Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

NightmanCometh
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Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby NightmanCometh » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:39 pm

Hi all,

I am taking the October test and I am studying like crazy. My problem, however is the games...Always run out of time and end up not being able to get to many of the questions in the last game. (Accuracy not really an issue)

Here is the interesting part though, whenever I review or attempt any individual game (even ones I haven't seen), I can comfortably solve it under 10 minutes (under 8 minutes for "easier" ones). Put four of them in one section, however, and my performance/speed falters somewhere between games.

So basically, I don't think my technique or familiarity with the games is the main issue here (although I am still working hard to improve it, drilling constantly). I've done the LG bible as well as drilled and repeated countless games (including the Cambridge "Most Difficult Games"). So for most games, I know how to diagram, get the inferences, and solve it relatively quickly. It's gotten to a point that even new weird games I can solve, because I am comfortable with the general process. I recently did the snakes one for the first time and finished it with no problem.

The main problem is speed and maintaining focus between games in sections. I seem to be so focused in the "world" of the game I am working on that I have a hard time maintaining that focus for a completely new setup. So what happens is, I can knock out the first one fast, then lose speed/focus on the second, then lose even more speed/focus on the third, and by the fourth its game over.

The frustrating part is that I don't know the best way to approach this problem with the few weeks I have left. Of course I review and repeat the game(s) that I couldn't get to after the PT, but as I said earlier I don't have any problems solving them quickly taken on an individual basis...

Anybody run into this problem and have an insight (other than "do more games", which I am doing)?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:40 pm

Here is the interesting part though, whenever I review or attempt any individual game (even ones I haven't seen), I can comfortably solve it under 10 minutes (under 8 minutes for "easier" ones). Put four of them in one section, however, and my performance/speed falters somewhere between games.


This is the problem. Being able to finish a game comfortably in under 10 minutes when you have already seen it isn't really that impressive. You only get to average 8:45 for each game on the real thing.

I'd continue to drill logic games and try to go faster. Perhaps the ultimate key to the LSAT is that you have to finish easy questions quickly. For games, this means being able to knock out a simple basic linear game (which you will most likely see on test day) in about five minutes. Then you can spend the necessary time on the other games in the section with a few more wrinkles in them.

NightmanCometh
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby NightmanCometh » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:25 pm

Thanks, but my point was that even the ones I have NOT seen, I can solve under 10 (even the third and fourth games). The ones I've seen before I can do them under 8 minutes.

But I think you made a great point, I need to get my timing on the easy ones down. When I started drilling, I went through all the most difficult games and made it a point to ignore the easy ones, in order to improve my skill of making hard deductions and adapting to weird setups or questions without getting thrown off. But, I may need to practice the easy ones so they are second nature and I don't really need to think before making the deductions. That way I have more time and mental focus left to tackle the hard ones.

How much time do you usually spend on the first game? Did you manage to get it down under 7 minutes? I will try to set a realistic time limit for those.

Thanks!

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acrossthelake
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:31 pm

NightmanCometh wrote:Thanks, but my point was that even the ones I have NOT seen, I can solve under 10 (even the third and fourth games). The ones I've seen before I can do them under 8 minutes.

But I think you made a great point, I need to get my timing on the easy ones down. When I started drilling, I went through all the most difficult games and made it a point to ignore the easy ones, in order to improve my skill of making hard deductions and adapting to weird setups or questions without getting thrown off. But, I may need to practice the easy ones so they are second nature and I don't really need to think before making the deductions. That way I have more time and mental focus left to tackle the hard ones.

How much time do you usually spend on the first game? Did you manage to get it down under 7 minutes? I will try to set a realistic time limit for those.

Thanks!


I drilled till I could do the entire section, with new games, in 25 minutes(so I guess an average of ~6-7min per game), giving me lots of breathing room. On the actual exam I did it in like 32 minutes, because I tried to take more care. "Under 10" if you mean 9 minutes isn't good enough--you need to be at 8 min for new ones.

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birdlaw117
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby birdlaw117 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:32 pm

NightmanCometh wrote:Thanks, but my point was that even the ones I have NOT seen, I can solve under 10 (even the third and fourth games). The ones I've seen before I can do them under 8 minutes.

But I think you made a great point, I need to get my timing on the easy ones down. When I started drilling, I went through all the most difficult games and made it a point to ignore the easy ones, in order to improve my skill of making hard deductions and adapting to weird setups or questions without getting thrown off. But, I may need to practice the easy ones so they are second nature and I don't really need to think before making the deductions. That way I have more time and mental focus left to tackle the hard ones.

How much time do you usually spend on the first game? Did you manage to get it down under 7 minutes? I will try to set a realistic time limit for those.

Thanks!

Try to finish every single game in under 8 minutes. The easy ones and the hard ones. Also, I fear you might be trying to fool yourself into thinking you're in a better position than you are, because I don't know how you would know which ones are easy and which ones are hard before you attempt them. Don't distinguish between difficult of games, just get them all under 8 minutes.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:33 pm

I could usually get the easiest ones done in about 4-5 minutes. Try your best to get those simple games with only 5 questions done in about 5-5.5 minutes. FWIW, I thought the games on the June test were pretty easy. Had them done in about 25 minutes, so I didn't need the extra time for a really difficult game. But it did give me time to check my work. Good thing too, because I had made a stupid mistake on the first game.

NightmanCometh
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby NightmanCometh » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:03 pm

I was under the impression that the first game is usually the easiest, is this correct? Between 2,3,4 it will probably be hard to tell. By "easy" I just mean that the setups are easier (simple linear or grouping) and deductions are easier to come across (ie just by linking two clues and not having to think about distributions etc).

5 minutes...wow. I got a lot of practicing to do lol.

NightmanCometh
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby NightmanCometh » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:18 pm

Also, I have mostly been working on the games from PT 1-38 as those are all I had...Just bought some new tests trying to save them for nearer the exam. I think I read somewhere that they get easier for the more recent tests, hope that is the case.

I drilled till I could do the entire section, with new games, in 25 minutes(so I guess an average of ~6-7min per game), giving me lots of breathing room. On the actual exam I did it in like 32 minutes, because I tried to take more care. "Under 10" if you mean 9 minutes isn't good enough--you need to be at 8 min for new ones.


25 minutes, that's amazing...I would be happy with finishing it under 35! How long did you spend preparing for this?

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SisterRayVU
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby SisterRayVU » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:14 pm

NightmanCometh wrote:Also, I have mostly been working on the games from PT 1-38 as those are all I had...Just bought some new tests trying to save them for nearer the exam. I think I read somewhere that they get easier for the more recent tests, hope that is the case.

I drilled till I could do the entire section, with new games, in 25 minutes(so I guess an average of ~6-7min per game), giving me lots of breathing room. On the actual exam I did it in like 32 minutes, because I tried to take more care. "Under 10" if you mean 9 minutes isn't good enough--you need to be at 8 min for new ones.


25 minutes, that's amazing...I would be happy with finishing it under 35! How long did you spend preparing for this?


They do get easier, especially when sequencing becomes such a big component of usually the first game. But I don't think the games get progressively harder mainly because at the end of the day, most games are like most games and should be familiar. The hardest questions for me are 'Must be False' questions and those can be on any game.

bp shinners
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby bp shinners » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:54 am

SisterRayVU wrote:
NightmanCometh wrote:Also, I have mostly been working on the games from PT 1-38 as those are all I had...Just bought some new tests trying to save them for nearer the exam. I think I read somewhere that they get easier for the more recent tests, hope that is the case.

I drilled till I could do the entire section, with new games, in 25 minutes(so I guess an average of ~6-7min per game), giving me lots of breathing room. On the actual exam I did it in like 32 minutes, because I tried to take more care. "Under 10" if you mean 9 minutes isn't good enough--you need to be at 8 min for new ones.


25 minutes, that's amazing...I would be happy with finishing it under 35! How long did you spend preparing for this?


They do get easier, especially when sequencing becomes such a big component of usually the first game. But I don't think the games get progressively harder mainly because at the end of the day, most games are like most games and should be familiar. The hardest questions for me are 'Must be False' questions and those can be on any game.


Look at Must Be False questions as "Breaking a Rule" questions. My students generally have difficulties with them, too, until they stop trying every possible combination out and realize that all you need to find is something that breaks one of the rules.

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Bobeo
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby Bobeo » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:09 pm

NightmanCometh wrote:Thanks, but my point was that even the ones I have NOT seen, I can solve under 10 (even the third and fourth games). The ones I've seen before I can do them under 8 minutes.



Just for reference I used the pitheypike method (about 30 tests worth of games, 3 times each) and I was finishing the games in < 5 minutes the third time, sometimes < 3. Drill A LOT and games become so much easier.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Logic Games- interesting, frustrating problem. Advice?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:13 pm

NightmanCometh wrote:Also, I have mostly been working on the games from PT 1-38 as those are all I had...Just bought some new tests trying to save them for nearer the exam. I think I read somewhere that they get easier for the more recent tests, hope that is the case.

I drilled till I could do the entire section, with new games, in 25 minutes(so I guess an average of ~6-7min per game), giving me lots of breathing room. On the actual exam I did it in like 32 minutes, because I tried to take more care. "Under 10" if you mean 9 minutes isn't good enough--you need to be at 8 min for new ones.


25 minutes, that's amazing...I would be happy with finishing it under 35! How long did you spend preparing for this?


I took ~20 practice tests, but way more logic game sections isolated, starting in late July for an October test. I first started with the older games with 24 questions and ran out of time for the last 1-2 questions.




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