Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Which should I buy?

Atlas/Manhattan LR, LG, and RC
30
50%
Logic Games & Logical Reasoning Bible w/Atlas RC
30
50%
 
Total votes: 60

jeremysen
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:07 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby jeremysen » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:52 am

rocon7383 wrote:
glewz wrote:
99.9luft wrote:Who knew this thread would turn out to be a Manhattan circle-jerk. Let alone in the holy land of the bibles - TLS.


99.9luft, funny thing - everyone who advocated Manhattan (with the exception of you) has <25 posts. wtf lol


yeah. Interesting theory, not at all true, but interesting.


Do you really think those test companies don't monitor this website?

Test it: Create a thread titled "Choosing an LSAT prep course" or "Question regarding ________'s LSAT methods". Guaranteed response from a test prep rep within a day or 2.

User avatar
Kabuo
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby Kabuo » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:10 am

I have no experience with Manhattan, but I'll echo what an earlier poster said. The bibles worked wonders for me. 11 point jump after using the bibles for retake, numbers in profile.

User avatar
soj
Posts: 7735
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:10 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby soj » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:30 am

I think they're both excellent. Manhattan has some useful insights about how to approach questions and the lines of thinking that test-takers should try to emulate. The comments on "How a 170+ tester might think" are the highlights. But useful as they are in their own right, Manhattan books can't touch PS in LR and LG, for which the Bibles are the gold standard.

I think someone who is strong in RC and only needs help for LR and LG can focus on the Bibles and do great, but anyone with room to improve in RC could probably benefit from Manhattan.

I'm not a Manhattan employee by the way. I know it's kind of suspect given my low post count, but I have pretty extensive posts in the June Prep thread that would be very unusual for a Manhattan employee. I also don't think Manhattan books are perfect--I'm very annoyed by a typo in the answer key in the Atlas 2009 LR book, which led me to think one of my answers was wrong when it was correct, and forced me to try to justify the "correct" answer (i.e. the wrong answer that I was led to believe was correct by the typo) that ultimately proved to be an exercise in reinforcing bad reasoning.

Do take my words with a grain of salt because I don't have any real LSAT scores (only PTs) to show for the purported benefits, and even I can't accurately gauge how much of my recent improvements is attributable to one set of books and how much is attributable to another. I also used the 2009 books, not 2010.

Manhattan folks, if you believe the 2010 books are not only typo-free but substantially better (as many publishers claim, though not convincingly, about new editions of their books) than the 2009 ones, I'd be happy to review your 2010 books. Just send 'em to me free of charge and I'll post a detailed review here. :P

phx
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:59 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby phx » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:02 am

I've used both the LG Bible and the Manhattan LG guide. I went mostly with the strategies from the Bible, but I liked Manhattan's strategies for sequencing games and their logic chain diagram for In/Out grouping games is also very powerful when used appropriately.

User avatar
rocon7383
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby rocon7383 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:34 am

jeremysen wrote:
rocon7383 wrote:
glewz wrote:
99.9luft wrote:Who knew this thread would turn out to be a Manhattan circle-jerk. Let alone in the holy land of the bibles - TLS.


99.9luft, funny thing - everyone who advocated Manhattan (with the exception of you) has <25 posts. wtf lol


yeah. Interesting theory, not at all true, but interesting.


Do you really think those test companies don't monitor this website?

Test it: Create a thread titled "Choosing an LSAT prep course" or "Question regarding ________'s LSAT methods". Guaranteed response from a test prep rep within a day or 2.


I'm sure they do, that was not what I was questioning. I have more than 25 posts and have actually taken manhattan courses.

User avatar
Grond
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:33 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby Grond » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:35 am

Kabuo wrote:I have no experience with Manhattan, but I'll echo what an earlier poster said. The bibles worked wonders for me. 11 point jump after using the bibles for retake, numbers in profile.


Did you re-apply with your new score?

User avatar
soj
Posts: 7735
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:10 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby soj » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:58 am

Oops, are we talking about books or courses? My comments above don't apply at all to their courses. I only self-study.

Manhattan LSAT Noah
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:43 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:28 pm

soj wrote:I think they're both excellent. Manhattan has some useful insights about how to approach questions and the lines of thinking that test-takers should try to emulate. The comments on "How a 170+ tester might think" are the highlights. But useful as they are in their own right, Manhattan books can't touch PS in LR and LG, for which the Bibles are the gold standard.

I think someone who is strong in RC and only needs help for LR and LG can focus on the Bibles and do great, but anyone with room to improve in RC could probably benefit from Manhattan.

I'm not a Manhattan employee by the way. I know it's kind of suspect given my low post count, but I have pretty extensive posts in the June Prep thread that would be very unusual for a Manhattan employee. I also don't think Manhattan books are perfect--I'm very annoyed by a typo in the answer key in the Atlas 2009 LR book, which led me to think one of my answers was wrong when it was correct, and forced me to try to justify the "correct" answer (i.e. the wrong answer that I was led to believe was correct by the typo) that ultimately proved to be an exercise in reinforcing bad reasoning.

Do take my words with a grain of salt because I don't have any real LSAT scores (only PTs) to show for the purported benefits, and even I can't accurately gauge how much of my recent improvements is attributable to one set of books and how much is attributable to another. I also used the 2009 books, not 2010.

Manhattan folks, if you believe the 2010 books are not only typo-free but substantially better (as many publishers claim, though not convincingly, about new editions of their books) than the 2009 ones, I'd be happy to review your 2010 books. Just send 'em to me free of charge and I'll post a detailed review here. :P

Thanks for the review - and your valiant efforts to prove you don't work for us :) amidst all the suspicion - the latest LR book is significantly different than the edition you read. We just published the 2nd edition and it added 300 pages to the edition that you own, and, alas, with so much new material, there are a few typos which we've sent to the printer for correction. (we had to actually kill an editor as punishment...) We put up an errata list on our forums

Manhattan LSAT Noah
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:43 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:32 pm

soj wrote:I think they're both excellent. Manhattan has some useful insights about how to approach questions and the lines of thinking that test-takers should try to emulate. The comments on "How a 170+ tester might think" are the highlights. But useful as they are in their own right, Manhattan books can't touch PS in LR and LG, for which the Bibles are the gold standard.

I think someone who is strong in RC and only needs help for LR and LG can focus on the Bibles and do great, but anyone with room to improve in RC could probably benefit from Manhattan.

I'm not a Manhattan employee by the way. I know it's kind of suspect given my low post count, but I have pretty extensive posts in the June Prep thread that would be very unusual for a Manhattan employee. I also don't think Manhattan books are perfect--I'm very annoyed by a typo in the answer key in the Atlas 2009 LR book, which led me to think one of my answers was wrong when it was correct, and forced me to try to justify the "correct" answer (i.e. the wrong answer that I was led to believe was correct by the typo) that ultimately proved to be an exercise in reinforcing bad reasoning.

Do take my words with a grain of salt because I don't have any real LSAT scores (only PTs) to show for the purported benefits, and even I can't accurately gauge how much of my recent improvements is attributable to one set of books and how much is attributable to another. I also used the 2009 books, not 2010.

Manhattan folks, if you believe the 2010 books are not only typo-free but substantially better (as many publishers claim, though not convincingly, about new editions of their books) than the 2009 ones, I'd be happy to review your 2010 books. Just send 'em to me free of charge and I'll post a detailed review here. :P

And I'll be happy to send you a replacement for your book! pm me
Last edited by Manhattan LSAT Noah on Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Easy-E
Posts: 5708
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:46 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby Easy-E » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:55 pm

I'm bought the LGB and LRB, I'm currently working through the Games Bible right now. For the most part its very good, but I don't really dig their diagramming style, at least as far as linear games. But the ideas and concepts it teaches seem solid.

Then again, I constantly go to the Manhattan forum to check my diagramming work, so if the book follows the same principles Noah usually demonstrates there, I can't say much bad about either.

That was a useless post. :)

User avatar
nshapkar
Posts: 2444
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby nshapkar » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:17 pm

soj wrote:Oops, are we talking about books or courses? My comments above don't apply at all to their courses. I only self-study.



no no, we're talking books only. I want insight on books because I'm not shelling out anymore money on courses.

User avatar
tehrocstar
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:12 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby tehrocstar » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:22 pm

Manhattan Noah - what's new exactly in the updated logical reasoning guide? 250+ new pages is a ton of new pages. Do you suggest those who went through the Atlas guide to go pick up the new guide?

Manhattan LSAT Noah
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:43 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:23 pm

tehrocstar wrote:Manhattan Noah - what's new exactly in the updated logical reasoning guide? 250+ new pages is a ton of new pages. Do you suggest those who went through the Atlas guide to go pick up the new guide?

I hate to further give the impression that we started this thread! But, since you asked, the new book has a deeper discussion of assumptions, we connect more question types into a general framework (the assumption family), and we delve a bit deeper into principle example questions. These were changes that we first made in our course, and then we updated the books to support that. We also added a few new drills to work on discrete skills (e.g. categorizing an assumption). Finally, since LR is 50% of the score, we decided to throw in a lot more focused practice sets (with explanations) to make it easier to immediately practice the strategy. In general, most people who have read both were glad to have the new one. Anyone who bought an Atlas copy before we released our 2nd edition is welcome to send us their receipt and we'll replace their book with a fatter one as a gesture of good will in these dark and stormy times (and we're now called Manhattan LSAT, though nobody seems to want to use that name).

Kurst
Posts: 448
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:33 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby Kurst » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:16 pm

Atlas LSAT Noah wrote:we're now called Manhattan LSAT, though nobody seems to want to use that name
Atlas > Manhattan

:)

privatemf
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:15 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby privatemf » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:56 pm

I love the bibles.

mchuynh
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:23 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby mchuynh » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:48 am

Get Both. They're both useful.

User avatar
nshapkar
Posts: 2444
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby nshapkar » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:05 am

mchuynh wrote:Get Both. They're both useful.



should i use them simultaneously or use bibles and then move onto atlas, or...?

mchuynh
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:23 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby mchuynh » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:02 pm

nshapkar wrote:
mchuynh wrote:Get Both. They're both useful.



should i use them simultaneously or use bibles and then move onto atlas, or...?


I suggest reading the bibles first. :)

User avatar
glewz
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:32 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby glewz » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:07 pm

jeremysen wrote:
rocon7383 wrote:
glewz wrote:
99.9luft wrote:Who knew this thread would turn out to be a Manhattan circle-jerk. Let alone in the holy land of the bibles - TLS.


99.9luft, funny thing - everyone who advocated Manhattan (with the exception of you) has <25 posts. wtf lol


yeah. Interesting theory, not at all true, but interesting.


Do you really think those test companies don't monitor this website?

Test it: Create a thread titled "Choosing an LSAT prep course" or "Question regarding ________'s LSAT methods". Guaranteed response from a test prep rep within a day or 2.


@rocon7383
All right, well here's a list of MLSAT advocates + posts. Since my last post many days ago, whosays, fjsms, and tehrocstar have almost unchanged # posts.
rocon7383: 206
whosays: 2
fjsms: 24
tehrocstar: 23
phx: 33
mchuynh: 22
99.9luft: 1982

And on jeremy's comment that test prep companies (esp. manhattan) monitor TLS, we have Manhattan LSAT Noah in this thread.

User avatar
glewz
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:32 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby glewz » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:12 pm

99.9luft wrote:Who knew this thread would turn out to be a Manhattan circle-jerk. Let alone in the holy land of the bibles - TLS.


OP, I dunno whether MLSAT's books are effective, but I'd take the posts on this thread (and especially your poll) with a grain of salt.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet $ that ITT you have some (not everyone obviously) employees selling a product, as opposed to genuine responses from those who have used the books.

User avatar
typ3
Posts: 1362
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:04 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby typ3 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:40 pm

glewz wrote:
@rocon7383
All right, well here's a list of MLSAT advocates + posts. Since my last post many days ago, whosays, fjsms, and tehrocstar have almost unchanged # posts.
rocon7383: 206
whosays: 2


fjsms: 24
tehrocstar: 23
phx: 33
mchuynh: 22
99.9luft: 1982

And on jeremy's comment that test prep companies (esp. manhattan) monitor TLS, we have Manhattan LSAT Noah in this thread.



You can add me to that list of MLSAT supporter. It's a superior product in my opinion for testing into the 170's. My test day performance was well below my PT average, but with the bibles my actual score was still 7 points lower.

Manhattan LSAT Noah
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:43 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:53 am

Just for the record - while we like to stay abreast of conversations ("monitor"), and answer questions, it is not our style - nor is it ethical - to post fake reviews here or elsewhere. Plus, it's LSAT season - who's got the time to do this (develop the in-depth back story, forge the paperwork, and leave traces of DNA in relevant locations)?

More importantly, good luck with your final months of prep, whatever books you use.

If anyone has questions, or salacious accusations :lol:, feel free to pm me.

User avatar
tehrocstar
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:12 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby tehrocstar » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:15 pm

I'm just a new user, and just started using these forums as I'm prepping for the June 2011 exam. The manhattan/atlas books are newer, could it just be correlation that those who promote it, happen to be newer members? And isn't there an equal amount of votes for the bible? In any case, i definitely don't work for Manhattan. Don't know how I could prove that.

User avatar
Kabuo
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby Kabuo » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:30 pm

tehrocstar wrote:I'm just a new user, and just started using these forums as I'm prepping for the June 2011 exam. The manhattan/atlas books are newer, could it just be correlation that those who promote it, happen to be newer members? And isn't there an equal amount of votes for the bible? In any case, i definitely don't work for Manhattan. Don't know how I could prove that.


Only way TLS will ever take you seriously now is if you take a SS of you being registered for the June exam with no previous score over 173 or w/e Manhattan's cutoff is along with your photo ID. Sorry, but you gotta do it. I guess you could edit out your LSAC #, but then you run the risk of the most paranoid posters accusing you of stealing another person's SS of the June exam registration.

User avatar
99.9luft
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:32 pm

Re: Atlas (Manhattan) v. Bibles

Postby 99.9luft » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:34 pm

Kabuo wrote:
tehrocstar wrote:I'm just a new user, and just started using these forums as I'm prepping for the June 2011 exam. The manhattan/atlas books are newer, could it just be correlation that those who promote it, happen to be newer members? And isn't there an equal amount of votes for the bible? In any case, i definitely don't work for Manhattan. Don't know how I could prove that.


Only way TLS will ever take you seriously now is if you take a SS of you being registered for the June exam with no previous score over 173 or w/e Manhattan's cutoff is along with your photo ID. Sorry, but you gotta do it. I guess you could edit out your LSAC #, but then you run the risk of the most paranoid posters accusing you of stealing another person's SS of the June exam registration.


That was elaborate, Mulder.
How 'bout a good ol' NO ONE CARES (re him proving his identity).




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: greatspirit, Greenteachurro, Lexaholik, mrgstephe, VMars and 6 guests