what? a photograph?

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joebloe
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby joebloe » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:11 am

I took mine at home with my DSLR on a tripod, got it printed at Walmart's one hour photo department. It was like $0.15 after taxes.

And it was NOT "regulation" dimensions or composition at all. It was 4:3 aspect ratio, landscape orientation, and actually cut off a small portion of my large hair (which I'm finally getting cut tomorrow). Whatever. At least they didn't ask for an 8x10 glossy headshot.

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baconpuffs
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby baconpuffs » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:03 am

capsfan wrote:In a bit of a panic now, didn't see anywhere where it says the photo must be on photo paper. Took the LSAT today and attached a picture I took myself and printed on copy paper. Proctors didn't seem to have a problem with it, is this serious enough to get my score cancelled? Where does it actually say it must be on photo paper?

I did as well, but I think we're fine. This is the exact text of the regulation, as printed on our tickets:

"In addition, all candidates must attach to their ticket a recent photograph (taken within the last six months) showing only the face and shoulders. The photograph must be clear enough so there is no doubt about the test taker's identity, and must be no larger than 2 x 2 inches (5 x 5 cm) and no smaller than 1 x 1 inch (3 x 3 cm). Your face in the photo must show you as you look on the day of the test (for example, with or without a beard). The photograph will be retained by LSAC only as long as needed to assure the authenticity of test scores and to protect the integrity of the testing process."

Nothing about it being a "real" photo. I don't know what mushybrain was talking about.

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Jeffort
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby Jeffort » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:13 pm

Even though it's now a moot point:

World English Dictionary
photograph (ˈfəʊtəˌɡrɑːf, -ˌɡræf)

— n
1. Often shortened to: photo
an image of an object, person, scene, etc, in the form of a print or slide recorded by a camera on photosensitive material

Plain paper does not qualify as photosensitive material.

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joebloe
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby joebloe » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:16 pm

Jeffort wrote:Even though it's now a moot point:

World English Dictionary
photograph (ˈfəʊtəˌɡrɑːf, -ˌɡræf)

— n
1. Often shortened to: photo an image of an object, person, scene, etc, in the form of a print or slide recorded by a camera on photosensitive material

Plain paper does not qualify as photosensitive material.


The photo paper they make digital prints on these days is not photosensitive. With one very special exception (lightjet, which is an awesome idea), digital prints are made with a very large inkjet printer.

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Jeffort
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby Jeffort » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:29 pm

joebloe wrote:
Jeffort wrote:Even though it's now a moot point:

World English Dictionary
photograph (ˈfəʊtəˌɡrɑːf, -ˌɡræf)

— n
1. Often shortened to: photo an image of an object, person, scene, etc, in the form of a print or slide recorded by a camera on photosensitive material

Plain paper does not qualify as photosensitive material.


The photo paper they make digital prints on these days is not photosensitive. With one very special exception (lightjet, which is an awesome idea), digital prints are made with a very large inkjet printer.


Maybe the dictionaries have not caught up yet but since you seem to be into photography hopefully you agree that it means photo quality paper rather than copy machine grade paper.

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Dany
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby Dany » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:32 pm

I think that means that the camera recorded an image onto photosensitive material before it was made into a print or slide.

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Jeffort
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby Jeffort » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:29 pm

Dany wrote:I think that means that the camera recorded an image onto photosensitive material before it was made into a print or slide.


No. It is used as a noun and therefore refers to the physical object you attach to the admission ticket.

The reason why it is supposed to be on photo quality paper is so that it lasts in storage for a while. Color pictures printed on plain paper degrade rapidly, ones printed on photo quality paper last longer.

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Dany
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby Dany » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:48 pm

Jeffort wrote:
Dany wrote:I think that means that the camera recorded an image onto photosensitive material before it was made into a print or slide.

No. It is used as a noun and therefore refers to the physical object you attach to the admission ticket.

Wut.

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davesmystery
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby davesmystery » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:54 pm

So many of the people at my center had printed out a picture of themselves that they had to accept it. The supervisor called LSAC and verified that it was okay.

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joebloe
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby joebloe » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:00 pm

Jeffort wrote:
joebloe wrote:
Jeffort wrote:Even though it's now a moot point:

World English Dictionary
photograph (ˈfəʊtəˌɡrɑːf, -ˌɡræf)

— n
1. Often shortened to: photo an image of an object, person, scene, etc, in the form of a print or slide recorded by a camera on photosensitive material

Plain paper does not qualify as photosensitive material.


The photo paper they make digital prints on these days is not photosensitive. With one very special exception (lightjet, which is an awesome idea), digital prints are made with a very large inkjet printer.


Maybe the dictionaries have not caught up yet but since you seem to be into photography hopefully you agree that it means photo quality paper rather than copy machine grade paper.


I don't think the material it's printed on makes it any less a photograph for the purposes of what LSAC said. I mean, I agree, it's a shitty practice to print on plain paper and know what the results look like. But if LSAC wanted photo paper, or did not want plain paper, they should have made it clearer. I would not be surprised if a LOT of people got needlessly turned away because they just don't think about the distinction between photograph, picture, image, etc.

Look at it this way: if you take an image, print it on plain paper, and show it to a hundred people (or even a hundred LSAT takers) and say, "Is this a photograph?" all or almost all will quickly say, "Yes." There is no question in my mind that you would get this kind of response. Similarly, if you take an image printed on photo-quality paper and ask, "What is this?" I would expect a mixed bag of responses including "picture/pic," "photograph/photo," and "image." Finally, take an image printed on photo paper and an image printed on plain paper and ask, "What are these?" I would expect few, if any, people would refer to the two by different terms, or would have any discomfort in referring to them by the same term.

In short, I feel that LSAC's instructions were inadequately specific in that the term "photograph" is commonly understood to have a much broader meaning than how the dictionary might define it.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby FantasticMrFox » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:00 pm

Jeffort wrote:
Dany wrote:I think that means that the camera recorded an image onto photosensitive material before it was made into a print or slide.

No. It is used as a noun and therefore refers to the physical object you attach to the admission ticket.

lol what...? "photosensitive material" isn't referring to what the picture is printed on
i see this thread got more interesting :lol:

Just to hammer this dead, the quality paper you are talking about are not photosensitive (adj, sensitive to photons, or light). The film, used by non-digital cameras, would qualify as "photosensitive material" since they react to the captured light, which is let in when you click the shutter. Obviously, the definition you used doesn't include the concept of digital photography.

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joebloe
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby joebloe » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:02 pm

Just out of curiosity, anybody that has access to the Oxford English Dictionary want to look up "photograph" there?

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby FantasticMrFox » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:05 pm

joebloe wrote:Just out of curiosity, anybody that has access to the Oxford English Dictionary want to look up "photograph" there?

n. a picture made with a camera, in which an image is focused onto film and then made visible by chemical treatment.
v. take a photograph of.
Derivatives: photographer n.; photographic adj.
(this is the pocket oxford, though so i guess the bigger one has a bigger definition)

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joebloe
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby joebloe » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:07 pm

FantasticMrFox wrote:
joebloe wrote:Just out of curiosity, anybody that has access to the Oxford English Dictionary want to look up "photograph" there?

n. a picture made with a camera, in which an image is focused onto film and then made visible by chemical treatment.
v. take a photograph of.
Derivatives: photographer n.; photographic adj.
(this is the pocket oxford, though so i guess the bigger one has a bigger definition)


It probably does, and would have the etymology too (which is probably trivial). Damn good resource. Makes me wish I were still in undergrad sometimes... I miss being able to log into the library proxy for all those paper databases and online resources.

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zozin
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby zozin » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:15 pm

From what I saw, like 10-20 pictures, people cannot follow directions. The pictures they used were enormous, and they were obviously stuff they had on Facebook.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby FantasticMrFox » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:19 pm

joebloe wrote:
FantasticMrFox wrote:
joebloe wrote:Just out of curiosity, anybody that has access to the Oxford English Dictionary want to look up "photograph" there?

n. a picture made with a camera, in which an image is focused onto film and then made visible by chemical treatment.
v. take a photograph of.
Derivatives: photographer n.; photographic adj.
(this is the pocket oxford, though so i guess the bigger one has a bigger definition)


It probably does, and would have the etymology too (which is probably trivial). Damn good resource. Makes me wish I were still in undergrad sometimes... I miss being able to log into the library proxy for all those paper databases and online resources.

I have always used Google "define: ____" for my definition purposes :o

23402385985
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby 23402385985 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:23 pm

These rules are pretty fucking stupid.

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Jeffort
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby Jeffort » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:48 pm

zozin wrote:From what I saw, like 10-20 pictures, people cannot follow directions. The pictures they used were enormous, and they were obviously stuff they had on Facebook.


There are many reasons why the percentile rank for the median achievable score (150) is currently hovering around 44% and bold ^ is one of them.
Last edited by Jeffort on Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bball1997
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby bball1997 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:51 pm

baconpuffs wrote:
capsfan wrote:In a bit of a panic now, didn't see anywhere where it says the photo must be on photo paper. Took the LSAT today and attached a picture I took myself and printed on copy paper. Proctors didn't seem to have a problem with it, is this serious enough to get my score cancelled? Where does it actually say it must be on photo paper?

I did as well, but I think we're fine. This is the exact text of the regulation, as printed on our tickets:

"In addition, all candidates must attach to their ticket a recent photograph (taken within the last six months) showing only the face and shoulders. The photograph must be clear enough so there is no doubt about the test taker's identity, and must be no larger than 2 x 2 inches (5 x 5 cm) and no smaller than 1 x 1 inch (3 x 3 cm). Your face in the photo must show you as you look on the day of the test (for example, with or without a beard). The photograph will be retained by LSAC only as long as needed to assure the authenticity of test scores and to protect the integrity of the testing process."

Nothing about it being a "real" photo. I don't know what mushybrain was talking about.


I called LSAC a few days before the test and they told me it had to be on photo paper.

mushybrain
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby mushybrain » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:58 pm

The e-mail they sent prior to the test said "attach a recent, clear photograph of yourself to the designated box on your LSAT admission ticket. (The photograph must have been taken within the last six months and must show only your face and shoulders. Laminated copies and photocopies of your photo are not acceptable.)"

Since a photocopy was not acceptable, it seemed pretty fair to assume they expected a proper photograph on photo paper, since with a decent copier there would be no way to tell the difference between a color copy and a printed photo on copy paper.

The e-mail subject was "Important Information Regarding Your June LSAT Registration" (the second with that subject I had received), and was dated 5/26.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby Nulli Secundus » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:08 pm

Jeffort wrote:No. It is used as a noun and therefore refers to the physical object you attach to the admission ticket.



Lololol.

Recorded BY a camera ON photosensitive material.

It refers to the films used in older machines. The ones you wind up and stuff.

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Jeffort
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby Jeffort » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:14 pm

Nulli Secundus wrote:
Jeffort wrote:No. It is used as a noun and therefore refers to the physical object you attach to the admission ticket.



Lololol.

Recorded BY a camera ON photosensitive material.

It refers to the films used in older machines. The ones you wind up and stuff.


Should we turn this into a 'try to write some LR questions' thread?

You missed the "in the form of a print" part of the definition I posted.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby Nulli Secundus » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:21 pm

Jeffort wrote:
Nulli Secundus wrote:
Jeffort wrote:No. It is used as a noun and therefore refers to the physical object you attach to the admission ticket.



Lololol.

Recorded BY a camera ON photosensitive material.

It refers to the films used in older machines. The ones you wind up and stuff.


Should we turn this into a 'try to write some LR questions' thread?

You missed the "in the form of a print" part of the definition I posted.


Read what MrFox wrote, the paper you print it on is not photosensitive material. Photosensitive = Reacting to light/photons, which is what the film in non-digital machines are. That definition, for ease of understanding (although I suspect only you misunderstand it) could have included the word "originally" like: "in the form of a print or slide originally recorded by a camera on photosensitive material" which would make it even more obvious that what that means is the print or slide is called the photograph and the material of those have nothing to do with this definition.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby FantasticMrFox » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:33 pm

Nulli Secundus wrote:
Jeffort wrote:
Nulli Secundus wrote:
Jeffort wrote:No. It is used as a noun and therefore refers to the physical object you attach to the admission ticket.


Lololol.
Recorded BY a camera ON photosensitive material.
It refers to the films used in older machines. The ones you wind up and stuff.

Should we turn this into a 'try to write some LR questions' thread?
You missed the "in the form of a print" part of the definition I posted.


Read what MrFox wrote,

Here, I tried to make it easier as well with some colors:
Jeffort wrote:World English Dictionary
photograph (ˈfəʊtəˌɡrɑːf, -ˌɡræf)
— n
1. Often shortened to: photo an image (of an object, person, scene, etc,) (in the form) [of a print or slide] recorded by a camera (on photosensitive material)


(x)=prepositional phrases
[x]=prepositional phrases of an individual prepositional clause
xx=unnecessary info

A photograph isn't some abstract idea-it's concrete, tangible, etc so it is "in a form" and what form is this? "a form of a print or slide" and how did this come to be? "it was recorded by a camera on a photosensitive material" (I couldn't think of relevant answers for why, who, and when)

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Jeffort
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Re: what? a photograph?

Postby Jeffort » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:42 pm

Nulli Secundus wrote:
Jeffort wrote:
Nulli Secundus wrote:
Jeffort wrote:No. It is used as a noun and therefore refers to the physical object you attach to the admission ticket.



Lololol.

Recorded BY a camera ON photosensitive material.

It refers to the films used in older machines. The ones you wind up and stuff.


Should we turn this into a 'try to write some LR questions' thread?

You missed the "in the form of a print" part of the definition I posted.


Read what MrFox wrote, the paper you print it on is not photosensitive material. Photosensitive = Reacting to light/photons, which is what the film in non-digital machines are. That definition, for ease of understanding (although I suspect only you misunderstand it) could have included the word "originally" like: "in the form of a print or slide originally recorded by a camera on photosensitive material" which would make it even more obvious that what that means is the print or slide is called the photograph and the material of those have nothing to do with this definition.


I agree with MrFox and believe we are on the same page.

It's silly to keep debating the meaning of 'photograph'. You construed the definition I posted (which is current and valid) as referring to really old school motion picture cameras and projectors. The definition is broad and includes much more than that.

A picture printed out on plain paper from a home inkjet type printer does not qualify as a photograph that is valid for official identification and records keeping purposes.




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