Security Cancellation Help!

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paratactical
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby paratactical » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:32 am

Cilence13 wrote:The problem is that the rules are vague.

No cellphones are allowed in the test center. But what is the test center? If the LSAC proctors are collecting cell phones in the building it's reasonable to think the building is not the test center right? But suddenly this year the whole building now counts as the test center?

Further, the signs they put up about cellphones don't reflect the same rules as the rules on their website. The signs just say you can't have a phone during the test or the break. According to that wording it seems fine to turn your phone in (especially considering that that is how they ran things 6 months ago).

It's just what you get when you have a government type entity that does not have to answer to or compete with anyone (think DMV). You get a bunch of stupid rules and people on power trips and an institution that adopts idiotic policies like "no tolerance" because they don't care if they dick around with people's futures.. Because hey, for everyone they kick out of the test, there's another $100 in their pocket.

It's a funny coincidence that the reason I want to do law in the first place is because I would love to stick it to these types of people and institutions.


It sounds like your testing center was breaking the rules 6 months ago. When I took the LSAT years ago, they didn't collect phones at all and it led to a bunch of people stashing cellphones in the bushes all around the building. It's not that the rules have changes, it's that whatever testing center you were at 6 months ago was not following the rules.

Cilence13
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Cilence13 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:29 pm

I'm betting that what happened was not that there was a change in polocy. Instead I think they were just breaking policy 6 months ago. However, they didn't even tell us 6 months ago that they were not in compliance with the official policy.

So because of LSAC's proctors' actions, I received the incorrect interpretation of LSAC's policy. Which then caused me to get screwed last Monday.

Even if they had complied with their policy and kicked everyone out in Oct, At least we would have know the policy for this June test. But now I'm going to miss early decision.

The least they can do is give me a free re-test and take the irregularity off my record.

I've got the numbers to go to Harvard/Yale/etc. This really screws me because now I'll miss Early Decision. What I really should do is sue them for damages.

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Jeffort
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Jeffort » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:17 pm

Cilence13 wrote:I'm betting that what happened was not that there was a change in polocy. Instead I think they were just breaking policy 6 months ago. However, they didn't even tell us 6 months ago that they were not in compliance with the official policy.

So because of LSAC's proctors' actions, I received the incorrect interpretation of LSAC's policy. Which then caused me to get screwed last Monday.

Even if they had complied with their policy and kicked everyone out in Oct, At least we would have know the policy for this June test. But now I'm going to miss early decision.

The least they can do is give me a free re-test and take the irregularity off my record.

I've got the numbers to go to Harvard/Yale/etc. This really screws me because now I'll miss Early Decision. What I really should do is sue them for damages.



October scores are reported in time for early decision applications, you are not screwed on the deadlines. Don't bring a phone into the building next time, the policy is pretty clear. You walk in only with a ziplock bag of pencils and stuff plus your admission ticket and ID.

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paratactical
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby paratactical » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:55 pm

Cilence13 wrote:I What I really should do is sue them for damages.

Yeah. That's a great idea. Let us know how it goes!

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Magnolia
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Magnolia » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:18 pm

paratactical wrote:
Cilence13 wrote:I What I really should do is sue them for damages.

Yeah. That's a great idea. Let us know how it goes!

:shock: Sibley has a sibling?

Cilence13
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Cilence13 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:51 pm

Really? Oct is early enough for early decision? That's good news.

I guess that just means more time to study.

Screw 180, I'm going to get a f**** 190 and then stick it up LSAC's a**.

:D

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bjsesq
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby bjsesq » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:04 pm

paratactical wrote:
Cilence13 wrote:I What I really should do is sue them for damages.

Yeah. That's a great idea. Let us know how it goes!


Holy fuck, not again.

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Cartman
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Cartman » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:33 pm

paratactical wrote:
Cilence13 wrote:The problem is that the rules are vague.

No cellphones are allowed in the test center. But what is the test center? If the LSAC proctors are collecting cell phones in the building it's reasonable to think the building is not the test center right? But suddenly this year the whole building now counts as the test center?

Further, the signs they put up about cellphones don't reflect the same rules as the rules on their website. The signs just say you can't have a phone during the test or the break. According to that wording it seems fine to turn your phone in (especially considering that that is how they ran things 6 months ago).

It's just what you get when you have a government type entity that does not have to answer to or compete with anyone (think DMV). You get a bunch of stupid rules and people on power trips and an institution that adopts idiotic policies like "no tolerance" because they don't care if they dick around with people's futures.. Because hey, for everyone they kick out of the test, there's another $100 in their pocket.

It's a funny coincidence that the reason I want to do law in the first place is because I would love to stick it to these types of people and institutions.


It sounds like your testing center was breaking the rules 6 months ago. When I took the LSAT years ago, they didn't collect phones at all and it led to a bunch of people stashing cellphones in the bushes all around the building. It's not that the rules have changes, it's that whatever testing center you were at 6 months ago was not following the rules.


Well isn't that half the problem? The lack of uniformity amongst testing centers and proctors? We may very well agree that the proctors at the testing center he was at 6 months ago were not following the rules, but because he was able to submit his cell phone easily the first time it's not unreasonable to think he should be able to again, ESPECIALLY if it's the exact same center.

The bottom line is there's a very fine line between wanting to make sure people don't bring cell phone's into the testing center on one hand and being overzealous on the other hand. They are dealing with people's dreams and future's here, and they're playing awfully fast and loose.

Echoing what another poster in here said, it also brings up major questions about what constitutes a "test center." Is the testing center the entire building that the test is being housed in, even if it's only being housed in one small room in the corner of it? Or is the test center the room itself? Or perhaps the entire floor the rooms on? For example, I took the test at a hotel. I sat in the lobby with my girlfriend playing on my iphone because I got there an hour and a half early. When time came, I handed her the phone and went downstairs to the level it was being held at. I checked in and took the test.

The story the original poster gave seems very similar. And in fact what she did was actually DONE by another member at my testing location and has been done at the time I took it before and other times I've heard that it was taken. People stash phones in bushes (behind rocks at one place I took it) in corners of rooms, etc. Hell, the administrators/proctors at my center said that if you have a phone you can leave it on the table in the back (outside of the room, mind you...no phones allowed in there, of course) at your own risk.

This lack of uniformity is dangerous, especially when peoples dream's and future's hang in the balance.
Last edited by Cartman on Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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glitter178
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby glitter178 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:44 pm

i dunno. it sounds like that show parking wars where people get sooooooo effing pissed off at the meter person when he/ she gives them a ticket because "i park here all the time." just like with so many other rules and laws, just because you got away with it once doesn't mean you'll get away with it again.

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Cartman
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Cartman » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:42 pm

glitter178 wrote:i dunno. it sounds like that show parking wars where people get sooooooo effing pissed off at the meter person when he/ she gives them a ticket because "i park here all the time." just like with so many other rules and laws, just because you got away with it once doesn't mean you'll get away with it again.


That's a horribly faulty analogy: it'd be more like having a meter person say "you can park here, it's okay" one day and then give the guy a ticket the next day when he parks there. If the proctors/administrators (aka meter) hold on to the phone when its willingly surrendered one day (aka let the guy park there) but kick him out of the test the next time its tried (aka give him a ticket) then its blatant stupidity.

I'm not arguing here for a rule that says proctors should hold on to phones when asked either. That would be silly - having 100 phones that need to be redistributed after the test would be a huge timewaste and is a bad idea in general. But they shouldn't have dismissed him for it, either. They should have said they could not hold on to it for him and that he either needs to go put it in his car, stash it somewhere outside the test center, or leave.

Reasonableness is reasonable?

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jump_man
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby jump_man » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:24 am

Cartman wrote:This lack of uniformity is dangerous peoples dream's and future's hang in the balance.


It sounds like the real difference is between those people who admit they have a cell phone, are given a notice that they violated test policy, and are permitted to continue with the test - and then on the other hand, those who are completely dismissed from the test center without being allowed to take the test. I can't think of a single way anyone could possibly cheat without bringing whatever illicit electronic device they have into the actual test room, but I guess policies are policies.

joebloe wrote:You may well need your cell phone if you can't drive yourself to the testing center. Arranging a pick-up is very difficult given LSAC claims testing can take up to seven hours. And good luck finding a payphone these days.


This was my issue - I took the LSAT in the hood, and I explained to LSAC that I needed my cell phone for my personal safety. Say what you will about this being a BS excuse, but I included this fact in my appeal letter to the LSAC (I also explained that I received no unfair advantage over other test takers when I surrendered my phone), and LSAC rescinded my security violation and released my score.

If in doubt, write an appeal.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:34 am

Cilence13 wrote:I've got the numbers to go to Harvard/Yale/etc.

If that's true, why are you taking the LSAT again? Why would you care about the effect on early decision since neither of those schools have ED? Why would you bring up your credentials when it doesn't actually support your argument and only serves as a not-so-subtle brag?

These are my questions.




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