Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

melucky5
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Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby melucky5 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:23 pm

My first LSAT score was 143 (please do not laugh, I know...) after studying for several months.

This time I have been studying much harder every day for about 3 months already (I did all actual LSAT each second day, then analyzed the mistakes next day. I read all Power Score books several times). My native language is not English. So I also memorized 15-20 new words almost each day (like "engulf", "algae", "eschew" etc.) I took these words from actual tests and learned about 2000 words total.)

Going to re-take LSAT this October and pretty nervous. I make 155 max with timing at home now. And my goal is 157-159.

I work full time as a paralegal and I can study for LSAT at nights and on the week-ends. So I approximately spend about 3,5 hrs per day and 20 hrs per week-end for studying.

Any advices on how to bump it up? Any other non-native speakers?

Thank you so much!

jlhero
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby jlhero » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:45 pm

hey man, i think i can give u some advice.

u need a lot of time to master English first. that means, u have to memorize vocab, watch a lot of english tvs, read english magazines, and talk to english speakers.

and, if ur score is below 160 and if ur aim is low, maybe try to concentrate on LGs. if u have a -0 in LG, u can have around 10 errors per each lr and rc section.

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ss3825
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby ss3825 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:30 pm

melucky5 wrote:My first LSAT score was 143 (please do not laugh, I know...) after studying for several months.

This time I have been studying much harder every day for about 3 months already (I did all actual LSAT each second day, then analyzed the mistakes next day. I read all Power Score books several times). My native language is not English. So I also memorized 15-20 new words almost each day (like "engulf", "algae", "eschew" etc.) I took these words from actual tests and learned about 2000 words total.)

Going to re-take LSAT this October and pretty nervous. I make 155 max with timing at home now. And my goal is 157-159.

I work full time as a paralegal and I can study for LSAT at nights and on the week-ends. So I approximately spend about 3,5 hrs per day and 20 hrs per week-end for studying.

Any advices on how to bump it up? Any other non-native speakers?

Thank you so much!

I am a non-native speaker taking the LSAT as well. I don't think learning English with 30 days to go is useful at all. I think your best bet would be to drill on all question types rather than just do the Actual LSAT Prep Tests.
Do all the games by type atleast 3 times over so that you will get a -0 on LG section. Similarly, drill on each question type of LR. After drilling, answers will come much more easily even if your grasp of English is not that good (which I doubt since your question above is in good English.

Check out this famous study guide by pithypike: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41657

Separation of games by type is also in there.

Good luck. I am sure you will do well. Focus on drilling and practicing.

Spacemyace
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby Spacemyace » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:33 am

[quote="melucky5"]My first LSAT score was 143 (please do not laugh, I know...) after studying for several months.

This time I have been studying much harder every day for about 3 months already (I did all actual LSAT each second day, then analyzed the mistakes next day. I read all Power Score books several times). My native language is not English. So I also memorized 15-20 new words almost each day (like "engulf", "algae", "eschew" etc.) I took these words from actual tests and learned about 2000 words total.)

Going to re-take LSAT this October and pretty nervous. I make 155 max with timing at home now. And my goal is 157-159.

I work full time as a paralegal and I can study for LSAT at nights and on the week-ends. So I approximately spend about 3,5 hrs per day and 20 hrs per week-end for studying.

Any advices on how to bump it up? Any other non-native speakers?

Spacemyace
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby Spacemyace » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:36 am

melucky5 wrote:My first LSAT score was 143 (please do not laugh, I know...) after studying for several months.

This time I have been studying much harder every day for about 3 months already (I did all actual LSAT each second day, then analyzed the mistakes next day. I read all Power Score books several times). My native language is not English. So I also memorized 15-20 new words almost each day (like "engulf", "algae", "eschew" etc.) I took these words from actual tests and learned about 2000 words total.)

Going to re-take LSAT this October and pretty nervous. I make 155 max with timing at home now. And my goal is 157-159.

I work full time as a paralegal and I can study for LSAT at nights and on the week-ends. So I approximately spend about 3,5 hrs per day and 20 hrs per week-end for studying.

Any advices on how to bump it up? Any other non-native speakers?

Thank you so much!
Last edited by Spacemyace on Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spacemyace
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby Spacemyace » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:53 am

jlhero wrote:hey man, i think i can give u some advice.

u need a lot of time to master English first. that means, u have to memorize vocab, watch a lot of english tvs, read english magazines, and talk to english speakers.

and, if ur score is below 160 and if ur aim is low, maybe try to concentrate on LGs. if u have a -0 in LG, u can have around 10 errors per each lr and rc section.
Last edited by Spacemyace on Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

bp shinners
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby bp shinners » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:38 pm

Spacemyace wrote:The bottom line, for most non English speakers, completing 3 games in the LG section will be a major feat, seriously.


I hate to disagree with someone in a situation that I will most likely never be in, but I don't believe that is true. I've taught many non-native speakers who were in the process of learning English, and they generally did MUCH better on LG than any other section (some receiving perfect or near-perfect scores). While it might take you longer to get through the rules, once you've got them symbolized you're not at much of a disadvantage to other students. There are odd questions that test your ability to understand the language, but for the most part the questions fall into the "If ________, then which _______ be true?" category. I think you're selling yourself short and potentially limiting your own abilities with the belief that you can't do better on the LG section. It shouldn't be the impediment you're making it out to be. Especially with the command you seem to have of the language based on your posts (and I would say that to the OP as well).

Spacemyace
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby Spacemyace » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:34 pm

bp shinners wrote:
Spacemyace wrote:The bottom line, for most non English speakers, completing 3 games in the LG section will be a major feat, seriously.


I hate to disagree with someone in a situation that I will most likely never be in, but I don't believe that is true. I've taught many non-native speakers who were in the process of learning English, and they generally did MUCH better on LG than any other section (some receiving perfect or near-perfect scores). While it might take you longer to get through the rules, once you've got them symbolized you're not at much of a disadvantage to other students. There are odd questions that test your ability to understand the language, but for the most part the questions fall into the "If ________, then which _______ be true?" category. I think you're selling yourself short and potentially limiting your own abilities with the belief that you can't do better on the LG section. It shouldn't be the impediment you're making it out to be. Especially with the command you seem to have of the language based on your posts (and I would say that to the OP as well).


You made some good rational statement in your post but the statement that most part of the questions fall into "if ___, then which__ be true" takes for granted the language structure used to set the game up. For instance, the house or building game that uses the key word "adjacent" may throw off some non native speakers who may pause for some time to think of the meaning. Most non native speakers would use "next" in their daily usage of English. It is definitely an inherent disadvantage but not an excuse not to compete. I guess because of people like "me", they have schools like FAMU, St. Thomas, etc. And I do understand, native speakers are very accomodating and accepting of non native speakers ability to speak and write just like you have noted on your post here. Thanks for your post anyway.

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violinst
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby violinst » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:38 pm

Spacemyace wrote:
melucky5 wrote:My first LSAT score was 143 (please do not laugh, I know...) after studying for several months.

This time I have been studying much harder every day for about 3 months already (I did all actual LSAT each second day, then analyzed the mistakes next day. I read all Power Score books several times). My native language is not English. So I also memorized 15-20 new words almost each day (like "engulf", "algae", "eschew" etc.) I took these words from actual tests and learned about 2000 words total.)

Going to re-take LSAT this October and pretty nervous. I make 155 max with timing at home now. And my goal is 157-159.

I work full time as a paralegal and I can study for LSAT at nights and on the week-ends. So I approximately spend about 3,5 hrs per day and 20 hrs per week-end for studying.

Any advices on how to bump it up? Any other non-native speakers?

Thank you so much!



Yes, you are not alone at all. I fall almost exactly in the same situation with you. The truth is that for non native English speakers like you and I, its almost very unlikely for us to score close to the native English speakers. This situation is even worse for immigrant test takers from non Western countries. Another possible truth is the assumption that a test taker is familiar with Western socio-economic environment. For instance, a lg that references a 5 floor (storey) building. If you're like me that live in the jungle, , then that game is like learning a new language in 8.5 minutes. I guess that's where the URM of a thing comes into play. Do not get discouraged with your performance; the best you can do is to keep practicing and that's all I'm doing and also shooting for the same range like you.


That's not true at all.

Spacemyace
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby Spacemyace » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:41 pm

bp shinners wrote:
Spacemyace wrote:The bottom line, for most non English speakers, completing 3 games in the LG section will be a major feat, seriously.


I hate to disagree with someone in a situation that I will most likely never be in, but I don't believe that is true. I've taught many non-native speakers who were in the process of learning English, and they generally did MUCH better on LG than any other section (some receiving perfect or near-perfect scores). While it might take you longer to get through the rules, once you've got them symbolized you're not at much of a disadvantage to other students. There are odd questions that test your ability to understand the language, but for the most part the questions fall into the "If ________, then which _______ be true?" category. I think you're selling yourself short and potentially limiting your own abilities with the belief that you can't do better on the LG section. It shouldn't be the impediment you're making it out to be. Especially with the command you seem to have of the language based on your posts (and I would say that to the OP as well).



By the way, I do have so much respect for those that scores 180 which includes you. Even if I have to take all the time to do the test, there's no possible way I will have a perfect score. I concede that I don't get the concept to score in the 170 range.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:24 pm

Spacemyace wrote:Another possible truth is the assumption that a test taker is familiar with Western socio-economic environment. For instance, a lg that references a 5 floor (storey) building. If you're like me that live in the jungle, , then that game is like learning a new language in 8.5 minutes.


I understand that some Western concepts could throw you for a loop, but I'm legitimately curious as to how the idea of a 5 story building is confusing.

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naillsat
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby naillsat » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:04 am

unlike TOEFL, LSAT does not test your english competence, rather it tests how logical and smart you are. English is my second language as well, and I dont think it's a hurdle for me to score 180 :roll: . I know a few guys scored 170+ as a non-native english speaker' but the bottom line is you gotta have good reading skills.

pcwcecac
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby pcwcecac » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:28 am

To OP: I truly admire your determination and work ethic. Frankly, with this type of persistence, you will do well, regardless of which law school you attend. Getting into law school is an important step, and yet performing well in law school is by far more critical.

Keep your confidence up. You will do great in life. And something tells me that you'll be pleasantly surprised when your new LSAT score is released.

Just keep at it my friend. Don't let fear distract you. You are well on your way to success.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby Nulli Secundus » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:33 am

PSA: Do not blame being a non-native speaker for your bad LSAT scores. Whether you are a successful Italian lawyer or a paralegal, that excuse makes no sense. You are not born speaking English, even English, actually, learn English.

pcwcecac
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby pcwcecac » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:51 am

OP: Another thing that I found very useful, is to develop selective hearing/reading. People who post here need not to heed your needs; we say whatever we find appropriate. So please only pay attention to advice that you can use. My advice, once again, is just to keep it up.

Best of luck to you!

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allthatglambition
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby allthatglambition » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:28 am

Read, read, read substantiative stuff..
The Economist, Financial Times, Wall Street Journal.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:43 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Spacemyace wrote:Another possible truth is the assumption that a test taker is familiar with Western socio-economic environment. For instance, a lg that references a 5 floor (storey) building. If you're like me that live in the jungle, , then that game is like learning a new language in 8.5 minutes.


I understand that some Western concepts could throw you for a loop, but I'm legitimately curious as to how the idea of a 5 story building is confusing.
I know in England, the "first floor" is the floor above the ground floor. Americans (and anyone who can count) call it the "second floor." But a "five-storey" building is the same height in both countries. It's just that the top floor of a five-storey building in England is called the "fourth floor." :P

That said, if someone actually grew up in the jungle, presumably somewhere between living in a thatched hut and taking the LSAT, they ran across multi-storey buildings.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:46 am

Isn't the LSAT administered in multiple languages?

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:49 am

JamMasterJ wrote:Isn't the LSAT administered in multiple languages?

I am almost certain that the LSAT is only administered in English.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:03 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:Isn't the LSAT administered in multiple languages?

I am almost certain that the LSAT is only administered in English.

I just know they do it for Canadian law schools and thought that it was the same for other places.

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Moomoo2u
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby Moomoo2u » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:23 pm

canadian law schools use the same English LSAT as they do in the USA.

in fact the reason McGill doesn't require the LSAT is because it is not offered in French.

bp shinners
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby bp shinners » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:17 pm

Spacemyace wrote:You made some good rational statement in your post but the statement that most part of the questions fall into "if ___, then which__ be true" takes for granted the language structure used to set the game up. For instance, the house or building game that uses the key word "adjacent" may throw off some non native speakers who may pause for some time to think of the meaning. Most non native speakers would use "next" in their daily usage of English. It is definitely an inherent disadvantage but not an excuse not to compete.


That's a good point I hadn't fully considered. And I won't argue that it's not an inherent disadvantage. I still believe, however, that those words that would give a non-native speaker pause can be picked up over the course of studying as the same ones will come up repeatedly (such as adjacent).

I guess the main thrust of my post was that, while certainly more difficult, I don't think not being a native speaker is a bar to finishing all 4 games with decent accuracy. I'm sure it will cause you to lose the occasional point when you stumble on a question, but don't use it as a crutch so that you don't even believe you can get through 4 games. I've seen people do it, so have faith in yourself that you can, too!

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:22 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
Spacemyace wrote:Another possible truth is the assumption that a test taker is familiar with Western socio-economic environment. For instance, a lg that references a 5 floor (storey) building. If you're like me that live in the jungle, , then that game is like learning a new language in 8.5 minutes.


I understand that some Western concepts could throw you for a loop, but I'm legitimately curious as to how the idea of a 5 story building is confusing.
I know in England, the "first floor" is the floor above the ground floor. Americans (and anyone who can count) call it the "second floor." But a "five-storey" building is the same height in both countries. It's just that the top floor of a five-storey building in England is called the "fourth floor." :P

That said, if someone actually grew up in the jungle, presumably somewhere between living in a thatched hut and taking the LSAT, they ran across multi-storey buildings.


Hmm. Learn something new every day.

I agree that by the time a guy from the undiscovered Amazonian jungle goes in to take the LSAT, he should have dealt with these kinds of concepts.

lawschoolin2010
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby lawschoolin2010 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:33 pm

.
Last edited by lawschoolin2010 on Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CHIJAMES11
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Re: Non-Native Speaker - What Elese Can I do?

Postby CHIJAMES11 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:55 pm

You should study english grammar and comprehend how it works. Depending on your skill level your probably won't need much time to figure out how grammar works as these things kind of come back to you after looking at them (like riding a bike). You are not being tested on your ability to speak english, so instead understand sentence structure and syntax; this goes for native speakers as well. I was recently going through the MLSAT LR book and had to take a minute to look up relative pronouns. It has been quite awhile since ENG 101 and brushing up on your grammar skills cannot hurt. I feel like a lot of passages have information that is all scrambled together (with the intent of confusing you), but these passages still need to follow the rules of grammar. For example, main point questions can make it difficult to find the conclusion by using relative pronouns but at least we know how relative pronouns work when referring to another clause. In my humble opinion - James.




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