Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

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suspicious android
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Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby suspicious android » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:45 pm

Interesting article about a challenge to the ABA's use of the LSAT and its adherence to the Americans with Disabilities Act.

I say give him a third LR section, if he can score well without games he's probably pretty sharp.

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/15/137179261/blind-law-student-claims-discrimination-in-testing

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dr123
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby dr123 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:49 pm

I firmly believe you can get at least 14-15 LG questions right without diagramming, maybe this guy just isn't too bright?

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incompetentia
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby incompetentia » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:50 pm

I didn't diagram. Also, this topic has been made like eight times in the Lounge.

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Bashy
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby Bashy » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:52 pm

Is Justice not blind? She doesn't need an excuse.

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suspicious android
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby suspicious android » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:54 pm

dr123 wrote:I firmly believe you can get at least 14-15 LG questions right without diagramming, maybe this guy just isn't too bright?


I think it's a pretty harsh judgment to call a blind guy dumb just because he doesn't do well on the part of the test that is by far the most visually oriented.

I think if I had someone read out the stimulus of say, the dinosaur game from a couple years ago, then ask me "If there is a green velociraptor and an yello iguanadon, then which of the following can be false?" My reaction would probably just be to try to stab him with my sharpest pencil.

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suspicious android
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby suspicious android » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:55 pm

incompetentia wrote:I didn't diagram. Also, this topic has been made like eight times in the Lounge.


You didn't diagram, but presumably you did look at the page?

Anyway, if it's a repost, sorry mods will be along to move/delete soon.

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dr123
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby dr123 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:58 pm

LG is just one section, this dude must have completely bombed LR and RC to get a score so low that Cooley rejected him, seeing as how Cooley takes 140-141 students.

When I took my first diag, I got 12/22 on LG without diagramming. With studying I'm sure I could have gotten up to at least 15/22 without diagramming. You don't diagram the first global question for games so that's 4 right there. Hell even with random guessing on the rest, that would probably put you at about 10 right.

Also, I didn't say he was dumb. I merely suggested that he might not be too bright.

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suspicious android
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby suspicious android » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:02 pm

dr123 wrote:Also, I didn't say he was dumb. I merely suggested that he might not be too bright.


Oh, sorry to have so drastically misrepresented your statement!

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PinkCow
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby PinkCow » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:02 pm

Bashy wrote:Is Justice not blind? She doesn't need an excuse.



Maggie Lizer???

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joebloe
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby joebloe » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:57 pm

...because of a test he says no one who's blind could possibly pass.


I'm sorry, but isn't something like this a classic wrong answer for LR flaw questions?

lsapplicant07
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby lsapplicant07 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:01 pm

Think about how many times a person may go back to look at what a particular rule was. Think about the benefits of being able to cross through answer choices and narrowing it down to two without having to keep them all straight in your head. I did a LG section from the screen one time (as opposed to printing it off) and was shocked by how much it slowed me down not to be able to strike through the ACs or mark ones that were possibilities etc, even though I was using scratch paper to diagram.

I think some of you are underestimating visual benefits other than diagramming.

Of course these other benefits would largely hold true across LSAT sections rather than being LG specific, but I still think that LG is probably more seriously impacted.

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Jeffort
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby Jeffort » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:16 pm

lsapplicant07 wrote:Think about how many times a person may go back to look at what a particular rule was. Think about the benefits of being able to cross through answer choices and narrowing it down to two without having to keep them all straight in your head. I did a LG section from the screen one time (as opposed to printing it off) and was shocked by how much it slowed me down not to be able to strike through the ACs or mark ones that were possibilities etc, even though I was using scratch paper to diagram.

I think some of you are underestimating visual benefits other than diagramming.

Of course these other benefits would largely hold true across LSAT sections rather than being LG specific, but I still think that LG is probably more seriously impacted.


LSAC does administer the test in Braille, so being able to quickly re-read a rule wouldn't be a big pain like it would be taking the test solely with a reader rather than a braille printed copy. Either way though, doing logic games without being able to draw and see diagrams undoubtedly puts blind students at a disadvantage that certainly impacts their score.

I wonder if the accommodations LSAC provides to blind students includes allowing them to use any of the devices they use daily for reading and writing and making notes.

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joebloe
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Re: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates

Postby joebloe » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:56 pm

I don't disagree that blind and visually-impaired individuals are at a distinct disadvantage on LG as well as on certain LR question types that lend themselves to diagramming, but I think the assertion that no blind individuals can pass it is a mistake.

The accommodation I'd hope to see is a Braille keyboard plus a thermal Braille display, which would let test-takers make short notes that they can rapidly read back/page through during the test, and of course that wipes itself out in between sections. At least that's the best I can think of for this problem.




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