Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

phlb19
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Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby phlb19 » Sat May 28, 2011 10:41 pm

Hey everyone,

My last few PTs have been high 160s with the occasional 170-171. The problem I'm having is that I have yet to go below -4 on LG. Both RC and LR are solid for me (-2 to -4 RC, -3 to -7 LR combined). After reading about everyone on here who has no problem going -0 with time to spare on LG, I feel like this is the stupidest place to be losing points. I have 3 copies of all of the games from PTs 19-38. I've done all of them at least once, some of them twice. Any ideas for improving at LG other than just drilling these games? Do you guys think it's even possible to get my LG score down to -1 or -2 over the next week and a half? I've been thinking of picking up Mahnhattan's LG guide for help with grouping games but I'm not sure if it would be better just to stick with what I know (Powerscore) given that the test is so soon.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks!

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incompetentia
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby incompetentia » Sat May 28, 2011 10:45 pm

Are you finishing sections within 35 minutes, and just getting wrong answers, or having trouble because you need to rush at the end?

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mickeyD
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby mickeyD » Sat May 28, 2011 11:10 pm

Honestly you have to approach LG with the same mentality as the rest of the test. Repetition and drilling is obviously important but after every game you need to analyze why you got things wrong. You have to go back and figure out what inferences you missed, what key rules could have been combined, and what implications resulted from the local conditions did you not see. You can't just flesh out a hypothetical for your wrong answer and say "oh, it violates that rule." You need to figure out the reason why you didn't eliminate it on the spot.

IMO, for 95% of the questions there is a more elegant way of solving them than brute force hypotheticals- in other words there is usually a key inference that will allow you to answer most questions very quicky.

You need to review your LGs thoroughly and make sure you're finding all of these and solving the questions in the "right way." Once you can do this, then repetition becomes important because you learn to recognize where to find inferences and the importance of various kinds of rules.

Eventually things will become natural. If S can't be with W and everyhing has to be in group 1 or 2, you'll start to automatically place the dual option S/W and S/W in both groups. If there is a block, it'll become second nature for you to look for the limited positions that block can be in. You'll start to flesh out complicated conditionals at the beginning of the game to help you understand them better. You'll start to be able to quickly recognize games that have few options and can be solved with templates.

Hope this helps, it took me a while to get from -4/5 to 0. What helped me the most is always looking to set off the chain of deductions and forcing myself to figure out "what has to happen now?"

EDIT: Just read that you're taking June so this might not be that helpful, but perhaps a slight change in approach could be what you need.

phlb19
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby phlb19 » Sat May 28, 2011 11:25 pm

That's excellent advice. Thanks for taking the time to type it out Mickey. I find that it's about 50/50 with me finding the key inference(s) to easily solve all the questions. Sometimes I'm able to do this and other times I have to resolve to hypotheticals. Maybe I should worry less about the number of games I do and focus instead on understanding each one as thoroughly as possible.

Incomp - I have no trouble with accuracy. I rarely miss a question that I actually answer. My problem is that I always run out of time with 3 or so questions left in the last game and I usually skip over a difficult question or two in prior games.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat May 28, 2011 11:34 pm

phlb19 wrote:That's excellent advice. Thanks for taking the time to type it out Mickey. I find that it's about 50/50 with me finding the key inference(s) to easily solve all the questions. Sometimes I'm able to do this and other times I have to resolve to hypotheticals. Maybe I should worry less about the number of games I do and focus instead on understanding each one as thoroughly as possible.

Incomp - I have no trouble with accuracy. I rarely miss a question that I actually answer. My problem is that I always run out of time with 3 or so questions left in the last game and I usually skip over a difficult question or two in prior games.


There's not much you can do in such a short period of time. You need to be going the easiest game faster, but that's probably the extent of 1 week advice I can give. Start going over the easier games and trying to do them as fast as possible so you can have a little more time on on the harder 2 games.

You can probably clean up LR a bit to pick up a few points too.

phlb19
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby phlb19 » Sun May 29, 2011 4:15 pm

Any thoughts on switching over to Manhattan's logic chain for grouping games? Does anyone mix Powerscore and Manhattan methods?

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incompetentia
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby incompetentia » Sun May 29, 2011 4:41 pm

How much time are you spending on your diagram before moving onto the questions? If it's purely a time issue, this may actually be easier to fix with some simple adjustments.


Does it often take you a lot of time to work through the hypotheticals?

phlb19
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby phlb19 » Sun May 29, 2011 5:40 pm

My usual method is to write down the variables, diagram the rules, create the main diagram including base level inferences like not laws and dual options and then spend a minute or so looking for higher level inferences. Sometimes I will also fill out a hypothetical or two just to help with internalizing the rules. How much time do you think I should be spending before moving on to the questions? I'm usually able to finish the first 2 games within 16 minutes or so, but lose time on the 3rd and 4th.

As far as working out the hypotheticals goes - they don't take me long on linear games, but I think I lose a lot of time using process of elimination on grouping games.

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incompetentia
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby incompetentia » Sun May 29, 2011 5:43 pm

Have you tried it without that last hypo? If you're as accurate as you say, I really don't think that's necessary at this point.


My thinking is that if you're spending more than 90-120 seconds on the diagram and related parts, you may want to try to speed that up.

phlb19
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby phlb19 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:19 am

So, despite my best efforts to improve at LG my scores have actually been going down. I went -8 on the PT i took yesterday. I'm really out of ideas here. I've been drilling the games from tests 19-38, but for some reason the new ones feel differently to me - especially linear games. I'm thinking about making copies of all the games from 52-61 and drilling those but other than that I'm at a loss. Maybe I'll have to resolve to only attempting 3 games and guessing on a 5 question game. Any thoughts?

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incompetentia
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby incompetentia » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:29 am

If your scores are decreasing, it's most likely that you're just pressing too hard.

At this stage, it's best to relax, try to worry as little about time as possible, and just get to it.
Panic is the worst thing that can happen in the days before test day.

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boosk
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby boosk » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:30 am

Im in the exact same boat, cosistently missing 3-6 on LG. i was getting burnt out doing like 50 games in 3 days... Started missing around 8-9 on sections... Take a day off from games, you'll see an improvement I think

phlb19
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Re: Improving LG to Get Over the 170 Hump

Postby phlb19 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:41 am

Fair enough. I think I'll take today off from games and start drilling again tomorrow. Originally I was planning on tomorrow being my last PT but I think I'll hold off until Saturday.

Thank all!




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