Security Cancellation Help!

helpthisgirl
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Security Cancellation Help!

Postby helpthisgirl » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:25 am

Hey smart forum members,

I went into a test center with headphones playing from my iphone. I turned off the iphone and put all my stuff in a backpack and put it in a corner of a hallway before walking up stairs to sit for the LSAT (check-in was upstairs).

An admin saw my cell phone (well away from the test room) as I was putting it away and untangling my headphones and I was dismissed from the exam nearly 45 min before it started.

I am so scared and I do not know what happens next. I wanted to cry.

I think this is an automatic "irregularity" because...

(1) LSAC says they have a no-tolerance policy on electronics
http://www.lsac.org/jd/LSAT/day-of-test.asp in which they say you get a "security cancellation" automatically for electronics

and (2) "security cancellation" is listed under the heading of "irregularity" or test circumstance in the following LSAC page.
http://www.lsac.org/jd/lsat/irregularities.asp

So at least it is not a "misconduct." (I think there is some difference between misconducts and irregularities).

I am concerned about what will happen and what will appear on my record. I in no way cheated; I literally just was listening to music and put everything away after entering and that went my LSAT.

Does anyone know what I should do?

...or...How serious is this?

I wasn't cross-bubbling or anything like that, heck -- I didn't even get near the test room, so I am just hoping that there will be some way for law schools to know this crucial difference from my report.

Cordially,
Girl in dire need of smart lsat forum help!
Last edited by helpthisgirl on Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:31 am, edited 3 times in total.

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joebloe
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby joebloe » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:27 am

I think your score report comes with LSAC's summary of what happened. It'll probably say something along the lines of "dismissed from test center for possession of prohibited electronic devices".

helpthisgirl
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby helpthisgirl » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:21 am

But how much of a problem is this?

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glitter178
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby glitter178 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:24 am

Are we sure the proctor can dismiss for this? If you hadn't yet checked in, I'm not sure you can be dismissed....

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pkrtbx
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby pkrtbx » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:31 am

glitter178 wrote:Are we sure the proctor can dismiss for this? If you hadn't yet checked in, I'm not sure you can be dismissed....


I think they can. At my testing center, they had us in a waiting room in a separate building; they came in before they opened up the testing center building (where we also checked in) and told us that if we had a phone or any electronic device in the actual testing building, whether before check-in or not, that we would be asked to leave. I guess it would depend on the center.

Tainted_Praise
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Tainted_Praise » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:05 am

Yo... What in the world is up with some of these power hungry proctors? These people seriously have no fucking lives... They just want to try and fuck someone else over because they didn't reach their dreams. Smfh. This is fucking ridiculous. I am so angry for you.

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jump_man
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby jump_man » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:02 am

So they didn't even let you take the test? That's so lame - but seriously, if they cancel your score and mark you down for a test-center irregularity, I would immediately write a letter of appeal to LSAC. Two years ago I took the LSAT in Los Angeles, and for a variety of reasons, I needed to bring my cell phone onto the premises of the test center. Once I got to the center, I informed the staff at the center that I had a cell phone; they proceeded to hold the phone for me until I finished taking the test, but they also issued a warning notice to me that I was in violation of test policies. One month later, when I expected to receive my score, I instead got a notice that my score had been cancelled for a security violation (for being in possession of a cell phone).

The next week, I wrote a letter of appeal to LSAC in which I apologized for my transgression, and made it very clear that I in no way received an unfair advantage from my actions (I also indicated that my possession of a cell phone was a matter of necessity). The appeal worked and I had my score released (and the violation removed from my record) a few weeks later.

So, long story short, all is not lost. Just write a letter of appeal to LSAC telling them that you are sorry, and that you did not receive any kind of unfair advantage over other test takers. Worst case scenario you waste a few cents on postage, best case scenario you get the violation take off your record. Either way, sorry for your very disappointing experience, and best of luck with your appeal!

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joebloe
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby joebloe » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:50 am

jump_man wrote:So they didn't even let you take the test? That's so lame - but seriously, if they cancel your score and mark you down for a test-center irregularity, I would immediately write a letter of appeal to LSAC. Two years ago I took the LSAT in Los Angeles, and for a variety of reasons, I needed to bring my cell phone onto the premises of the test center. Once I got to the center, I informed the staff at the center that I had a cell phone; they proceeded to hold the phone for me until I finished taking the test, but they also issued a warning notice to me that I was in violation of test policies. One month later, when I expected to receive my score, I instead got a notice that my score had been cancelled for a security violation (for being in possession of a cell phone).

The next week, I wrote a letter of appeal to LSAC in which I apologized for my transgression, and made it very clear that I in no way received an unfair advantage from my actions (I also indicated that my possession of a cell phone was a matter of necessity). The appeal worked and I had my score released (and the violation removed from my record) a few weeks later.

So, long story short, all is not lost. Just write a letter of appeal to LSAC telling them that you are sorry, and that you did not receive any kind of unfair advantage over other test takers. Worst case scenario you waste a few cents on postage, best case scenario you get the violation take off your record. Either way, sorry for your very disappointing experience, and best of luck with your appeal!


Wow! I was always under the impression that when they canceled your score, that was it.

Also, I was informed at my center that possession of a cell phone would result uniformly in ejection from the testing center. Not sure why the proctors even asked if anybody had them at that point.

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DocHawkeye
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby DocHawkeye » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:29 am

Tainted_Praise wrote:Yo... What in the world is up with some of these power hungry proctors? These people seriously have no fucking lives... They just want to try and fuck someone else over because they didn't reach their dreams. Smfh. This is fucking ridiculous. I am so angry for you.


They're there to do a job and make sure everyone has substantially the same testing experience. How hard is it just to follow the rules? Electronic devices are prohibited. There are no exceptions. Duh...

Cilence13
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Cilence13 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:13 pm

I'm almost in the same boat as you.

I took the LSAT in October and they collected phones at check-in. Yesterday I tried to hand them my phone at check-in and they kicked me out. Same place same proctors.

I guess among all their policies (spoken and unspoken) "be reasonable" is not one of them. If this affects my ability to get into top Law schools (more than just having to take the test in Oct) I will loose my already tiny amount of faith in humanity.

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jump_man
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby jump_man » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:29 pm

joebloe wrote:
jump_man wrote:So they didn't even let you take the test? That's so lame - but seriously, if they cancel your score and mark you down for a test-center irregularity, I would immediately write a letter of appeal to LSAC. Two years ago I took the LSAT in Los Angeles, and for a variety of reasons, I needed to bring my cell phone onto the premises of the test center. Once I got to the center, I informed the staff at the center that I had a cell phone; they proceeded to hold the phone for me until I finished taking the test, but they also issued a warning notice to me that I was in violation of test policies. One month later, when I expected to receive my score, I instead got a notice that my score had been cancelled for a security violation (for being in possession of a cell phone).

The next week, I wrote a letter of appeal to LSAC in which I apologized for my transgression, and made it very clear that I in no way received an unfair advantage from my actions (I also indicated that my possession of a cell phone was a matter of necessity). The appeal worked and I had my score released (and the violation removed from my record) a few weeks later.

So, long story short, all is not lost. Just write a letter of appeal to LSAC telling them that you are sorry, and that you did not receive any kind of unfair advantage over other test takers. Worst case scenario you waste a few cents on postage, best case scenario you get the violation take off your record. Either way, sorry for your very disappointing experience, and best of luck with your appeal!


Wow! I was always under the impression that when they canceled your score, that was it.

Also, I was informed at my center that possession of a cell phone would result uniformly in ejection from the testing center. Not sure why the proctors even asked if anybody had them at that point.



Yeah, I've heard conflicting things - but it might be different if you willingly surrender an electronic device, rather than have it taken from you by force. Either way, those of you who had devices confiscated should definitely write a letter of appeal. You have nothing to lose, and nobody wants a security violation on their record . . . especially not when taking the bar exam.

mrwarre85
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:39 pm

pkrtbx wrote:
glitter178 wrote:Are we sure the proctor can dismiss for this? If you hadn't yet checked in, I'm not sure you can be dismissed....


I think they can. At my testing center, they had us in a waiting room in a separate building; they came in before they opened up the testing center building (where we also checked in) and told us that if we had a phone or any electronic device in the actual testing building, whether before check-in or not, that we would be asked to leave. I guess it would depend on the center.


Our lady asked us to go put our cell phones in our car if we had them. This was after she had read all the instructions and right before we started the test.

Cilence13
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Cilence13 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:32 pm

Yeah.. I guess I just got unlucky in that I had hard-ass proctors.

I wish the whole test experience was organized in a more uniform, reasonable way.

hazelnutpark
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby hazelnutpark » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:14 pm

Did the proctor ask for your name or the ticket? If they don't know who you are, they can only mark you as "absent." In that case, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

If the proctor did ask for your name, then I'd suggest you contact LSAC.

Cilence13
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Cilence13 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:44 pm

Yeah they have my name and my ticket/picture.

The way it worked in Oct was that the test takers handed in their ticket and then the proctors took the test takers phones. When I tried to hand in my phone after signing in this time they told me to leave.

It's not like I did anything unethical (which I understand is the big worry with getting an irregularity notice). So I am going to push LSAC to acknowledge that fact in their final report (if they even make one).

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lsater180
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby lsater180 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:09 am

The LSAC is extra cautious because of one stolen LSAT, which later became known as The Official LSAT with Explanations, Volume One.

It was administered in February 1997.
http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/dt/V ... y.45c.html

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joebloe
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby joebloe » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:41 am

lsater180 wrote:The LSAC is extra cautious because of one stolen LSAT, which later became known as The Official LSAT with Explanations, Volume One.

It was administered in February 1997.
http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/dt/V ... y.45c.html


The guy produced a switchblade to ward off someone who was pursuing him, and they call it "armed robbery"?

Also kind of shaking my head at the half-mill they claim it would have cost to make a new test.

Audio Technica Guy
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:56 am

joebloe wrote:
lsater180 wrote:The LSAC is extra cautious because of one stolen LSAT, which later became known as The Official LSAT with Explanations, Volume One.

It was administered in February 1997.
http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/dt/V ... y.45c.html


The guy produced a switchblade to ward off someone who was pursuing him, and they call it "armed robbery"?

Also kind of shaking my head at the half-mill they claim it would have cost to make a new test.


I can kind of understand their point because LSAC is on a tight schedule with regards to the number of questions they have properly evaluated during experimentals. That is why they don't disclose the feb test, because they will recycle those questions. Otherwise they run out of questions. Losing an entire tests worth of evaluated questions would really put them behind the 8 ball as far as having well tested questions.

It's not like they can just write a test, eyeball the scale and say "let's roll!" It was also conjectured that this is why there was a relative rash of items removed from scoring in the aftermath of that test, because some questions were released into the wild before they were adequately tested.

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Jeffort
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Jeffort » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:35 pm

lsater180 wrote:The LSAC is extra cautious because of one stolen LSAT, which later became known as The Official LSAT with Explanations, Volume One.

It was administered in February 1997.
http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/dt/V ... y.45c.html


There is also the guy that tried to bribe LSAC employees for an advanced copy of the test by putting notes on the windows of cars in the LSAC headquarters parking lot. He set up a meeting to do a cash for the test exchange at a fast food joint but ended up meeting with undercover FBI agents that arrested him in a sting.

http://www.lawcrossing.com/article/3226 ... Jail-Time/

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paratactical
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby paratactical » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:42 pm

Am I the only one who feels no sympathy for people who can't even be bothered to read and follow the simplest of rules? There is absolutely no reason you need a cellphone with you for one afternoon that wouldn't be reason enough to skip the test completely. Grow up and learn to follow the regulations.

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gggrra
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby gggrra » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:47 pm

paratactical wrote:Am I the only one who feels no sympathy for people who can't even be bothered to read and follow the simplest of rules? There is absolutely no reason you need a cellphone with you for one afternoon that wouldn't be reason enough to skip the test completely. Grow up and learn to follow the regulations.


+1

I remember life before cell phones... so it is possible to part with your phone for 4 hours

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joebloe
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby joebloe » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:48 pm

paratactical wrote:Am I the only one who feels no sympathy for people who can't even be bothered to read and follow the simplest of rules? There is absolutely no reason you need a cellphone with you for one afternoon that wouldn't be reason enough to skip the test completely. Grow up and learn to follow the regulations.


You may well need your cell phone if you can't drive yourself to the testing center. Arranging a pick-up is very difficult given LSAC claims testing can take up to seven hours. And good luck finding a payphone these days.

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paratactical
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby paratactical » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:50 pm

joebloe wrote:
paratactical wrote:Am I the only one who feels no sympathy for people who can't even be bothered to read and follow the simplest of rules? There is absolutely no reason you need a cellphone with you for one afternoon that wouldn't be reason enough to skip the test completely. Grow up and learn to follow the regulations.


You may well need your cell phone if you can't drive yourself to the testing center. Arranging a pick-up is very difficult given LSAC claims testing can take up to seven hours. And good luck finding a payphone these days.

There are alternatives to taking a cell phone with you that don't break the rules. It's not like these are particularly complex rules. You can't take your cell phone with you into most courts and some courts won't hold them at security. You need to be able to adapt and adjust to rules and follow them completely or deal with the reprecussions.

Cilence13
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby Cilence13 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:19 pm

The problem is that the rules are vague.

No cellphones are allowed in the test center. But what is the test center? If the LSAC proctors are collecting cell phones in the building it's reasonable to think the building is not the test center right? But suddenly this year the whole building now counts as the test center?

Further, the signs they put up about cellphones don't reflect the same rules as the rules on their website. The signs just say you can't have a phone during the test or the break. According to that wording it seems fine to turn your phone in (especially considering that that is how they ran things 6 months ago).

It's just what you get when you have a government type entity that does not have to answer to or compete with anyone (think DMV). You get a bunch of stupid rules and people on power trips and an institution that adopts idiotic policies like "no tolerance" because they don't care if they dick around with people's futures.. Because hey, for everyone they kick out of the test, there's another $100 in their pocket.

It's a funny coincidence that the reason I want to do law in the first place is because I would love to stick it to these types of people and institutions.

WilliamDeWrites
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Re: Security Cancellation Help!

Postby WilliamDeWrites » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:34 am

I gotta be honest with you, I don't think you're remembering the signs correctly - the ones I saw were pretty clear: no cell phones, period. The head guy at my center made it very clear that "possessing" a cell phone is a violation, not using. And no one was collecting cell phones - everyone who had one was told to go put it in their cars or go home. One of the proctors told me that LSAC is really cracking down on cell phones b/c there's been a rash of cell phone cheating. I'm guessing that they're going to be real hard asses about this.

As for the OP, I think since you didn't actually get checked in, you don't get a security cancellation - what the heck are they going to cancel? My guess is that you're probably just considered an absentee.




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