URM and the LSAT Observations

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Helicio
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby Helicio » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:39 pm

LOCK DIS.

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gsat
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby gsat » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:42 pm

I find it interesting that everyone is so amped up about whether the LSAT is racist, or URMs are lazy. Is this a ploy to distract from the fact that you are insecure about your numbers or accomplishments? Hard to believe that even at this level of education people can't just focus on themselves and what they have to accomplish. At the end of the day, when you've become a practicing attorney, will this all really matter? Not meaning to push any buttons...just an observation.

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Helicio
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby Helicio » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:47 pm

gsat wrote:I find it interesting that everyone is so amped up about whether the LSAT is racist, or URMs are lazy. Is this a ploy to distract from the fact that you are insecure about your numbers or accomplishments? Hard to believe that even at this level of education people can't just focus on themselves and what they have to accomplish. At the end of the day, when you've become a practicing attorney, will this all really matter? Not meaning to push any buttons...just an observation.


As a poor white dude with a messed up family, I'm always a little bit bitter that a richer URM in a stabler family may be able to get into a better law school than me even without an LSAT score as high as mine. (I'm bitter about legacy/donor admits as well.) Can't help it.

The above isn't a statement about what I think should be done about affirmative action, legacy, donors, or the LSAT scores of minorities; it's just how I feel. Can't change that.

But I do agree that some people--both URMs and whites/asians/middle easterners/Indians/etc.--get way too riled up about affirmative action. The best way for me to get into a good law school is to maintain my high GPA and study hard to earn a high LSAT score. Nothing law schools do in terms of changing policies will change this, unless they decide to make AA socioeconomic instead of purely race-based as it is now.

I still think this thread should be locked though. I come to the LSAT board to study for the LSAT, not to argue about shit like this.

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gsat
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby gsat » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:56 pm

Helicio wrote:
gsat wrote:I find it interesting that everyone is so amped up about whether the LSAT is racist, or URMs are lazy. Is this a ploy to distract from the fact that you are insecure about your numbers or accomplishments? Hard to believe that even at this level of education people can't just focus on themselves and what they have to accomplish. At the end of the day, when you've become a practicing attorney, will this all really matter? Not meaning to push any buttons...just an observation.


I still think this thread should be locked though. I come to the LSAT board to study for the LSAT, not to argue about shit like this.


+1

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Cade McNown
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby Cade McNown » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:13 pm

KingMenes wrote:If anything, the LSAT discriminates against students lacking the proper training in logical reasoning, analytical reasoning, and reading comprehension


I've been bamboozled!

flexityflex86
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby flexityflex86 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:16 pm

Helicio wrote:
gsat wrote:I find it interesting that everyone is so amped up about whether the LSAT is racist, or URMs are lazy. Is this a ploy to distract from the fact that you are insecure about your numbers or accomplishments? Hard to believe that even at this level of education people can't just focus on themselves and what they have to accomplish. At the end of the day, when you've become a practicing attorney, will this all really matter? Not meaning to push any buttons...just an observation.


As a poor white dude with a messed up family, I'm always a little bit bitter that a richer URM in a stabler family may be able to get into a better law school than me even without an LSAT score as high as mine. (I'm bitter about legacy/donor admits as well.) Can't help it.

The above isn't a statement about what I think should be done about affirmative action, legacy, donors, or the LSAT scores of minorities; it's just how I feel. Can't change that.

But I do agree that some people--both URMs and whites/asians/middle easterners/Indians/etc.--get way too riled up about affirmative action. The best way for me to get into a good law school is to maintain my high GPA and study hard to earn a high LSAT score. Nothing law schools do in terms of changing policies will change this, unless they decide to make AA socioeconomic instead of purely race-based as it is now.

I still think this thread should be locked though. I come to the LSAT board to study for the LSAT, not to argue about shit like this.

I agree.

Socioeconomic status would be a much fairer way to do it, but then we'd be communist, which makes our government paranoid.

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kwais
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby kwais » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:17 pm

I didn't read the whole thread because it's dumb, so excuse me if this has already been said, but OP did NOT tutor 2 or 3 thousand students in the last "few years" and certainly not in a fashion that allowed them to observe these trends. Does anyone else have a problem with this assertion?

socraticmethodman
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby socraticmethodman » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:21 pm

lol, how is this thread still going?

flexityflex86
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby flexityflex86 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:22 pm

kwais wrote:I didn't read the whole thread because it's dumb, so excuse me if this has already been said, but OP did NOT tutor 2 or 3 thousand students in the last "few years" and certainly not in a fashion that allowed them to observe these trends. Does anyone else have a problem with this assertion?

not personally - but me along with 100 other tutors who have rotated in or out during this period. i am also including people who did 1 session.

btw please don't attack my honesty. i am certainly not a liar.
Last edited by flexityflex86 on Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kwais
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby kwais » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:23 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
kwais wrote:I didn't read the whole thread because it's dumb, so excuse me if this has already been said, but OP did NOT tutor 2 or 3 thousand students in the last "few years" and certainly not in a fashion that allowed them to observe these trends. Does anyone else have a problem with this assertion?

not personally - but me along with 100 other tutors who have rotated in or out during this period. i am also including people who did 1 session.


so your observations are on behalf of 100 people? seems a little suspect

flexityflex86
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby flexityflex86 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:36 pm

kwais wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:
kwais wrote:I didn't read the whole thread because it's dumb, so excuse me if this has already been said, but OP did NOT tutor 2 or 3 thousand students in the last "few years" and certainly not in a fashion that allowed them to observe these trends. Does anyone else have a problem with this assertion?

not personally - but me along with 100 other tutors who have rotated in or out during this period. i am also including people who did 1 session.


so your observations are on behalf of 100 people? seems a little suspect

i own a tutoring company, and have been in touch with all of these students. nobody meets with a tutor without first having to deal with my annoyances.

futurelawstudent1
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby futurelawstudent1 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:47 pm

Not all races have the same average intelligence level (just as they don't all have the same average height or skin color). The groups that do well on the LSAT (whites and Asians) perform well on almost all other intelligence tests; the groups that do poorly on the LSAT (blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans) perform poorly on almost all other intelligence tests. Work ethic and other factors might have something to do with the score gap, but they explain only a small portion of it.

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:49 pm

IBTL

flexityflex86
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby flexityflex86 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:50 pm

futurelawstudent1 wrote:Not all races have the same average intelligence level (just as they don't all have the same average height or skin color). The groups that do well on the LSAT (whites and Asians) perform well on almost all other intelligence tests; the groups that do poorly on the LSAT (blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans) perform poorly on almost all other intelligence tests. Work ethic and other factors might have something to do with the score gap, but they only explain a small portion of it.

i think the value systems explain those test results. in many wealthier households, a father asks a daughter, "whose the smartest boy in the class?" in poorer ones, it is normally related to physical things or just money in itself.

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:55 pm

futurelawstudent1 wrote:Not all races have the same average intelligence level...

Image

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:56 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
Helicio wrote:As a poor white dude with a messed up family, I'm always a little bit bitter that a richer URM in a stabler family may be able to get into a better law school than me even without an LSAT score as high as mine. (I'm bitter about legacy/donor admits as well.) Can't help it.

I agree.

Socioeconomic status would be a much fairer way to do it, but then we'd be communist, which makes our government paranoid.

this was a great tag-team of terrible posts.

071816
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby 071816 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:02 pm

OP:

Image

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Blessedassurance
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby Blessedassurance » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:02 pm

I knew it was just a matter of time. To get in before the lock, I think at least 18 URM's were clearly disadvantaged by having the wrong tutor. All you have proved is that someone can be pretty bad at reasoning and still tutor the LSAT. You should have the decency to issue a refund.

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20121109
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby 20121109 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:05 pm

We were having a pretty decent discussion before.

It would suck if one guy would ruin it for everyone else. If you guys just ignore it, the discussion will probably continue without too much trouble.

But if everyone spazzes and screams oh, IBTL, then I will prob have to lock it. Let's not make it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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KingMenes
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby KingMenes » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:07 pm

Image

flexityflex86
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby flexityflex86 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:33 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:I knew it was just a matter of time. To get in before the lock, I think at least 18 URM's were clearly disadvantaged by having the wrong tutor. All you have proved is that someone can be pretty bad at reasoning and still tutor the LSAT. You should have the decency to issue a refund.

how is my reasoning off in my initial post?

you're right, i'm wrong. the lsat is clearly a racist test. there is no explanation for the disparity in scores.

maybe if you worked harder, and did not analyze scenarios in purely condescending terms instead of just assuming the LSAT is racist you would do better than a 165.

so i should issue refunds when we had over 7 times the 170s of the general population because one obnoxious idiot is offended i try to examine issues i think impede further progress rather than ignore them, and just say it's LSAC's fault for being racist?

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:43 pm

Distortion.

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20121109
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby 20121109 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:43 pm

SchopenhauerFTW wrote:Distortion.


My God. This.

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Jeffort
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby Jeffort » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:43 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
kwais wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:
kwais wrote:I didn't read the whole thread because it's dumb, so excuse me if this has already been said, but OP did NOT tutor 2 or 3 thousand students in the last "few years" and certainly not in a fashion that allowed them to observe these trends. Does anyone else have a problem with this assertion?

not personally - but me along with 100 other tutors who have rotated in or out during this period. i am also including people who did 1 session.


so your observations are on behalf of 100 people? seems a little suspect

i own a tutoring company, and have been in touch with all of these students. nobody meets with a tutor without first having to deal with my annoyances.


Since it has become suspect, for credibility purposes, what is the name of your tutoring company that tutored/taught several thousand students for the LSAT over the last few years? That is a LOT of LSAT students, especially if you are only talking about tutoring students and not including people that took a class or bought a book. If your company is really doing that kind of business in LSAT prep I'm sure I and many others on the board would recognize the company name since it certainly wouldn't qualify as a small local 'mom and pop' type prep biz.

flexityflex86
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Re: URM and the LSAT Observations

Postby flexityflex86 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:49 pm

given the sensitive nature of this subject, even though i know i only have good intentions and think i've been quite respectful, i do not want to publish the name with this forum as i think because of some of the posts from other users particularly the one about race intelligence, the mere association will hurt a brand name i've worked very hard to develop.

2000 students over 2 years is not that much. we're in 18 cities, and this means we generally average about 20 students per city for a given LSAT who at least have a first free half hour trial session with a tutor. it isn't so ridiculous. a lot of people i'm sure have heard of it. it's not mom and pop, but isn't a huge one. i'm not a millionaire. i dont even make a 100k, but do well.




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