Cancel?

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foamborn
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Cancel?

Postby foamborn » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:03 pm

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Cancel?

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:12 pm

From what you posted, your very worst scenario is like a -11, which is probably right at the curve. I think that if you're pretty certain that you will score there or better, you should keep it.

EDIT for spelling

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foamborn
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Re: Cancel?

Postby foamborn » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:18 pm

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Cancel?

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:35 pm

Those schools average scores so the best thing is to have a single, high score. You run the risk of not having a pretty solid score to fall back on if something happens in October.

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foamborn
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Re: Cancel?

Postby foamborn » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:37 am

I agree with both of your statements, and that's what's keeping me in this dilemma.

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kwais
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Re: Cancel?

Postby kwais » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:40 am

why did you study primarily from tests in the 20s and 30s?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Cancel?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:41 am

I guess the answer is in how strongly you believe you'll do better in October. If you were aiming for CCN, I would tell you to keep the score, but in your position, it's very tricky

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soj
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Re: Cancel?

Postby soj » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:44 am

Oh, come on. You might have gotten very lucky and gotten -0. Or even just a little lucky and -5. How can you throw that away? Don't cancel.

Also, I'm pretty sure low 170s + 3.87 is quite competitive for HYS. So if there's a generous curve, you could have gotten close to your worst case scenario (and let's face it, if it really was that stealthily difficult, it probably will be a pretty generous curve, no? at least that's what I'm telling myself) and still be ok.

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foamborn
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Re: Cancel?

Postby foamborn » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:51 am

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foamborn
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Re: Cancel?

Postby foamborn » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:56 am

soj wrote:Oh, come on. You might have gotten very lucky and gotten -0. Or even just a little lucky and -5. How can you throw that away? Don't cancel.

Also, I'm pretty sure low 170s + 3.87 is quite competitive for HYS. So if there's a generous curve, you could have gotten close to your worst case scenario (and let's face it, if it really was that stealthily difficult, it probably will be a pretty generous curve, no? at least that's what I'm telling myself) and still be ok.



I agree that I might have gotten lucky. But I'm not sure I agree that low 170s is competitive at those schools. And I'd really like to tell myself that there will be a generous curve. But why rely on luck and self-deception when you can practice a bit more and get a killer score? It's really the LG section that's ailing me..why did I have to mess up on the real test?

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soj
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Re: Cancel?

Postby soj » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:06 am

I see where you're coming from. As someone gunning for HYS + T14 full rides, I'm stressing out about mistakes I don't remember, too. But I would hate myself so much more if I found out (and let's face it, as much as I'm better off not finding out if I cancel, I'll do it out of curiosity) I canceled a 173+. And while HYS do average, I don't think retaking is an application killer. Yes, you'll have to score higher to overcome a low score than a cancel, but it's probably worth the risk, IMO. I don't think your chances of dipping below 170 are high.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Cancel?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:16 am

soj wrote:I see where you're coming from. As someone gunning for HYS + T14 full rides, I'm stressing out about mistakes I don't remember, too. But I would hate myself so much more if I found out (and let's face it, as much as I'm better off not finding out if I cancel, I'll do it out of curiosity) I canceled a 173+. And while HYS do average, I don't think retaking is an application killer. Yes, you'll have to score higher to overcome a low score than a cancel, but it's probably worth the risk, IMO. I don't think your chances of dipping below 170 are high.

Not sure if I misread you, but did you think that you would see a score if you cancel? You don't.

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soj
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Re: Cancel?

Postby soj » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:18 am

JamMasterJ wrote:Not sure if I misread you, but did you think that you would see a score if you cancel? You don't.

But you would eventually find out roughly how you did when the PT is released, as long as you remember generally which answers you chose.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Cancel?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:58 pm

soj wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:Not sure if I misread you, but did you think that you would see a score if you cancel? You don't.

But you would eventually find out roughly how you did when the PT is released, as long as you remember generally which answers you chose.

I guess. That's a pretty impressive memory

CanadianWolf
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Re: Cancel?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:36 pm

Your worst case is a minus 15 or a score of about 167. Keep your score as you probably did better than you think & any score above 170 is worth keeping even if targeting just the top 4 law schools.

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foamborn
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Re: Cancel?

Postby foamborn » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:24 am

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Calla Lily
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Re: Cancel?

Postby Calla Lily » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:30 am

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gggrra
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Re: Cancel?

Postby gggrra » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:04 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:From what you posted, your very worst scenario is like a -11, which is probably right at the curve. I think that if you're pretty certain that you will score there or better, you should keep it.

EDIT for spelling


Worst case scenario looks to be about -15, I think (3+4+4+4), which, is almost certain to be below 169.

foam, it seems like you've made your decision, but I think you should cancel. From my own experience, the earlier tests are a bit easier than the recent ones (maybe PT40 and later). This time around I was averaging like 174 on the recent PTs and 178 on the earlier ones (I'm only considering PTs that were not retakes). Also, the games section of the recent test have a slightly different feel (even though I can't really put my finger on exactly what the difference is), and at least for me, I have a little bit more trouble with them.
For me, I now really regret not cancelling in Feb. (thought I had a worst case scenario of -12 or -13, and I probably hit that since I didn't make 170) because now I feel pressured to get an even higher score to compensate. I think you should focus on new tests and retake in October. Also, I wouldn't write off that last 168 as a fluke, I'm more inclined to believe that it's because the more recent tests are more difficult.

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foamborn
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Re: Cancel?

Postby foamborn » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:38 pm

gggrra, you've pointed out precisely my fear. The reason I suggest that it's a fluke is that I took it at night, and I didn't even finish the last section. On the real test I finished all sections (except the games) with time to spare. When you took the test in Feb, what sort of feeling did you have afterward? And do you still believe HYS is within reach for you? I really appreciate the help guys. I would also say that, unlike soj, I would not hate myself for cancelling a great score. Hindsight is 20/20, but I think there is a right decision possible here based on imperfect information. If you make a 180 on this test, but cancel, and then make a 175 on the next test, have you made the right decision? I think so, if you truly felt there was a risk of making sub-170 on the first test. This might be the key to my decision...

However, Calla Lily's account makes me question if the sub-170 test is so bad.

Calla Lily wrote:I had a 167 for my first score and a 174 for my second and got into HLS (didn't apply to YS). My GPA is a little higher than yours, and certainly other factors in the application come into play, but having multiple LSATs in that range will not by itself bar you from at least H (and I imagine the same may apply for YS).


If you don't mind me asking, what was your GPA and how did the other factors help you get in?

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gggrra
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Re: Cancel?

Postby gggrra » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:31 pm

foamborn wrote:gggrra, you've pointed out precisely my fear. The reason I suggest that it's a fluke is that I took it at night, and I didn't even finish the last section. On the real test I finished all sections (except the games) with time to spare. When you took the test in Feb, what sort of feeling did you have afterward? And do you still believe HYS is within reach for you? I really appreciate the help guys. I would also say that, unlike soj, I would not hate myself for cancelling a great score. Hindsight is 20/20, but I think there is a right decision possible here based on imperfect information. If you make a 180 on this test, but cancel, and then make a 175 on the next test, have you made the right decision? I think so, if you truly felt there was a risk of making sub-170 on the first test. This might be the key to my decision...

However, Calla Lily's account makes me question if the sub-170 test is so bad.

Calla Lily wrote:I had a 167 for my first score and a 174 for my second and got into HLS (didn't apply to YS). My GPA is a little higher than yours, and certainly other factors in the application come into play, but having multiple LSATs in that range will not by itself bar you from at least H (and I imagine the same may apply for YS).


If you don't mind me asking, what was your GPA and how did the other factors help you get in?


I should have left the test feeling bad because I had to guess on about 5 or 6 Qs on games, a section that I usually ace. That should have been the signal to cancel for me, but I was just so relieved to finally be done and I didn't want to spend more time studying anymore that I chose to take the risk. I also felt pretty decent about LR/RC in Feb and made the hopeful assumption that my performance on these would offset the bad games. While I'll never know if this was the case, I'm pretty certain that my LR/RC in Feb were as good as I believed.

As for HYS, I think that I would definitely be more comfortable right now had I cancelled in Feb. I need a 175 on this June test for me to feel okay about my chances at HYS, but had I cancelled, I would've felt the same confidence with a 173. I think it comes down to how confident you are about your estimates (I tend to try to overestimate on purpose, but I guess it didn't really work that well for the Feb test). I also think you should think of the questions that you guessed on as missed questions; I think this was a key to my mistake back in Feb as well. I thought that out of the 5 or 6 guess, I could probably just get 2 right by dumb luck, and I'm almost certain that wasn't the case. So I'd re-evaluate, assuming that your guesses were wrong, and then assume that you got something in between your best and worst case scenario.

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foamborn
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Re: Cancel?

Postby foamborn » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:02 pm

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gggrra
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Re: Cancel?

Postby gggrra » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:16 pm

I'd say you're probably 170+. Since you normally ace games, cancelling might be a good choice, unless LR and RC felt better than usual. It's hard for me to say something really definitive since you have a higher GPA than I do, and so you probably have a little bit more room for a lower score.

haowu80s
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Re: Cancel?

Postby haowu80s » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:25 pm

If you are really sure that you will ace the test in October, and you don't have any other special plan for the fall semester, IMHO, cancelling the June test won't hurt you.

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foamborn
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Re: Cancel?

Postby foamborn » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:11 pm

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wolfpack37
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Re: Cancel?

Postby wolfpack37 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:43 pm

If you think you scored 170+ already, that's a good score, and having a good score on record really alleviated some of the stress of taking the test the second time around for me. Not sure if less stress = a better score yet, but it was a hell of a lot more "fun" taking the LSAT this June than it was in February for me.

That said, if you score lower than 170, that would probably add more stress taking it the second time around, so really it just depends how you feel about this June test.

Judging by your guesses, and hoping for a little luck, it SOUNDS like you are right around that 170 edge, maybe a bit above it. My $.02, keep it.




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