December 2011 LSAT Study Group

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paulshortys10
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby paulshortys10 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:16 pm

Haven't really been updating my scores on here.

I'm retaking all of these exams, mostly for the 3rd time in a year.

I'm only concentrating on the LR/RC portions and skipping the LG(i usually get -0, or a -1 if i fuck up)

So far i've done 36,37,38 and gotten 171,172, and 172

finishing 35 and 34 tonight.

katzrr
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby katzrr » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:26 am

So I have been taking about 10 prep tests and my scores are not improving. If I do not take it under strict timing conditions, I can get an average of 164 or so (timed, but with big breaks between sections) I have just taken the October 2010 lsat, which was the first that I have taken with very strict timing conditions and the bubble sheet, and I got a 157. For the schools that I'd want to go to (Rutgers/Temple/Villanova) that is too low for scholarships and maybe for acceptance as well. I feel that I would probably score closer to 157 than to the other preptests that I have taken. Does anyone have advice on whether I should cancel my registration and try to study for the June 2012 test instead?

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noleknight16
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby noleknight16 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:33 am

katzrr wrote:So I have been taking about 10 prep tests and my scores are not improving. If I do not take it under strict timing conditions, I can get an average of 164 or so (timed, but with big breaks between sections) I have just taken the October 2010 lsat, which was the first that I have taken with very strict timing conditions and the bubble sheet, and I got a 157. For the schools that I'd want to go to (Rutgers/Temple/Villanova) that is too low for scholarships and maybe for acceptance as well. I feel that I would probably score closer to 157 than to the other preptests that I have taken. Does anyone have advice on whether I should cancel my registration and try to study for the June 2012 test instead?


I think if you're 10 PT in and not improving, you're not ready to take full PTs. Do individual sections in 35 mins or less consecutively till you're nailing them. It's easier to determine flaws and weaknesses if you do single section drills. Then I'd go back to PTs once you feel comfortable. You have up till the day before the test to withdraw.

barneytrouble
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby barneytrouble » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:07 am

Anyone who has taken PT 54 recently:

Reviewing a couple of my misses... On LR1 question 24, I picked C when the answer is A. On LR2 question 21, I picked C when the answer is E. When I go back post-test and look at these, it is relatively clear why TCR is TCR and why my selection isn't, but when I was taking the test on both of these questions I crossed out the other 3 answer choices and then just went with my gut - I literally couldn't pick a favorite.

The question I have is whether or not there is a trick to either of these problems that I am missing? Something that doesn't require taking the time to reason them out, but similar to Assumption Questions where you negate the answer choices and if it weakens the conclusion, it is TCR.

katzrr
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby katzrr » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:02 am

I think if you're 10 PT in and not improving, you're not ready to take full PTs. Do individual sections in 35 mins or less consecutively till you're nailing them. It's easier to determine flaws and weaknesses if you do single section drills. Then I'd go back to PTs once you feel comfortable. You have up till the day before the test to withdraw.


LG and RC are my worst sections. For LG I'll be lucky if I get 15 right. I have scanned about 70 games into my computer and divided them by type (Grouping, Linear, Pure Sequencing, Mapping/Pattern). I have worst problems with Grouping/Pattern games. I have been drilling them for a week and a half with little improvement when I take fresh sections that I haven't seen before.

RC - I'm a very slow reader and I end up rushing through the last passage.

Does anyone have any tips on how to improve study strategy for LG in time for December LSAt?
Last edited by katzrr on Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Manhattan LSAT Noah
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:39 am

Apologies if anyone's e-mailed me since Friday about joining up, leading a session, etc. My email is wonky (and continues to be). Shame on you, Time Warner cable.

PM me instead

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SA1928
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby SA1928 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:03 pm

barneytrouble wrote:Anyone who has taken PT 54 recently:

Reviewing a couple of my misses... On LR1 question 24, I picked C when the answer is A. On LR2 question 21, I picked C when the answer is E. When I go back post-test and look at these, it is relatively clear why TCR is TCR and why my selection isn't, but when I was taking the test on both of these questions I crossed out the other 3 answer choices and then just went with my gut - I literally couldn't pick a favorite.

The question I have is whether or not there is a trick to either of these problems that I am missing? Something that doesn't require taking the time to reason them out, but similar to Assumption Questions where you negate the answer choices and if it weakens the conclusion, it is TCR.


Hey! I looked at the questions real quick, although I haven't taken the entire exam. For LR1 question 24- it looks like a strengthen question to me. Are you following the MLSAT LR book? If so, you basically just use the core (so find the conclusion + premises) and then figure out where the gap is. Once you have the gap on strengthen questions, you want to find an answer that can help plug the gap. The key to strengthen questions seems to be to remember that you do not have to plug the gap entirely. It can strengthen the argument anywhere from say 1% all the way to 100%. Another tip (from Dave Hall) says to look for middle language on Strengthen questions (and weaken!).

As for LR2 question 21 - I think the correct answer was actually C, so you can give yourself another point for that! Have you seen Dave Hall's tips for what to do when you can get an answer down to 2 choices?

Ben Reilly
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby Ben Reilly » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:43 pm

Two questions for those in attendance:

1. I seem to be performing a lot worse on the earlier practice tests (i.e. 30-38) than the practice tests from 2004 and after (i.e. PT 40 and above.) Should I be worried about this? The tests from these groups seems so starkly different, especially in regards to the difficulty of the logic games, with the earlier tests having much tougher games.

2. Is it really that bad if you revisit tests that you've taken portions of already? I practiced on the LG sections of a few of the newer tests just to make sure I got them, and although I haven't remembered any of the content when I took the full tests, I just want to make sure I'm not giving myself a sense of undeserved accomplishment when I score well.

barneytrouble
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby barneytrouble » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:49 pm

SA1928 wrote:
barneytrouble wrote:Anyone who has taken PT 54 recently:

Reviewing a couple of my misses... On LR1 question 24, I picked C when the answer is A. On LR2 question 21, I picked C when the answer is E. When I go back post-test and look at these, it is relatively clear why TCR is TCR and why my selection isn't, but when I was taking the test on both of these questions I crossed out the other 3 answer choices and then just went with my gut - I literally couldn't pick a favorite.

The question I have is whether or not there is a trick to either of these problems that I am missing? Something that doesn't require taking the time to reason them out, but similar to Assumption Questions where you negate the answer choices and if it weakens the conclusion, it is TCR.


Hey! I looked at the questions real quick, although I haven't taken the entire exam. For LR1 question 24- it looks like a strengthen question to me. Are you following the MLSAT LR book? If so, you basically just use the core (so find the conclusion + premises) and then figure out where the gap is. Once you have the gap on strengthen questions, you want to find an answer that can help plug the gap. The key to strengthen questions seems to be to remember that you do not have to plug the gap entirely. It can strengthen the argument anywhere from say 1% all the way to 100%. Another tip (from Dave Hall) says to look for middle language on Strengthen questions (and weaken!).

As for LR2 question 21 - I think the correct answer was actually C, so you can give yourself another point for that! Have you seen Dave Hall's tips for what to do when you can get an answer down to 2 choices?


I used the Bibles for getting to know the questions. I'll see if I can locate the MLSAT stuff though. I don't want to completely ruin the Q if you are going to take 54 so SPOILER ALERT.

on LR1q24, I understand now that "cows given good-quality diets produce much more meat and milk than they would produce otherwise" essentially tells us that you could use less cows to get the same output, thus reducing the methane produced. I just don't see the "gap" that this covers (at least, I wouldn't have ever considered it were it not one of the answer choices). I'd just like to get a bit more formulaic in my answering of this question.

I typo'd, on LR2q21, I actually picked E when the answer is C. Wish I could get that extra point lol. 176 would have been niceeee.

I've got Dave Hall's stuff, which is what has gotten me to where I am already. Just having difficulty abstracting some of it.

iamrobk
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby iamrobk » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:57 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Two questions for those in attendance:

1. I seem to be performing a lot worse on the earlier practice tests (i.e. 30-38) than the practice tests from 2004 and after (i.e. PT 40 and above.) Should I be worried about this? The tests from these groups seems so starkly different, especially in regards to the difficulty of the logic games, with the earlier tests having much tougher games.

2. Is it really that bad if you revisit tests that you've taken portions of already? I practiced on the LG sections of a few of the newer tests just to make sure I got them, and although I haven't remembered any of the content when I took the full tests, I just want to make sure I'm not giving myself a sense of undeserved accomplishment when I score well.

The recent trend has (apparently, from what I've read on here) been towards harder games recently, so definitely do the older ones. FWIW I mostly did PT's like 20-40 when practicing for the October LSAT and I ended up scoring a point higher than I had on my best PT, so imo it's definitely worth it to do older PT's.

Ben Reilly
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby Ben Reilly » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:24 pm

iamrobk wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Two questions for those in attendance:

1. I seem to be performing a lot worse on the earlier practice tests (i.e. 30-38) than the practice tests from 2004 and after (i.e. PT 40 and above.) Should I be worried about this? The tests from these groups seems so starkly different, especially in regards to the difficulty of the logic games, with the earlier tests having much tougher games.

2. Is it really that bad if you revisit tests that you've taken portions of already? I practiced on the LG sections of a few of the newer tests just to make sure I got them, and although I haven't remembered any of the content when I took the full tests, I just want to make sure I'm not giving myself a sense of undeserved accomplishment when I score well.

The recent trend has (apparently, from what I've read on here) been towards harder games recently, so definitely do the older ones. FWIW I mostly did PT's like 20-40 when practicing for the October LSAT and I ended up scoring a point higher than I had on my best PT, so imo it's definitely worth it to do older PT's.


Thanks for the tip. I think I'll just start using the LG from the 30s and below as experimental sections since that's the only section I seem to have trouble with from that era.

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Olive
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby Olive » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:38 am

PT 56
LG -4
LR -0
LR -2
RC -0
94/175

PT 53
LR -1
LG -1
LR -0
RC -0
98/180

My first ever 180! Though I'm not getting too excited because PT 53 was unusually easy, especially LG. But I do feel more in command of the fundamentals of the test after drilling and doing less full timed PTs.

My worries: timing in all sections (especially LG/RC) and test-day nerves.

Any ideas on how to practice dealing with test day nerves other than simulating test-day conditions as much as possible? I try to get into test-day mode and think "pretend this is the real deal" but by the second section I can feel myself getting more and more relaxed and knowing that in a few hours I'll just be checking over this and it really isn't the real thing.

I'd really appreciate any help this!

Thank in advance!

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ss3825
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby ss3825 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:26 am

Olive wrote:PT 56
LG -4
LR -0
LR -2
RC -0
94/175

PT 53
LR -1
LG -1
LR -0
RC -0
98/180

My first ever 180! Though I'm not getting too excited because PT 53 was unusually easy, especially LG. But I do feel more in command of the fundamentals of the test after drilling and doing less full timed PTs.

My worries: timing in all sections (especially LG/RC) and test-day nerves.

Any ideas on how to practice dealing with test day nerves other than simulating test-day conditions as much as possible? I try to get into test-day mode and think "pretend this is the real deal" but by the second section I can feel myself getting more and more relaxed and knowing that in a few hours I'll just be checking over this and it really isn't the real thing.

I'd really appreciate any help this!

Thank in advance!


Wow. Those are great scores, especially considering you din't get -0 in LG.
Congrats.
Also, back to back -0 in RC? I am so jealous!

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Olive
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby Olive » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:57 pm

ss3825 wrote:Wow. Those are great scores, especially considering you din't get -0 in LG.
Congrats.
Also, back to back -0 in RC? I am so jealous!


Thank you! However, these are retakes for me (took them two years ago but a few of the LRs felt familiar). These RC seem to be a bit easier. I was unsure on a few answer choices as well so the -0 was a surprise for me.

I've been reading the MLSAT Reading Comprehension guide (thank you, Noah!), and I highly recommend it. It really helped me learn a good strategy and form for tackling RC. I still feel shaky about timing, but I do feel a bit more confident about attacking the passage.

A took a great piece of advice from the Manhattan LSAT book and wrote it on a sticky note on my desk: "Consistent, effective form and practice". I think the "consistent, effective form" part was what I was really lacking in RC. I don't think I've mastered it yet, but I feel like I'm heading in the right direction, if....

...I can get over test day nerves on the day-of! Any advice, guys? What about October-retakers?

xChiTowNx
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby xChiTowNx » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:49 pm

I agree about test day nerves. Whenever I drill I have this "Oh my gosh I'm gonna screw up and not ace this set of q's" feeling - it's more on LR since it used to be my weakness. I went from -20 in LR to -10 in LR and -12 in RC to -3 in RC in a month in a half, so I know I'm learning, it's just annoying how much nerves affect my practice.

With that said, I swear this guy in the study room is trolling me - he's also studying for the LSAT and he keeps on walking by and trying to look over at what I'm typing / books I'm drilling on.

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SA1928
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby SA1928 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:31 pm

barneytrouble wrote:
I used the Bibles for getting to know the questions. I'll see if I can locate the MLSAT stuff though. I don't want to completely ruin the Q if you are going to take 54 so SPOILER ALERT.

on LR1q24, I understand now that "cows given good-quality diets produce much more meat and milk than they would produce otherwise" essentially tells us that you could use less cows to get the same output, thus reducing the methane produced. I just don't see the "gap" that this covers (at least, I wouldn't have ever considered it were it not one of the answer choices). I'd just like to get a bit more formulaic in my answering of this question.

I typo'd, on LR2q21, I actually picked E when the answer is C. Wish I could get that extra point lol. 176 would have been niceeee.

I've got Dave Hall's stuff, which is what has gotten me to where I am already. Just having difficulty abstracting some of it.


Oh okay, I used the LRB too. I went through that entire book in preparation for the October exam, but parts of it felt a little too tedious at times, but I think I am going to go back to it for the questions I'm still struggling with after just completing the MLSAT LR book.

I guess the gap there was the fact that the author is pushing for better quality food to limit the methane production, but they never addressed the fact that the reason we have an increasing amount of cows (and thus an increasing amount of methane) is to meet the demand for milk and meat. It states that better quality diets could keep the methane production in check - but what if we need more cows in the future to keep pace with demand? Would the better quality diet keep the methane in check there too? So in order to make it stronger, we can seal up the gap, that a better quality diet also produces more milk and meat, which will better help us keep pace and slow the growing population of cows. That is how I read it at least. I wish it was more like a LG where the steps are clear cut - I keep trying to come up with little patterns and methods to make LR more like LG, but haven't been very successful yet! :( Hope my explanation made some sense.

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SA1928
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby SA1928 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:35 pm

xChiTowNx wrote:I agree about test day nerves. Whenever I drill I have this "Oh my gosh I'm gonna screw up and not ace this set of q's" feeling - it's more on LR since it used to be my weakness. I went from -20 in LR to -10 in LR and -12 in RC to -3 in RC in a month in a half, so I know I'm learning, it's just annoying how much nerves affect my practice.

With that said, I swear this guy in the study room is trolling me - he's also studying for the LSAT and he keeps on walking by and trying to look over at what I'm typing / books I'm drilling on.


Ahh I get that feeling on LR too! Especially at the end, I took Prep Test A today from SuperPrep, and on the last section of LR, I answered every question correct until the last 4, where I was nervous I wasn't going to finish (and then obvious anxiety took over) and got all 4 of them wrong. I need to get my timing in check, I think that will help me the most with test day nerves otherwise I have no idea what to do! :(

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the_pakalypse
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby the_pakalypse » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:54 pm

Are "claims" premises or conclusions, or could be either??

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SA1928
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby SA1928 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:09 pm

Study Session happening right now in the MLSAT room! Come join!! :)

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SA1928
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby SA1928 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:22 pm

Anyone interested in reviewing a PT this week?

barneytrouble
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby barneytrouble » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:48 am

I'm on break from PT 57 right now if you wanna do that one. MAUUUUUUVE DINOSSSSSSS what a rush that game is hahaha. I first took Dec 09, and consciously avoided PT 57 in my prep so that I wouldn't let my confidence get shaken after hearing all the horror stories. Game 4 in that section is a bitch too. I think I hypo'd every single question for dinos+game4.

barneytrouble
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby barneytrouble » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:31 am

barneytrouble wrote:I'm on break from PT 57 right now if you wanna do that one. MAUUUUUUVE DINOSSSSSSS what a rush that game is hahaha. I first took Dec 09, and consciously avoided PT 57 in my prep so that I wouldn't let my confidence get shaken after hearing all the horror stories. Game 4 in that section is a bitch too. I think I hypo'd every single question for dinos+game4.


Just finished up and it wasn't pretty.

LR1: -2
LR2: -3
LG: -0
RC: -4

For 92 raw/172 scaled. Felt like I could have 0'd the RC after I did it, but who am I kidding. Kicking myself over those LRs. I had a whole schedule set up for december but I am going to nix a couple of PTs and replace them with more drilling.

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GirlStop
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby GirlStop » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:47 pm

SA1928 wrote:Anyone interested in reviewing a PT this week?


I'm interested!

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ss3825
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby ss3825 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:08 pm

Is there a list anywhere which says which questions are formal logic questions? I wanted to practice diagramming.

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the_pakalypse
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby the_pakalypse » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:58 pm

PT 58:
LR: 0
RC: -1
LG: -1
Scaled: 180

First 180! :D .. really need to start eliminating those silly mistakes in LG though




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