Minimum Maximum questions on in-out games

secretad
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:26 pm

Minimum Maximum questions on in-out games

Postby secretad » Tue May 03, 2011 7:08 am

I have done the Souderton in-out game and bird in out game (with shrikes and such) and both of those had in-out games.

I am well aware of a rule such as:

A ---> ~B

This rule means that at least one of A and B must always be out, perhaps even both can be out.

So I know that in this situation in a hypothetical game, we could never have all of the variables in, at least one must always be out.

Now, after that point is where I struggle.

Do I make a hypothetical with A in and B out, or B in and A out.

I know that which one to pick to be in or out would be determined by other rules, but I feel uncertain how the rules will affect the overall number.

I always feel uncertain because I simply don't know if I could have fit an extra variable in somewhere with a different variable being out vs being in and vice versa.

Thanks guys.

Manhattan LSAT Noah
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:43 am

Re: Minimum Maximum questions on in-out games

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Tue May 03, 2011 9:20 am

secretad wrote:I have done the Souderton in-out game and bird in out game (with shrikes and such) and both of those had in-out games.

I am well aware of a rule such as:

A ---> ~B

This rule means that at least one of A and B must always be out, perhaps even both can be out.

So I know that in this situation in a hypothetical game, we could never have all of the variables in, at least one must always be out.

Now, after that point is where I struggle.

Do I make a hypothetical with A in and B out, or B in and A out.

I know that which one to pick to be in or out would be determined by other rules, but I feel uncertain how the rules will affect the overall number.

I always feel uncertain because I simply don't know if I could have fit an extra variable in somewhere with a different variable being out vs being in and vice versa.

Thanks guys.

Here's my general starting point: If you have to determine the maximum, decide who are the "bad guys" - the ones that, were they in, would force many out. Put the bad guys out, and see what's left.

After that, it's a bit of shuffling.

SanDiegoJake
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:17 pm

Re: Minimum Maximum questions on in-out games

Postby SanDiegoJake » Thu May 05, 2011 2:06 pm

Right, secretad. You're doing the right thing, just not taking the next logical step.

For questions that ask about the maximum "in", you want to start by asking yourself (as you've done) whether the highest answer choice (usually all of them) could be "in."

You've done that and answered, "No, because of the A --> ~B rule." Good. Eliminate the "all in" answer choice.

Now, the next step, the part that you're not doing, is to lay out all possible scenarios of that clue that made it such that they couldn't all be in. Scenario 1: A is in and B is out. Scenario 2: B is in and A is out. Scenario 3: They're both out. Apply the rest of the clues to each scenario to see what has to be true in each, then test out each scenario (by plugging in the maximum possible number of birds/doctors/whatever) to see which one could give you the maximum - one of these scenarios will lead you straight to the maximum.

For minimum, same basic thing. ID the clue that says that it can't be zero, lay out all possible iterations of that violating clue, apply other clues to each and test.




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