PT 13 Game 4 (Dec. 1994)

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emkay625
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PT 13 Game 4 (Dec. 1994)

Postby emkay625 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:17 am

This is the hardest game I've ever come across. I've been staring at it for an hour. LG is normally a perfect section for me and finished in under 30, but I am clueless right now. Is there a deduction I'm missing? I've figured out that whichever go in year 1, the other 2 must go in year 2, etc., but that's all I can get.

Insight is appreciated.

chadbrochill
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Re: PT 13 Game 4 (Dec. 1994)

Postby chadbrochill » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:05 am

2 clans that went year 1 but not year 2 are due to go year 3.

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Samara
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Re: PT 13 Game 4 (Dec. 1994)

Postby Samara » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:28 pm

Ooh yeah, that game is a bitch. I wasn't getting it at first, so I tried the first couple questions by doing hypotheticals. What triggered it for me was by the third question when I realized that every possible arrangement had to be in five cycles. For the rest of the questions, I pretty much just modified one of the hypotheticals I made earlier.

On weird games like these, I just brute force them. I don't know that there's really a crucial inference to make other than the five cycles in a set thing. Is there a specific question you're struggling on?

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emkay625
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Re: PT 13 Game 4 (Dec. 1994)

Postby emkay625 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:35 pm

Haha I like the brute force.

And yes! #2 and #3!

HellOnHeels
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Re: PT 13 Game 4 (Dec. 1994)

Postby HellOnHeels » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:16 pm

I just did that question last night. It was brutal!

Question 3, I figured out pretty quickly that it was a cycle of 5 years. If each clan has to participate 3 times in a cycle, and there are 5 clans, that's 15 spots to get filled in a cycle, and if each year, three clans participate, that means there must be 5 years in the cycle, is how I answered that question.

Question 2, A and B are incorrect because a clan can't participate in three consecutive years. D and E I filled into my grid to see if they'd work, and they don't (D ends up with clans participating in three consecutive years, E ends up with one clan not participating at least once in two consecutive years). That left C.
N P N T N
S T S O S
O O P P T

N S S P S
O T T N T
P N O O P
You can fill in the remaining clans any way you like, but it would never work out.

There is probably a quicker way to answer those questions using Powerscore or some other method, but I don't have those methods, so that's the way I answered them!

lothsome
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Re: PT 13 Game 4 (Dec. 1994)

Postby lothsome » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:02 pm

This question is super easy (for me at least). You have the 5 clans and three go per year, with no more than 1 from the previous year going the next year (from the 2 year cycle rule and the no 3 year rule). This means that there is a set cycle for the clans, and you actually don't need to care about which clans are going. It works like this:

Clans who go in the first year are group A. The two remaining clans are group B. Here is the full 5 year cycle, plus 3 more years to see when it would repeat itself assuming a start at an arbitrary place:

ABABA ABA
ABAAB ABA
AABAB BAA

We do not care which clans make up group A or B, since the consequences of those particulars can be derived easily once we know how many from each group appear per cycle. The trick to easily doing this question is to recognize early on that it's actually just a sequencing game using a bunch of units of three, and deriving the possible sequences in a generic format, as I did above.

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Samara
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Re: PT 13 Game 4 (Dec. 1994)

Postby Samara » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:07 pm

lothsome wrote:This question is super easy (for me at least). You have the 5 clans and three go per year, with no more than 1 from the previous year going the next year (from the 2 year cycle rule and the no 3 year rule). This means that there is a set cycle for the clans, and you actually don't need to care about which clans are going. It works like this:

Clans who go in the first year are group A. The two remaining clans are group B. Here is the full 5 year cycle, plus 3 more years to see when it would repeat itself assuming a start at an arbitrary place:

ABABA ABA
ABAAB ABA
AABAB BAA

We do not care which clans make up group A or B, since the consequences of those particulars can be derived easily once we know how many from each group appear per cycle. The trick to easily doing this question is to recognize early on that it's actually just a sequencing game using a bunch of units of three, and deriving the possible sequences in a generic format, as I did above.

How clever! What threw me was trying to figure out what the game was describing. Once it clicked, it was easy, but sometimes the weirder ones take me a few hypotheticals to figure out what's going on.

lothsome
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Re: PT 13 Game 4 (Dec. 1994)

Postby lothsome » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:12 pm

Samara wrote:How clever! What threw me was trying to figure out what the game was describing. Once it clicked, it was easy, but sometimes the weirder ones take me a few hypotheticals to figure out what's going on.


Whenever I see weird sets of rules like that, I always move to simplify the question. I'd say on something like a third of the games I've done, there are categories in the stimulus that just don't matter that much (usually they only matter for specific questions, or for 1 derivation, like in one of PT20's games). I think it's really important to develop the skill to identify these sorts of problems, and rapidly adjust for them, since you never know what a given administration of the test is gonna throw at you. I just wish there were a few more games like this, that really throw your expectations through a loop, because they're the ones I have the most fun working on.




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