feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

942011
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feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby 942011 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:22 pm

okay this is probably my fault in that I should have started studying earlier.

I decided to take LSAT in October and started studying last month. I hated logic games in my diagnostics and have been avoiding touching it because I knew doing those games earlier on is probably going to make me lose motivation to even look at LSAT.

Right now, I am facing a huge problem. I am doing well w. LR and RC, averaging around 2 mistakes per section for those because I really do not mind studying or doing those kinds of problems. But with LG, I think I can barely finish one of them correctly in 20 minutes (assuming it's easy). For hard ones, time runs on. I just finished the Bible and I am not sure whether that even helped because I am still struggling with a lot of the games that I tried today and they are still taking forever.

I am seeking some hope by posting here. If from now on I devote 65% of my time or maybe 75% just on LG, is there a chance I'll be ready for the October session? As of now, I get around half the questions wrong in LG if I practice under timed condition. I heard that LR is a section that can be coached, but honestly, I am one of those people who doesn't touch Sudoku and detest math and proofs. Can practice a lot in the next 20 something days really help me to reach my goal of 170+ LSAT score? I'm afraid unlike many people, my brain just isn't wired to think that way, not to mention that fast. Can you share your experiences w. studying the LG section and how you improved? Also, how o you make yourself interested?

Thank you.

DrMurder
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby DrMurder » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:13 pm

I have trouble with LG too, and at least to me, when I do them I just think about picking up the most points possible. That means leaving questions behind if they are going to most likely take a lot of time. For one, this approach insures you're not blowing valuable time on one question when it's much better spent on a setup that can lead to 2 or 3 easy points on the following question. It's much better for my state of mind going into a LG section thinking, "OK, if I can just get -5 on this section, I'm still in good shape to do well on the test as a whole; let's pick up some points."

Obelisk18
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby Obelisk18 » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:19 am

I was sort of in the same situation as you: started studying a few weeks ago for the October LSAT. Was really comfortable with LR and CR but felt Logic Games were going to own me (I got about half wrong on my first 2 timed tests). Oddly, I'm getting the hang of it now and regressing (a little) on CR and LR. I've gotten 3 games perfect two tests in a row. So serious improvement quickly is definitely possible. But it sounds like LG might target your weaknesses. That's only partially true in my case. I have awful spatial skills and a poor working memory (both of which would come in handy for LG) but I am good at rule-following, rapid-fire deductions, etc. I never see the games but if I can diagram them, I can solve them and with time to spare. Which is where the bible and particularly Manhattan's LG book really help. I've yet to complete either book, mainly because I keep cycling back. I'll go through, say, a chapter a day in each on Monday, then another on Tuesday, and another on Wednesday...then I start over again, having consciously forgotten the games I did on Monday. And I'm going to keep this up until I'm perfectly comfortable with every type of diagram and- this is key- confident that I'll recognize the need for such a diagram. You have to train your brain to go into auto-pilot on this stuff. 14 * 7. Do you sit around and multiply 7 * 4, carry the 2, 7 * 1, etc? Of course not. It's just rote. And whatever LSAC wants you to believe, those games are rote in precisely the same way- provided you're able to see how the rules play out often enough, look at enough explanations, make enough inferences, draw enough diagrams, etc. If it's routine then, if LSAC happens to make a game that differs significantly from the types...well, with any luck you'll have done the other 3 so well and so quickly that you can afford to take a few more minutes fumbling around.

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PDaddy
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby PDaddy » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:26 am

1) Reschedule the LSAT for December, or schedule December in addition to October! You need at least 12 weeks of solid practice drilling, and you cannot drill until you understand how games work, what types of games give you the most trouble and why, and how to approach the different game types. It's a trial and error type of thing, and you need time to develop certain habits at the beginnings of games. If I were you, I would not take the October test knowing that I have an entire section that may torpedo me. At the least, register for december and take the October test to see how you feel about it. If you struggle, cancel your score. Cancelled scores are not frowned upon.

2) Don't ever give up on the games if you truly want this. Right now, you are probably testing in the -21 to -25 range (remember that practice scores are typically inflated by as many as 5 points), which will still get you into law school, but not the type of school you probably deserve to go to.

Do the Bible again, and drill-drill-drill on as many logic games as you can. After you begin to have your breakthrough, they will become "fun", and you will want to do more of them. It's sort of like trying to lose weight: you might struggle to begin shedding pounds, but once you start to see some results, you want to do more.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby Blessedassurance » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:34 am

Read the Bible a second time.

Read the Manhattan/Atlas thingy on games and compare their diagramming strategies with respect to sequencing and grouping.

942011
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby 942011 » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:35 am

Thank you.

I do feel a lot better and definitely more motivated after reading the responses.

I got very frustrated because I didn't understand why I was still struggling so much w. LG (even after reading the famous Bible). The frustration compounded when I thought about the other two sections for which I average around -2 and could usually complete w. around 5 min to spare. I kept on thinking that if only I could lower m LG performance to -5, then I could potentially get 170+, and that only made me hate LG more because it became the looming hurdle between me and my dream law school, for which I'd have a really good shot because I'm set in all aspects except LSAT, and then that train of thought would bring me right back again to my hatred of LG and how much I didn't want to study for it. Then, I'd do some LR and RC (which I've actually come to enjoy) and leave LG somewhere under the pile- talk about denial right?

I have to really thank TLS forum because it is giving me the motivation I have been seeking. I stumbled upon some old threads of people who talked about how much they improved after studying. I started to think that if there are people out there who have spent so much time to prep for this, then unless I put in comparable efforts, I do not deserve to be whining over LG and how I'm not doing well, especially when I have been avoiding the issue because I didn't want to face my weakness. You are right, unless I feel more ready w. LG, I should either reschedule or cancel. I am going to spend some serious time studying between now and Oct/Dec. I probably knew this before, but it is nice to have someone say that out loud directly. Thanks to all the TLS'ers who have helped to motivate me.

P.S. I just bought the Manhattan book from Amazon! Thanks again.

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Eichörnchen
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby Eichörnchen » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:10 am

I am exactly like you in every way haha. I average -2 to -3 in RC and LR and enjoy studying/reviewing those sections. So before I knew it, I had left no time for games, which I had been avoid because I hated them so much. For the past week I have been doing games and reviewing them exclusively. I took a PT after a week of this and got -4 LG, and that is with a silly mistake representing a rule (My RC and LR suffered though, but I hope that's because I was out of the habit). I am still nowhere near where I want to be, but we have a few weeks left to sort it out. The Manhattan book helped me a lot. Keep going and do your best.

Oh, and I've stopped hating LG. I never would have thought that would happen, but I have accepted them as part of the test. :wink:

concerter
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby concerter » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:48 pm

I am in the exact same situation...Doing well in all other sections but not the game. I think we still got a chance if we work hard on the game part. There is still a solid month left!

swoozie
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby swoozie » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:23 pm

If you're already solid on the LR/RC, you might be able to do it. =)

I think I was stuck on avg 10 mins per game when I was going through the bible. PLUS I wasn't even getting all of the ?s right. I dunno but I think tons of practice is really the key here, at some point it just sort of became second nature to me, you'll see something and you'll go "I've done something like this x times before". I think I saw somewhere in this forum about making bunches of copies, I had 3/4 copies of every LG in the bible, I mixed up all the sections and did them over and over again in batches of 4. Then tried to do every LG section from PTs I could get my hands on, even if I didn't do the entire PT itself. (and use the internet to find solutions for things you didn't get).

Then I got a -0 for LG on actual test day. =) So best wishes to you.

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dakure
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby dakure » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:30 pm

Eichörnchen wrote:I am exactly like you in every way haha. I average -2 to -3 in RC and LR and enjoy studying/reviewing those sections. So before I knew it, I had left no time for games, which I had been avoid because I hated them so much. For the past week I have been doing games and reviewing them exclusively. I took a PT after a week of this and got -4 LG, and that is with a silly mistake representing a rule (My RC and LR suffered though, but I hope that's because I was out of the habit). I am still nowhere near where I wantto be, but we have a few weeks left to sort it out. The Manhattan book helped me a lot. Keep going and do your best.

Oh, and I've stopped hating LG. I never would have thought that would happen, but I have accepted them as part of the test. :wink:

Qfp

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Eichörnchen
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby Eichörnchen » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:34 pm

dakure wrote:
Eichörnchen wrote:I am exactly like you in every way haha. I average -2 to -3 in RC and LR and enjoy studying/reviewing those sections. So before I knew it, I had left no time for games, which I had been avoid because I hated them so much. For the past week I have been doing games and reviewing them exclusively. I took a PT after a week of this and got -4 LG, and that is with a silly mistake representing a rule (My RC and LR suffered though, but I hope that's because I was out of the habit). I am still nowhere near where I wantto be, but we have a few weeks left to sort it out. The Manhattan book helped me a lot. Keep going and do your best.

Oh, and I've stopped hating LG. I never would have thought that would happen, but I have accepted them as part of the test. :wink:

Qfp

Bastard.

942011
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby 942011 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:08 am

That's pretty motivating. Hopefully I can change the "might" to "definitely".

Yeah, I'm pretty solid w. LR and RC, but I'm going to continue to work on them to see if I can improve my performance. A point gained on those translates another point I can afford to lose with LG.

From now till October, it's hard core LG time. Going to cross all of my fingers for a miraculous -5. Good luck to all of us LG-strugglers in these final weeks.

Thanks everyone. I'm glad I found this forum. Your suggestions and posts of "I'm exactly like you" have all made me feel less hopeless :)

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PDaddy
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby PDaddy » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:15 am

I hated logic games with a passion when I first started, not because I didn't have the capacity to do them, but because I didn't have the patience to want to do them. Now I do them for relaxation, even though I don't have to anymore. Someone told me they would become fun, and I didn't believe them. They are fun as hell...any game you throw at me...THEY'RE CALLED "GAMES" FOR A REASON FOLKS. They really are just games, and anyone who loves to analyze should love them. I do them on the train or bus, or while waiting at the doctor's office, etc. They are like crosswords for me.

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mattviphky
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby mattviphky » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:18 am

Dude, you are in the best situation you could possibly be in for being underprepared. Most people who are having section trouble this close usually have difficulties with LR or RC (especially RC). But LG is fixable. You have great scores in the other sections if you truly get around -2 a section with a 35 minute time limit. Don't worry, everyone has trouble with LG when they start, and it is not super easy to master LG, but it is very possible, but it requires work from you. When I started studying the LG bible, I felt like MY brain wasn't wired for it, it would just give me headaches and take me a while. But like anything, if you stay persistent it will eventually click. I would study the bible for only like 45 minutes and I would get a headache, I would take a break, and then get back to the Bible. Do this, just because people on here say they study for like 6 hours a day, it doesn't work for everybody, in fact it can work against you. Just work through the Bible the best you can, and after about a week or two things will start clicking, but you must be persistent! I had the same sort of study habit when I first started, except the exact opposite. I knew LG was a problem and that it could be easily corrected, so I spent my first month dedicated to LG. I went -13 on my first LSAT, I'm now at a fairly consistent -0 to -2. It's doable. Just take the rest of the month and set aside some time for LG, not all your time cuz you need to keep up with rc and lr, but def devote a great deal to LG. do you have pts? make sure you do at least 6-7 before October to simulate a full test.

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mattviphky
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby mattviphky » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:19 am

They are like crosswords for me.[/quote]

Yep, once you get it they really can be fun. Once you get to that point it feels awesome. Anything worth doing isn't easy

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CYang
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby CYang » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:51 am

yeah in the beginning for me working through LG or studying it would leave me soo dazed ... at the end of hours long study session i would be like, was i even productive? did i just blindly go through material? did i learn anything, am i progressing?? i just believed what everyone says on here, to just keep at it, and hope for the best.

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clouds101
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby clouds101 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:56 pm

CYang wrote:yeah in the beginning for me working through LG or studying it would leave me soo dazed ... at the end of hours long study session i would be like, was i even productive? did i just blindly go through material? did i learn anything, am i progressing?? i just believed what everyone says on here, to just keep at it, and hope for the best.


+1

942011
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby 942011 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:28 am

Update: I received the book from Amazon and worked with it for the last 1.5 days. Today, I took 3 sections of LR as practice. The first one was -11, which is very typical. But on the 3rd, I went down to -6 and was able to finish all but 4 of the questions. This is my best LG score to date!! Amazing. I honestly felt like I wont the lottery or something.

942011
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Re: feeling kindda hopeless w. logic games

Postby 942011 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:29 am

mattviphky wrote:Dude, you are in the best situation you could possibly be in for being underprepared. Most people who are having section trouble this close usually have difficulties with LR or RC (especially RC). But LG is fixable. You have great scores in the other sections if you truly get around -2 a section with a 35 minute time limit. Don't worry, everyone has trouble with LG when they start, and it is not super easy to master LG, but it is very possible, but it requires work from you. When I started studying the LG bible, I felt like MY brain wasn't wired for it, it would just give me headaches and take me a while. But like anything, if you stay persistent it will eventually click. I would study the bible for only like 45 minutes and I would get a headache, I would take a break, and then get back to the Bible. Do this, just because people on here say they study for like 6 hours a day, it doesn't work for everybody, in fact it can work against you. Just work through the Bible the best you can, and after about a week or two things will start clicking, but you must be persistent! I had the same sort of study habit when I first started, except the exact opposite. I knew LG was a problem and that it could be easily corrected, so I spent my first month dedicated to LG. I went -13 on my first LSAT, I'm now at a fairly consistent -0 to -2. It's doable. Just take the rest of the month and set aside some time for LG, not all your time cuz you need to keep up with rc and lr, but def devote a great deal to LG. do you have pts? make sure you do at least 6-7 before October to simulate a full test.


Hey thanks a lot! You were one of the people I was referring to in my original post! I read your story and felt really inspired by you. It surprised me to see your reply and thanks for the encouragement.




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