Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

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bllardw
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Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby bllardw » Sat May 28, 2011 6:37 pm

Hey Guys,

The only thing stopping me from scoring in the 170 arena is the AR(Logic Games) section. I have read the Logic Games Bible twice and I still don't get it. I am -15 to -18 on the section.

I am taking the June LSAT and I could use some advice on what works for you guys.

Please tell all!!!!!

bruss
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby bruss » Sat May 28, 2011 7:19 pm

have you tried "logic games for dummies"

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rinkrat19
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby rinkrat19 » Sat May 28, 2011 7:23 pm

Did you just "read it" or did you work through everything as you went?

And like the first commenter said, you can try Logic Games for Dummies.

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fltanglab
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby fltanglab » Sat May 28, 2011 7:27 pm

Have you sat down and really focused on doing a logic games section? It's really not that difficult if you think about each game carefully...

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Sat May 28, 2011 7:59 pm

If you've worked through the Logic Games Bible and you're still -15+, that's very worrying.

Questions:

1. Do you understand how to diagram?

2. If so, is the problem that: (a) you have no idea how to answer the questions; (b) you can work out the answers, but not in the time allocated; or (c) you answer the questions, but get the answers wrong?

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mattviphky
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby mattviphky » Sat May 28, 2011 8:07 pm

How are you in the other sections? Well, the LRB is a pretty hard read, so it is challenging to remain motivated. I just sat down and forced myself to read for 2 hours a day. I spent like an hour total just rubbing my temples everyday for the first week tho. Just force yourself to digest the material, the hardest part is just willing yourself to concentrate and break through dense material. But it sounds like diagramming is your problem if you are missing that many.

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SoPro
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby SoPro » Sat May 28, 2011 8:19 pm

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but it may be a little late to improve your LG score significantly.

However, you implied that you were doing well in the other sections, considering your score is near a 170 with (-18) in LG's. Thus, only a moderate improvement in LG could secure you an excellent score.


I would recommend spending the next two days on Chapter Two (Linear Games), the two days after that on Chapter Three (Advanced Linear Games), and then the next three days after that on Chapter Four (Grouping Games). A sound foundation in Linear and Grouping games should guarantee at least moderate success on the LG section. If you start tomorrow, you'll finish carefully reading and working through those chapters on June 4th. Take a practice test on the morning of June 5th, and then carefully review the LG section that evening. I know most would recommend that you take the 4th and 5th off, but dire situations call for dire measures.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.

totaltest.milan
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby totaltest.milan » Sat May 28, 2011 8:49 pm

Hey, this may be of some help. I'm a tutor and use a completely different method from that in the Logic Games Bible. Check out the book "Big Fat Genius Guide to Logic Games", I think you can only pretty much get it on Amazon. The basic approach is to learn a sequence of steps for each of the different types of questions (can be true, must be false, etc) and then apply it mechanically. The emphasis is on the questions and not the game, and it's designed so that you don't have to make any deductions. It's more work since you don't make deductions or have to pay attention to what kind of game it is, but it's largely rote, mechanical work so once you internalize the method then there's really no problem. Hope that helps.


_

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SoPro
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby SoPro » Sat May 28, 2011 9:07 pm

totaltest.milan wrote:Hey, this may be of some help. I'm a tutor and use a completely different method from that in the Logic Games Bible. Check out the book "Big Fat Genius Guide to Logic Games", I think you can only pretty much get it on Amazon. The basic approach is to learn a sequence of steps for each of the different types of questions (can be true, must be false, etc) and then apply it mechanically. The emphasis is on the questions and not the game, and it's designed so that you don't have to make any deductions. It's more work since you don't make deductions or have to pay attention to what kind of game it is, but it's largely rote, mechanical work so once you internalize the method then there's really no problem. Hope that helps.


For God's sake, ignore this "advice."


"It's more work since you don't make deductions or have to pay attention to what kind of game it is"

Everything in bold italics is a bad idea.


"it's largely rote, mechanical work so once you internalize the method then there's really no problem"

Assuming this statement contains even the smallest scruple of truth, I wouldn't recommend learning a new system which you must "internalize" this close to the exam date.

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bllardw
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby bllardw » Sat May 28, 2011 10:01 pm

SoPro wrote:I don't want to sound pessimistic, but it may be a little late to improve your LG score significantly.

However, you implied that you were doing well in the other sections, considering your score is near a 170 with (-18) in LG's. Thus, only a moderate improvement in LG could secure you an excellent score.


I would recommend spending the next two days on Chapter Two (Linear Games), the two days after that on Chapter Three (Advanced Linear Games), and then the next three days after that on Chapter Four (Grouping Games). A sound foundation in Linear and Grouping games should guarantee at least moderate success on the LG section. If you start tomorrow, you'll finish carefully reading and working through those chapters on June 4th. Take a practice test on the morning of June 5th, and then carefully review the LG section that evening. I know most would recommend that you take the 4th and 5th off, but dire situations call for dire measures.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.


Thanks SoPro.Will do!

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bllardw
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby bllardw » Sat May 28, 2011 10:03 pm

AntipodeanPhil wrote:If you've worked through the Logic Games Bible and you're still -15+, that's very worrying.

Questions:

1. Do you understand how to diagram?

2. If so, is the problem that: (a) you have no idea how to answer the questions; (b) you can work out the answers, but not in the time allocated; or (c) you answer the questions, but get the answers wrong?



I understand how to diagram. But when I encounter those complex games I get lost. I'm going to go ahead and actually reread the LGB thoroughly :)

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bllardw
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby bllardw » Sat May 28, 2011 10:04 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:Did you just "read it" or did you work through everything as you went?

And like the first commenter said, you can try Logic Games for Dummies.


Yes rinkrat19...you are right. I need to reread it the right way. I casually breezed through it the first two times. I'm going to dedicate some real time to it.

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bllardw
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby bllardw » Sat May 28, 2011 10:05 pm

fltanglab wrote:Have you sat down and really focused on doing a logic games section? It's really not that difficult if you think about each game carefully...


Will do.

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bllardw
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby bllardw » Sat May 28, 2011 10:06 pm

AntipodeanPhil wrote:If you've worked through the Logic Games Bible and you're still -15+, that's very worrying.

Questions:

1. Do you understand how to diagram?

2. If so, is the problem that: (a) you have no idea how to answer the questions; (b) you can work out the answers, but not in the time allocated; or (c) you answer the questions, but get the answers wrong?


I can diagram on an amateurish level. Anything past stacking is where I tend to fall off and get lost. Then I seem to guess...preferably B or D.

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bllardw
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby bllardw » Sat May 28, 2011 10:08 pm

mattviphky wrote:How are you in the other sections? Well, the LRB is a pretty hard read, so it is challenging to remain motivated. I just sat down and forced myself to read for 2 hours a day. I spent like an hour total just rubbing my temples everyday for the first week tho. Just force yourself to digest the material, the hardest part is just willing yourself to concentrate and break through dense material. But it sounds like diagramming is your problem if you are missing that many.


Thanks matt. I am going to try and work through it! Forcefully!!

totaltest.milan
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby totaltest.milan » Sun May 29, 2011 6:39 am

"I can diagram on an amateurish level."

That's your problem right there. You need to be able to make robust diagrams so that you'll be able to unlock as much information as possible before taking on the questions. In order to make robust diagrams you need to have a good idea of the different game types and the specific deductive strategies that apply to each one. For that you'll need to go through the games bible (or something similar - but the bible is considered the best) attentively and do the work in it carefully, supplementing it with actual logic games in the sequence in which you learn them in the book (so learn and then do actual basic linear games, then more advanced linear games, etc). SoPro's schedule is good advice.

Improvement is a result of practice but is certainly doable so don't get discouraged. You have limited time before the test but given that you've already worked through the book and the games is the only thing you need to focus on it's not unrealistic that you'll improve. You just have to put the work in; as I never tire of saying - the LSAT is a skills test, not a knowledge test. Skills need to be practiced. Simply reading through the bible and expecting to improve your score is unrealistic, you have to do a shitload of games.

Regarding the (vaguely assholeish) critique of my previous post, I completely stand by the alternate system I teach. There's a lot less stress on the game type and making deductions and much more emphasis on the questions and the specific approach for each one. That being said, at this point it is probably too late to learn any new approach, and it may take valuable time away from practice. Although I brought it up with the intention of providing you a different perspective, it's probably a better idea to stick with what you've been doing and focus on more intense and effective practice as outlined in some of these previous posts.

Best of luck.

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SOCRATiC
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Re: Logic Games Bible of no help. I'm taking the June LSAT help.

Postby SOCRATiC » Sun May 29, 2011 7:17 am

Dude -

You can't simply diagram at an amateurish level. You have to FUCK the test. You need to be able to create robust diagrams in your sleep. You need to be able to perform a five minute quicky on the first two easy games so that you have more time to spend on the more complex games. I usually finished two games within 11 minutes.

I'm super seriously. Fuck the test.




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