conditional diagramming

bleern031
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conditional diagramming

Postby bleern031 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:09 am

Can someone diagram this?

Because Joe likes to eat pie, he is fat.

bleern031
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Re: conditional diagramming

Postby bleern031 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:28 am

.

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TrojanHopeful
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Re: conditional diagramming

Postby TrojanHopeful » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:31 am

Premise: Likes to Eat Pie-------->Fat

Premise: Joe likes to eat pie

Conclusion: Joe is fat

Contrapositive:

Not Fat---------->Doesn't like to eat pie

jamesireland
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Re: conditional diagramming

Postby jamesireland » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:57 am

There is a difference between conditionals and arguments. 'Because' is an argument indicator, not a conditional indicator, so there isn't really a conditional statement here to diagram.

Consider 'A -> B' and 'A BECAUSE B'. To see that these are different note that from the latter one can infer that 'A', whereas from the former one cannot.

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TrojanHopeful
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Re: conditional diagramming

Postby TrojanHopeful » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:07 pm

jamesireland wrote:There is a difference between conditionals and arguments. 'Because' is an argument indicator, not a conditional indicator, so there isn't really a conditional statement here to diagram.

Consider 'A -> B' and 'A BECAUSE B'. To see that these are different note that from the latter one can infer that 'A', whereas from the former one cannot.


True. However, I believe that my argument breakdown above shows that there is a conditional statement involved (if, in fact, the argument is valid).

jamesireland
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Re: conditional diagramming

Postby jamesireland » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:50 pm

TrojanHopeful wrote:
jamesireland wrote:There is a difference between conditionals and arguments. 'Because' is an argument indicator, not a conditional indicator, so there isn't really a conditional statement here to diagram.

Consider 'A -> B' and 'A BECAUSE B'. To see that these are different note that from the latter one can infer that 'A', whereas from the former one cannot.


True. However, I believe that my argument breakdown above shows that there is a conditional statement involved (if, in fact, the argument is valid).


Your proposed conditional tells us about the relationship between the two parts: Joe liking to eat pie and Joe being fat; but it doesn't tell us anything about the truth of the individual parts. Given the conditional, can we say whether or not Joe does like to eat pie? no. The original statement however indicates that it is in fact true that Joe likes to eat pie. Diagramming the statement as a conditional leaves out important information. Depending on the question this might be very important.

The original statement might imply a conditional like the one you propose, but just because it is an implication doesn't mean it is a proper representation.

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maru
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Re: conditional diagramming

Postby maru » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:56 pm

I think diagramming a causal argument can still be helpful, as long as you keep in mind that it's causal and not conditional. Sorry, unhelpful comment is unhelpful. :|

bp shinners
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Re: conditional diagramming

Postby bp shinners » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:56 pm

maru wrote:I think diagramming a causal argument can still be helpful, as long as you keep in mind that it's causal and not conditional. Sorry, unhelpful comment is unhelpful. :|


No, definitely helpful. You should have a method for diagramming causal arguments that differs from conditionals. Especially for strengthen/weaken questions, where you're looking for a specific answer type if the argument is causal.

Personally, I draw out the cause and effect with a swooping arrow connecting the two underneath. Similar to a conditional, but different enough so that I know more is going on.




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