be good practice for when you do it in December. And aim for higher than 163 otherwise don't even bother with law school.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby TIKITEMBO » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:04 pm

.
Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby aeiouy » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:09 pm

Eco wrote:Look, take the test AND CANCEL IT RIGHT AFTER.


I'm going to have to disagree with that. You can simulate the real testing environment pretty easily and without cost - without taking the real thing. You can do this by yourself or by taking a free one administered by the numerous testing companies in your local area. I think if you can take the LSAT once, or even twice, and not have any cancellations on your report, you're better off.

Another thing is, it's kind of hard to gauge how well you did. I've seen so many people report back on their PT results here where they say "I felt good about this section, WTF" or "I thought I bombed it..-1? Cool." So you don't really know what you're doing to yourself by taking the real thing and canceling it.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Easy-E » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:44 pm

aeiouy wrote:
Eco wrote:Look, take the test AND CANCEL IT RIGHT AFTER.


I'm going to have to disagree with that. You can simulate the real testing environment pretty easily and without cost - without taking the real thing. You can do this by yourself or by taking a free one administered by the numerous testing companies in your local area. I think if you can take the LSAT once, or even twice, and not have any cancellations on your report, you're better off.

Another thing is, it's kind of hard to gauge how well you did. I've seen so many people report back on their PT results here where they say "I felt good about this section, WTF" or "I thought I bombed it..-1? Cool." So you don't really know what you're doing to yourself by taking the real thing and canceling it.



I guess it's just a good failsafe if you say, panic and run out of time or miss 2 whole games or something.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Eco » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:43 pm

^ I'm telling you, a fake test never feels the same as the real one. He has a good opportunity now. If he cancels now or after the test, it will still record that he cancelled a test. So he might as well go through the whole thing as a mega practice, and then cancel it after. I did that and now I'm in GW.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby SA1928 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:45 pm

(I also have an lsac fee waiver, so I'm not spending as much money on applications and I know not everyone has these. In that case, it's still good just to get everything ready and apply as soon as the December score is out if necessary).


I should say I have the LSAC fee waiver too...and they said if we withdraw by tomorrow, then we get to use the fee waiver on another test, so I was thinking I would withdraw from October, since I'm not feeling confident and take it in December and if I happen to bomb December, I still at least have another fee waiver available for another test. So I guess benefit of being able to use my waiver for another test made me decide to withdraw instead of take it for the experience and cancel, otherwise maybe I would do that.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby SA1928 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:46 pm

Eco wrote:^ I'm telling you, a fake test never feels the same as the real one. He has a good opportunity now. If he cancels now or after the test, it will still record that he cancelled a test. So he might as well go through the whole thing as a mega practice, and then cancel it after. I did that and now I'm in GW.


If he withdraws now, schools will never know that he withdrew from the October test. It only shows up on your report if you actually go to the test and then cancel or are absent entirely. If you withdraw by midnight tomorrow, then it never appears on your file.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby aeiouy » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:22 pm

SA1928 wrote:
Eco wrote:^ I'm telling you, a fake test never feels the same as the real one. He has a good opportunity now. If he cancels now or after the test, it will still record that he cancelled a test. So he might as well go through the whole thing as a mega practice, and then cancel it after. I did that and now I'm in GW.


If he withdraws now, schools will never know that he withdrew from the October test. It only shows up on your report if you actually go to the test and then cancel or are absent entirely. If you withdraw by midnight tomorrow, then it never appears on your file.


+1

I don't want people to have the wrong idea about canceled scores vs withdrawing. Big difference. The point I was trying to make was that I don't think you should go in to the test planning on canceling.

Note for those with fee waivers: When you withdraw, you just register for another date. You are not penalized and do not "lose" one of your two free LSAT administrations.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby calexhg88 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:12 pm

Hey everyone, I am in almost the exact situation as the author of this thread. My last 5 scores, have been: 168, 162, 171, 163, 163. I am aiming for Boalt. I have a GPA of 3.85 (from the University of Louisville however). I feel confident that I can get a 165 or so, which is a decent score. But like you guys, I´m pretty certain I can do a lot better. Wait? or take it and get in the first batch of applicants?

I decided to wait last night, so I cancelled the practice test I had planned to take this morning, but after reading some horrifying literature this afternoon about the stupidity of waiting until December, I´m having some serious doubts.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Easy-E » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:24 pm

calexhg88 wrote:Hey everyone, I am in almost the exact situation as the author of this thread. My last 5 scores, have been: 168, 162, 171, 163, 163. I am aiming for Boalt. I have a GPA of 3.85 (from the University of Louisville however). I feel confident that I can get a 165 or so, which is a decent score. But like you guys, I´m pretty certain I can do a lot better. Wait? or take it and get in the first batch of applicants?

I decided to wait last night, so I cancelled the practice test I had planned to take this morning, but after reading some horrifying literature this afternoon about the stupidity of waiting until December, I´m having some serious doubts.



Pretty sure you're UG school is pretty irrelevant, you have an excellent GPA.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby calexhg88 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:38 pm

emarxnj wrote:
calexhg88 wrote:Hey everyone, I am in almost the exact situation as the author of this thread. My last 5 scores, have been: 168, 162, 171, 163, 163. I am aiming for Boalt. I have a GPA of 3.85 (from the University of Louisville however). I feel confident that I can get a 165 or so, which is a decent score. But like you guys, I´m pretty certain I can do a lot better. Wait? or take it and get in the first batch of applicants?

I decided to wait last night, so I cancelled the practice test I had planned to take this morning, but after reading some horrifying literature this afternoon about the stupidity of waiting until December, I´m having some serious doubts.



Pretty sure you're UG school is pretty irrelevant, you have an excellent GPA.


Have you decided what you are going to do yet, emarxnk?

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Easy-E » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:50 pm

calexhg88 wrote:
emarxnj wrote:
calexhg88 wrote:Hey everyone, I am in almost the exact situation as the author of this thread. My last 5 scores, have been: 168, 162, 171, 163, 163. I am aiming for Boalt. I have a GPA of 3.85 (from the University of Louisville however). I feel confident that I can get a 165 or so, which is a decent score. But like you guys, I´m pretty certain I can do a lot better. Wait? or take it and get in the first batch of applicants?

I decided to wait last night, so I cancelled the practice test I had planned to take this morning, but after reading some horrifying literature this afternoon about the stupidity of waiting until December, I´m having some serious doubts.



Pretty sure you're UG school is pretty irrelevant, you have an excellent GPA.


Have you decided what you are going to do yet, emarxnk?



Well, I'm going to take the test Saturday. Hopefully I will have a revelation upon opening my testbook and score 5 points above my average, and apply early and happy. If my score is 165 or lower (3.1 GPA) I will most likely re-take in December. Annoying part is that I won't find out about my score until 3 weeks later, so do I start studying after about a week (need some time off), or just wait till I get the score. I'd be annoyed if I studied for two weeks for nothing, but then again, I think I'd get over it quick if I hit a score I'm happy with.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby aeiouy » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:07 pm

emarxnj wrote:Well, I'm going to take the test Saturday. Hopefully I will have a revelation upon opening my testbook and score 5 points above my average, and apply early and happy. If my score is 165 or lower (3.1 GPA) I will most likely re-take in December. Annoying part is that I won't find out about my score until 3 weeks later, so do I start studying after about a week (need some time off), or just wait till I get the score. I'd be annoyed if I studied for two weeks for nothing, but then again, I think I'd get over it quick if I hit a score I'm happy with.


If I were you, I'd start studying soon after. December is your last shot for this cycle, so I don't think it's wasted effort if you study for two weeks before finding out your October score. Because if it's not the score you want, you'll be happy you continued to study after October, but if you do get a score you're happy with, you can give a big "F U" to all your LSAT materials and celebrate. Two weeks isn't much to lose for something as important as getting into the school you want. :D

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby calexhg88 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:15 pm

I will probably retake unless I get a 175, which at this point is a couple points beyond my highest ever. I feel like this number is attainable given more time and practice, but not attainable at the present. Would it be pointless to take the October test then? Since, if I do get a 170, I´ll likely submit my application in full, and will have already received my decision by the time I receive my December score. Looking at it this way, December seems the far better option. Because I either use the October score and apply with it and receive my decision before the December test results become available (and therefore not useful at all), or I take it and receive the bad score and have it as a permanent bad mark on my record. the 175 that I want is attainable but I believe is still out of reach for the October test. LGs are perfect, but I still don´t get to a few on LR and one passage always messes me up in RC. Given a few more weeks I can resolve these issues but in 36 hours, I don´t know.

Advice? I know the 175 is a stretch and an assumption that is dangerous to make. I have scored a 171 though, and I did have to guess on 3 or 4, which is the 175 right there. I´m stressing over here!
Last edited by calexhg88 on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Easy-E » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:16 pm

aeiouy wrote:
emarxnj wrote:Well, I'm going to take the test Saturday. Hopefully I will have a revelation upon opening my testbook and score 5 points above my average, and apply early and happy. If my score is 165 or lower (3.1 GPA) I will most likely re-take in December. Annoying part is that I won't find out about my score until 3 weeks later, so do I start studying after about a week (need some time off), or just wait till I get the score. I'd be annoyed if I studied for two weeks for nothing, but then again, I think I'd get over it quick if I hit a score I'm happy with.


If I were you, I'd start studying soon after. December is your last shot for this cycle, so I don't think it's wasted effort if you study for two weeks before finding out your October score. Because if it's not the score you want, you'll be happy you continued to study after October, but if you do get a score you're happy with, you can give a big "F U" to all your LSAT materials and celebrate. Two weeks isn't much to lose for something as important as getting into the school you want. :D



This is what I figured. I'll probably take a week off just to unwind a bit and get my prep plan together. So starting from October 10th I'd have 7.5 weeks. I guess my plan is to review my prep books and drill LG/LR by types (plus RC sections) for 4 weeks, then use the next 3.5 weeks to do 10-11 of the newest PTs. Some of those will be re-takes, but after that much time they should still seem fresh enough. Hopefully none of this happens though :lol:

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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Easy-E » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:19 pm

calexhg88 wrote:I will probably retake unless I get a 175, which at this point is a couple points beyond my highest ever. I feel like this number is attainable given more time and practice, but not attainable at the present. Would it be pointless to take the October test then? Since, if I do get a 170, I´ll likely submit my application in full, and will have already received my decision by the time I receive my December score. Looking at it this way, December seems the far better option. Because I either use the October score and apply with it while it is not representative of my school level and receive my decision before the December test results become available and therefore not useful at all, or I take it and receive the bad score and have it as a permanent bad mark on my record. the 175 that I want is attainable but I believe is still out of reach for the October test. LGs are perfect, but I still don´t get to a few on LR and one passage always messes me up in RC. Given a few more weeks I can resolve these issues but in 36 hours, I don´t know.

Advice? I know the 175 is a stretch and an assumption that is dangerous to make. I have scored a 171 though, and I did have to guess on 3 or 4, which is the 175 right there. I´m stressing over here!


Most, but not all, schools only report your highest score. You might have to write an addendum to explain the point difference, and it also doesn't sound like you're going to really bomb the test. A score in the high 160s low 170s isn't really a "bad mark" on your record.

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Ocean64
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Re: Not ready for next week, cancel or just do it?

Postby Ocean64 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:38 pm

i have withdrawn and will do December instead. higher LSAT is necessary if i am to make going to law school worth my while, it's also a way of potentially saving lots of money. if some of you guys are still having hard time deciding, you could use this site for inspiration, cuz it works well for me:
third tier reality (dot) blogspot (dot) com (no spaces of course)

(TLS keeps blocking the URL...i wonder why)




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