December 2011 LSAT Study Group

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LSAT Blog
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby LSAT Blog » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:41 pm

barneytrouble wrote:
LSAT Blog wrote:
barneytrouble wrote:LSAT Blog I have always wondered.. are you one person? Or is it like a full on company with several employees all of whom post?


Haha, I got a real kick out of your question, Barney. I'm just one person.

Why do you ask?


Just wondering, I wouldn't want to put in all the work you do on your site/TLS myself, would definitely hire help. Appreciated either way!

Guys ok help me am I going crazy... trying to match up LRB sections with Kaplan Mastery, but there is no Justify the Conclusion section in KM.. is it just included in the Assumption section? Don't want to leave any stones unturned.


It's a lot of work, but I really enjoy it all. Glad you find it useful.

To answer your question about LRB, it's included in the KM Assumption section. Justify the Conclusion = Sufficient Assumption.

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Campagnolo
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby Campagnolo » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:04 pm

PT 53 S2
Game 2: confessing burglars. I got this game in about 7 mins the first time I did it, and then redid it recently and struggled. IIRC I had a much harder time with the inferences. More practice to catch the inferences, I suppose.

PT 54 S3
Game 1: six dancers on/off stage. I hate this game. I don't like these types of games, so any tips would be appreciated. I actually bought the Manhattan book solely for this game bc I wasn't getting it with Powerscore.
Game 2: review of 6 CDs: 7/7 correct
Game 3: cake w/ 6 layers: 5/6
Game 4: six contract bids: 6/6

PT 55 S4
Game 1: law students on trial teams: 5/6
Game 2: messages while on vacation. I really struggled with this game. I looked up the explanation on Manhattan's games forums but still struggled with it.
Game 3: productivity of night/day shifts. I did okay. I can make inferences for who can/cannot be at the ends of the diagram, but when it asks for things like who can't be third, that throws me off. This game was so-so.
Game 4: shuttle stops at four cities. Struggled through this one.

PT 56 S1
Game 1: sax auditions: 5/6
Game 2: moving furniture. Didn't even know where to start, really.
Game 3: trees in the park; 5/5, easy.
Game 4: executives visiting manufacturing plants: 4/7.

I worry that I'll get a group of 4 games that I can't deal with at all and completely ruin my score and my confidence. PT 54 was okay bc 3/4 games I could work on. My brain is fried!


Okay, hopefully I don't go into too much detail here, but I thought I'd try and help out on PT 54 Game 3.

First, write every rule and it's contrapositive underneath it. Some here advocate against writing out all the contrapositives, but I find it extremely helpful, and it only costs a couple of seconds.

The first two rules are clearly related, and so we have to figure out what's going on there. Because we have the contrapositives written out, I think the relationship between the two rules becomes more clear. Look at the sufficient side ONLY of the conditional statements and the contrapositives, and you should notice that every scenario for J and L is covered (that is, in or out). Following the rules to the logical conclusion, we see that one of J or L is in, and the other is out.

The third rule is pretty straight forward as long as we write out the contrapositive.

The fourth rule is interesting. J or K or L --> G. The contrapositive states: ~G --> ~J and ~K and ~L. If we look back to the first rule, we see that one of J or L must be in. Therefore, G must be in.

That's it. Just rule-drive the rest.

Edit: spelling and clarity.

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KevinP
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby KevinP » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:11 pm

@Olive, Maye.
December, from disclosed tests, generally has the most lenient curve (last 2 December tests both had -14) and both of them had harder than average games. But it's all pure speculation at this point...

moopness wrote:No idea, haven't really looked at the test all that much. I'm happy that you got a great score Kev, that's awesome! Any idea where you're applying?

Thanks! I'll blanket most of the T14 and I'll probably ED to Columbia (Above Columbia's median LSAT, slightly below Columbia's median GPA).

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tmon
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby tmon » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:34 pm

KevinP wrote:@Olive, Maye.
December, from disclosed tests, generally has the most lenient curve (last 2 December tests both had -14) and both of them had harder than average games. But it's all pure speculation at this point...

I agree with this and am planning to study accordingly. It's obviously not a sure thing, but seems quite likely.

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DonnaDraper
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby DonnaDraper » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:54 pm

Oct 2011 taker....I figured I would drop by this thread and give some advice on Games preparation. This advice is primarily geared toward people who are already pretty good at games (-3 or less), but want to avoid dropping the ball on test day.

1. In a timed Games section, there is no such thing as going too fast. Even if you think you are doing OK with time, push yourself to go faster.

2. When doing a timed section/PT and you prove an answer choice, don't waste time disproving the rest (you can do this when you review). Trust yourself, move on, and go back to it if you have time (I got this tip from Manhattan :-))

3. Practice giving yourself less time. Do games sections in 25-30 minutes. Do the easy games sections (like the mid-40's) in 20-25 minutes.

4. (And this might be controversial advice...but) Practice doing some Games sections UNTIMED but WITHOUT A MAIN DIAGRAM. In fact, maybe try to do everything mentally. I would not use this as your primary approach, but I did this occasionally and I thought that it helped. The most important thing in Games is not your diagram. Your diagram is there to help you go faster, but if you have a crappy diagram, it is not the end of the world. The main thing is to be able to mentally juggle all of the rules. If you are able to mentally juggle the rules well, I think this will help in emergency situations.

5. Take entire PT's with just Games.

6. Practice recognizing when a Game is difficult and when a Game is easy just from reading the rules. There is a good chance that the test will throw a time-sucking game in the 2 or 3 slot so you don't have time to finish. You need to know when to skip a Game.

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happyshapy
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby happyshapy » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:27 pm

DonnaDraper wrote:Oct 2011 taker....I figured I would drop by this thread and give some advice on Games preparation. This advice is primarily geared toward people who are already pretty good at games (-3 or less), but want to avoid dropping the ball on test day.

1. In a timed Games section, there is no such thing as going too fast. Even if you think you are doing OK with time, push yourself to go faster.

2. When doing a timed section/PT and you prove an answer choice, don't waste time disproving the rest (you can do this when you review). Trust yourself, move on, and go back to it if you have time (I got this tip from Manhattan :-))

3. Practice giving yourself less time. Do games sections in 25-30 minutes. Do the easy games sections (like the mid-40's) in 20-25 minutes.

4. (And this might be controversial advice...but) Practice doing some Games sections UNTIMED but WITHOUT A MAIN DIAGRAM. In fact, maybe try to do everything mentally. I would not use this as your primary approach, but I did this occasionally and I thought that it helped. The most important thing in Games is not your diagram. Your diagram is there to help you go faster, but if you have a crappy diagram, it is not the end of the world. The main thing is to be able to mentally juggle all of the rules. If you are able to mentally juggle the rules well, I think this will help in emergency situations.

5. Take entire PT's with just Games.

6. Practice recognizing when a Game is difficult and when a Game is easy just from reading the rules. There is a good chance that the test will throw a time-sucking game in the 2 or 3 slot so you don't have time to finish. You need to know when to skip a Game.


I would disagree with the first point. Never rush your read of the rules. Ever. It's so easy to mis-read a rule when rushing through your diagram.

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tonton
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby tonton » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:39 pm

Does anyone do the last 4 questions of LR first? I know they say the first ten questions should be done in 9/10 mins to make time for the last few, but, wouldn't it take the anxiety off when doing the difficult questions if you did them first? Any thoughts from anyone that has tried this.

barneytrouble
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby barneytrouble » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:44 pm

tonton wrote:Does anyone do the last 4 questions of LR first? I know they say the first ten questions should be done in 9/10 mins to make time for the last few, but, wouldn't it take the anxiety off when doing the difficult questions if you did them first? Any thoughts from anyone that has tried this.


I do 11-25, and then 1-10. Would never even consider switching back to doing them all in order.

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tonton
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby tonton » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:53 pm

barneytrouble wrote:
tonton wrote:Does anyone do the last 4 questions of LR first? I know they say the first ten questions should be done in 9/10 mins to make time for the last few, but, wouldn't it take the anxiety off when doing the difficult questions if you did them first? Any thoughts from anyone that has tried this.


I do 11-25, and then 1-10. Would never even consider switching back to doing them all in order.


Thanks, I think I'm going to try sticking with the different order too. I always find myself nervously anticipating the later part, makes sense to just get it out of the way.

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tonton
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby tonton » Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:02 pm

tonton wrote:
barneytrouble wrote:
tonton wrote:Does anyone do the last 4 questions of LR first? I know they say the first ten questions should be done in 9/10 mins to make time for the last few, but, wouldn't it take the anxiety off when doing the difficult questions if you did them first? Any thoughts from anyone that has tried this.


I do 11-25, and then 1-10. Would never even consider switching back to doing them all in order.


Thanks, I think I'm going to try sticking with the different order too. I always find myself nervously anticipating the later part, makes sense to just get it out of the way.



Although, I just read in the PS LRB that the ordering of the questions is not always consistent :roll: ..what to doo

Manhattan LSAT Noah
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:06 pm

I think this sort of technique is given more weight than it deserves. But, if I had to suggest a reordering, I'd do 1-15, then the last 2 of the section, and then make my way from 16-onwards. And, what I really suggest is that students learn how many they can get wrong to hit their goal score of the day, and then use that to let themselves decide which harders questions deserve extra time because they're within reach but simply dense, and which ones deserve a "forget you" and perhaps a second look with any extra time left over at the end of the section.

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Maye
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby Maye » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:00 pm

Campagnolo wrote:
Okay, hopefully I don't go into too much detail here, but I thought I'd try and help out on PT 54 Game 3.

First, write every rule and it's contrapositive underneath it. Some here advocate against writing out all the contrapositives, but I find it extremely helpful, and it only costs a couple of seconds.

The first two rules are clearly related, and so we have to figure out what's going on there. Because we have the contrapositives written out, I think the relationship between the two rules becomes more clear. Look at the sufficient side ONLY of the conditional statements and the contrapositives, and you should notice that every scenario for J and L is covered (that is, in or out). Following the rules to the logical conclusion, we see that one of J or L is in, and the other is out.

The third rule is pretty straight forward as long as we write out the contrapositive.

The fourth rule is interesting. J or K or L --> G. The contrapositive states: ~G --> ~J and ~K and ~L. If we look back to the first rule, we see that one of J or L must be in. Therefore, G must be in.

That's it. Just rule-drive the rest.

Edit: spelling and clarity.

You mean game 1, yeah? With the dancers. This was actually rather helpful, thank you.

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Maye
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby Maye » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:28 pm

Random question: has anyone ever attempted to bake the cake from PT54 (6 layers)? I feel like I might have to try it.

Edit: I want to bake it following all the constraints. I think that counts as test prep.

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tmon
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby tmon » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:55 pm

Maye wrote:Random question: has anyone ever attempted to bake the cake from PT54 (6 layers)? I feel like I might have to try it.

Edit: I want to bake it following all the constraints. I think that counts as test prep.

:lol: :lol: pics if you do, please

xChiTowNx
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby xChiTowNx » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:35 pm

Random Question:

Are the tests from Superprep harder than other PTS, or are they just February/unreleased tests?

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ss3825
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby ss3825 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:09 pm

I have been drilling games and I am still really slow on games and take more than 8 or 9 mins in a lot of the games. The type I have problems with most are grouping games. All this, after I have done each game atleast 3 times over.

Could it be so because I haven't been drilling and reviewing them right or because I don't have the basics down yet?

Also, would it be beneficial to get the Manhattan games book for grouping games. I have been using the powerscore method but I am not very happy with the results for grouping games.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

sportgirl234
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby sportgirl234 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:12 pm

the trick for grouping games (for me at least) is to make sure my diagram has almost slot filled in with an option, dual option or tri option... on most of these they can be established

I picked up manhattan and i think its decent but that getting your time down really comes from immediately seeing the inferences ... the more time you spend up front creating a thorough diagram the less time you will have to spend on the questions because you won't have to run through all of the hypothetical situations and can just reference the diagram

Goodluck!!

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ss3825
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby ss3825 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:59 pm

sportgirl234 wrote:the trick for grouping games (for me at least) is to make sure my diagram has almost slot filled in with an option, dual option or tri option... on most of these they can be established

I picked up manhattan and i think its decent but that getting your time down really comes from immediately seeing the inferences ... the more time you spend up front creating a thorough diagram the less time you will have to spend on the questions because you won't have to run through all of the hypothetical situations and can just reference the diagram

Goodluck!!


Thanks. I just realized that I have been rushing too much in the beginning to finish games on time. I took a slowed approach, and tried to get all the inferences, and tried to understand the game before going into the question, and my timing has improved considerably.
Although I need more practice to finish them in time, slowing down in the beginning has helped me a lot.

Thanks for the advice.

barneytrouble
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby barneytrouble » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:13 pm

Offtopic: My friend is a 2L at a Midwest T25 and recently struck out at OCI, saying he had trouble demonstrating ties. I told him he should have gotten a bunch of pay-as-you-go phones for like 10 bucks a pop from the different areas he was applying in. So like 1 phone number with an area code from st lous, 1 phone number with a cincinnati area code, etc. But he said doing that would've been super unethical. Verdict?

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GoldenGloves
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby GoldenGloves » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:42 pm

barneytrouble wrote:Offtopic: My friend is a 2L at a Midwest T25 and recently struck out at OCI, saying he had trouble demonstrating ties. I told him he should have gotten a bunch of pay-as-you-go phones for like 10 bucks a pop from the different areas he was applying in. So like 1 phone number with an area code from st lous, 1 phone number with a cincinnati area code, etc. But he said doing that would've been super unethical. Verdict?


What does unethical mean?

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noleknight16
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby noleknight16 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:58 am

Refamiliarized myself with grouping logic games, selection and division. Gonna do matching and hybrids after I wake up. After that, it's pretty much go time on the PTs. Got one whole month worth of PTs to do before the test. Let's do this thing. Also gonna pick up the Manhattan RC book and read inbetween PTs

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calidancer2
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby calidancer2 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:59 am

hey all- retaking in december. anyone else retaking this round and have a handy study schedule? i had taken a testmasters course and am now not really sure where to go/how to proceed. re-doing LR bible and am almost done with that now, and want to start doing 2-3 PT a week until the test. last time i did 4-section PTs and not 5-section, and on test day I got -2/3 in every section except the 5th (-8!?!?). so i'm guessing fatigue has something to do with it. LR is my weakest by far. i looked at LSAT blog but 3 months is too long! by the time i got my score and decided to retake i have a little over a month. anyone have any suggestions for me?

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calidancer2
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby calidancer2 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:59 am

noleknight16 wrote:Refamiliarized myself with grouping logic games, selection and division. Gonna do matching and hybrids after I wake up. After that, it's pretty much go time on the PTs. Got one whole month worth of PTs to do before the test. Let's do this thing. Also gonna pick up the Manhattan RC book and read inbetween PTs



how many PTs are you doing between now and test day?

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noleknight16
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby noleknight16 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:03 am

calidancer2 wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:Refamiliarized myself with grouping logic games, selection and division. Gonna do matching and hybrids after I wake up. After that, it's pretty much go time on the PTs. Got one whole month worth of PTs to do before the test. Let's do this thing. Also gonna pick up the Manhattan RC book and read inbetween PTs



how many PTs are you doing between now and test day?


I'm planning on one a day through the end of November, unless I'm too fatigued or I'm missing questions I shouldn't (then I'll go back to the basics and see what I'm doing wrong).

I'm sure every day will turn into 3-4 a week or so. It's tiring doing PTs

tronredo
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Re: December 2011 LSAT Study Group

Postby tronredo » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:11 am

struggling with this one

Preptest 16, Sept 2005, Logic Game #3




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