155 LSAT Forum

[mattviphky]

Studyin has been going pretty well, it has been rather light, tho. I have done 2 pts this month, got a 166 on my last one. -2 LG, -6/-5 LR, -5 RC. It seems lr is giving me some trouble, i'm going to order some lr prep stuff and drill more of it. i bought powerscore lg workbook and a book of pts, i made 3 copies of each game and i have been doing a few games a day, i feel like im really improving and im gunning for -0 on lg in october. rc is rc. lr needs to improve, it seems like my biggest problem is mental endurance, hopefully this comes as i take more pts and dril more. I -6 on an lr section, but when i went to review it the next day i quickly chose the right answer on all of them. i feel like if i could keep my stamina up i would be at like a -2 for an lr section. i just get tired so fast. im trying to stay motivated, the goal is -0 lg, -5 combined lr, -5 rc for a 171. im working hard, but need to work harder

[bruss]

So glad to hear you haven't given up. Looking forward to the day you let us know that you'll be a fighting Irish. Rudy Rudy

[Perdevise]

Good luck this October. I don't think your 158 reflects your abilities; you seem to score reliably in the mid 160s. The test is not a perfect indicator of your abilities; you had the misfortune to score low on your personal bell curve on test day. With the right practice, you can reach and hopefully exceed your median.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from reading the the thread, it feels like when you take PTs, you time yourself for a section, grade it, then take the next section, over the course of a day or two. If this is so, I would highly recommend you simulate the actual test conditions as much as possible by taking all five sections in a row, timed, with a 10-15 minute break after the third section. You may have done worse because you were unused to the strain of taking so many sections so rapidly.

[mattviphky]

Good luck this October. I don't think your 158 reflects your abilities; you seem to score reliably in the mid 160s. The test is not a perfect indicator of your abilities; you had the misfortune to score low on your personal bell curve on test day. With the right practice, you can reach and hopefully exceed your median.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from reading the the thread, it feels like when you take PTs, you time yourself for a section, grade it, then take the next section, over the course of a day or two. If this is so, I would highly recommend you simulate the actual test conditions as much as possible by taking all five sections in a row, timed, with a 10-15 minute break after the third section. You may have done worse because you were unused to the strain of taking so many sections so rapidly.

Well i typically do the 3 section, break, 2 section and then grade...so it is similar to test conditions. However, the break is usually stretched from 15 minutes to like an hour, something i need to work on. haha i also finding myself taking a five minute temple rub break between sections 2-3.

[mattviphky]

Been doing pretty well considering the test is two months away. I have been doing the pts in the 30s, and I have done alright. My LG seems to be in good shape. I'm aiming for a -0 on this section during the test. I have heard that the LG from the 30s is pretty hard, and I have been doing rather well. I did 33 today, which has this really hard birds game (about wrens and crap), I went -1 for the section so I feel good. I am making photocopies of all my games and i try to do a few old and few new ones daily. I have the powerscore lg bible just for more games. My LR and RC need hella work. On a good LR section i'm looking at like a -3, typical is more like a -5 tho...however i'm not very consistent with anything. RC is just RC, its not the answers don't look wrong, its that wrong answers look right, or whatever, its just confusing. I've been between 165-168 lately, but that is with the 30s pts, which have a gracious curve. Based on current abilities, I would be psyched with a 170 in October. However, I hope something clicks this month. My gameplan for August is to hit LR very hard. Take a week off somewhere during the month to avoid burnout as well. September will be all pts. I have the LRB, but I just couldn't get a good grasp of it last time and I abandoned it half-way through. My goal is at LEAST a 170 in October. LG is on track, but my LR could look better. RC.....idk, i hate the fact that i can feel 100% with an answer only to find out it was wrong. A consistent pt score of -0 LG, -5 LR (total), -4 RC is my goal by October.

[bardreams]

Hey man,

I've had a pretty similar study schedule to you and have been hitting about the same scores (slightly lower) than you have. I also hope to be done drilling everything by August and taking PTs in September.

Best of luck, onwards and upwards.

[Spacemyace]

Hey man, just wanna know how the lsat thing is coming along. I do read your posts, so keep it up.

[PDaddy]

not to be a downer but practicing on the oldest Logic Games, while better than nothing, is not a good idea.

Ok in retrospect this post sounds kind of stupid but I can't put into words how much different the newer games are then the older ones.

I strongly disagree with this, as would most people who understand that the "nature" of the LSAT never really changes (See Pithypike, et al.). Do not follow the above advice. The skills required to succeed on the February 1995 test are the same skills required to succeed in October 2011.

While game types and degrees of difficulty can and do change over time (as do LR and RC passages), the skills required to complete logic games have never changed. To be good at them, one must be able to think organically about information/rules, synthesize the information quickly, and make extrapolations about what can or cannot happen, and what must be true given the info.

To the extent that the old games require one to synthesize information, and to the extent that they are generally much harder to finish in the allotted time, they have a lot of value when preparing for modern versions of the test, if for no other reason than they make the easy games now found on the current LSAT's seem even easier, giving the examinee more time to confront games like "the Dinos".

The trick is to practice old games early in your prep and infuse the learned skills into the latter preparation. This means doing tests 45-62 during the last two months of prep and drilling on the respective games during the last month...repeatedly.

[Spacemyace]

not to be a downer but practicing on the oldest Logic Games, while better than nothing, is not a good idea.

Ok in retrospect this post sounds kind of stupid but I can't put into words how much different the newer games are then the older ones.

I strongly disagree with this, as would most people who understand that the "nature" of the LSAT never really changes (See Pithypike, et al.). Do not follow the above advice. The skills required to succeed on the February 1995 test are the same skills required to succeed in October 2011.

While game types and degrees of difficulty can and do change over time (as do LR and RC passages), the skills required to complete logic games have never changed. To be good at them, one must be able to think organically about information/rules, synthesize the information quickly, and make extrapolations about what can or cannot happen, and what must be true given the info.

To the extent that the old games require one to synthesize information, and to the extent that they are generally much harder to finish in the allotted time, they have a lot of value when preparing for modern versions of the test, if for no other reason than they make the easy games now found on the current LSAT's seem even easier, giving the examinee more time to confront games like "the Dinos".

The trick is to practice old games early in your prep and infuse the learned skills into the latter preparation. This means doing tests 45-62 during the last two months of prep and drilling on the respective games during the last month...repeatedly.

Interesting to know. Thanks for the thought and input.

[mattviphky]

studying's been going slow this past week. i was gone for a week to work and i pretty much put in like 3-4 hours over the entire week. i studied yesterday, today, and i'm pting tomrw. i go on vacation for four days on wednesday, so pretty much i'm getting 2 shitty study weeks in the middle of August. Not gonna stress it though, I'm going to hit it hard the last week of Aug until October. I'll report my score from tomrows pt later.

[mattviphky]

I've only taken a handful of pts since i started back up, and i've been pretty consistent with 164-167, but i'm really trying to get 170+. LG is coming along well, i made photocopies of everything, bought the workbook, and i'm rarely above -3. -1 or -2 is typical, but i want a -0 all the time. LR is still an asshole. -5 each section avg. But RC just suddenly clicked recently. I was just reading the passage, and boom! It all started making sense. Like in the matrix when Neo sees lines of programming, i just saw right through the bullshit of the rc passages and could start forming answers in my head. diagramming tips from dave's thread helped a lot with this. Went from like -6 avg to a -3. PT this shit out of September and get that 170+ in October. LR needs work still...

[RaleighStClair]

LR is still an asshole. -5 each section avg.

With you on that one, man.

October retaker (cancelled June) here as well. We have similar PT breakdowns, so I'll be following your progress as motivation. Good luck!

[Spacemyace]

I've only taken a handful of pts since i started back up, and i've been pretty consistent with 164-167, but i'm really trying to get 170+. LG is coming along well, i made photocopies of everything, bought the workbook, and i'm rarely above -3. -1 or -2 is typical, but i want a -0 all the time. LR is still an asshole. -5 each section avg. But RC just suddenly clicked recently. I was just reading the passage, and boom! It all started making sense. Like in the matrix when Neo sees lines of programming, i just saw right through the bullshit of the rc passages and could start forming answers in my head. diagramming tips from dave's thread helped a lot with this. Went from like -6 avg to a -3. PT this shit out of September and get that 170+ in October. LR needs work still...

Could you please show the link to the diagramming tips from dave thread. I am struggling so bad.

[thegoodpart]

Hey still following your thread. Fellow 155er with Oct retake. My pting has been around the same as yours lately but like you my LR has been less than stellar.

One thing that did help me though was to review the basics of prob breakdown and how to approach each. Even though from doing practice probs and pt doing the categorizing stimuli and answer choices becomes second nature, somewhere along the way I did forget some helpful things (like typical wrong answer choices and things of that nature). I went back to my LR bible and quickly reviewed some key points for each type and that refresher really helped so maybe try looking back at that stuff. After I did this I got my first 170!

Keep posting I enjoy reading about it!

[mattviphky]

I've only taken a handful of pts since i started back up, and i've been pretty consistent with 164-167, but i'm really trying to get 170+. LG is coming along well, i made photocopies of everything, bought the workbook, and i'm rarely above -3. -1 or -2 is typical, but i want a -0 all the time. LR is still an asshole. -5 each section avg. But RC just suddenly clicked recently. I was just reading the passage, and boom! It all started making sense. Like in the matrix when Neo sees lines of programming, i just saw right through the bullshit of the rc passages and could start forming answers in my head. diagramming tips from dave's thread helped a lot with this. Went from like -6 avg to a -3. PT this shit out of September and get that 170+ in October. LR needs work still...

Could you please show the link to the diagramming tips from dave thread. I am struggling so bad.

Sure, it's right in the middle of page six. It really helps. I just clicked, I just started knowing what to read for, and diagramming and reading became so much easier. Don't read it like you would a book, read it and digest every couple sentences, outlining what you think might be important. This may not be terribly fast, but you will fly through the questions. I might spend 6 minutes reading, then 3 minutes answering questions (maybe not that much, but you get the picture) If you are only doing RC in your pts stop! Its a good idea to just chill out, relax, and do a couple rc passages like you would games, then just go over them. don't stress yourself or time yourself for a while, once you see how the passage is written, it becomes much easier.

[mattviphky]

Finally did it!!!! 170 on pt 37 (June 02)!!! Went -3/-3 LR, -3 RC, and -1 LG. Pretty tough curve, but i think the lr was somewhat easier than usual. I typically don't go -3/-3, more like -4/-5, so this was awesome to see. RC has improved drastically in the last couple weeks, and I'm trying to get my LG down to a consistent -0. It seems like I can never crack -0 on this section, I always mess up something small. But I am pumped about this! Study for a few more hours today, tomorrow, then pt on saturday. One 170 is a good thing, but if I break 170 Saturday, then I'll feel like a champ. Aiming for a 172 in October. I look at pictures of WUSTL to stay motivated.

[proxy]

Grats dude. I know that feels good.

[Spacemyace]

I've only taken a handful of pts since i started back up, and i've been pretty consistent with 164-167, but i'm really trying to get 170+. LG is coming along well, i made photocopies of everything, bought the workbook, and i'm rarely above -3. -1 or -2 is typical, but i want a -0 all the time. LR is still an asshole. -5 each section avg. But RC just suddenly clicked recently. I was just reading the passage, and boom! It all started making sense. Like in the matrix when Neo sees lines of programming, i just saw right through the bullshit of the rc passages and could start forming answers in my head. diagramming tips from dave's thread helped a lot with this. Went from like -6 avg to a -3. PT this shit out of September and get that 170+ in October. LR needs work still...

Could you please show the link to the diagramming tips from dave thread. I am struggling so bad.

Sure, it's right in the middle of page six. It really helps. I just clicked, I just started knowing what to read for, and diagramming and reading became so much easier. Don't read it like you would a book, read it and digest every couple sentences, outlining what you think might be important. This may not be terribly fast, but you will fly through the questions. I might spend 6 minutes reading, then 3 minutes answering questions (maybe not that much, but you get the picture) If you are only doing RC in your pts stop! Its a good idea to just chill out, relax, and do a couple rc passages like you would games, then just go over them. don't stress yourself or time yourself for a while, once you see how the passage is written, it becomes much easier.

Thanks for the advise but I'm still not able to find the thread or link to the RC. Could you please direct better. I just can't even break 150 as it is. Need all the help I can get. I'm only doing 2 RC passages per test due to time so with LG. I can only attempt upto 18 questions per LR. I am in a bad position. Pls help with link and any advise you might have. Thanks.

[mattviphky]

Just took pt 34 (i think), it's Dec 2001. I'm pretty happy with my results. I went -5/-3 LR, -3 RC, and -4 LG. I was pretty bummed about LG, I couldn't believe how hard it was. First game was pretty hard for being the first game, and 2 and 3 were just plain difficult. The fourth game was pretty easy, but it was a welcomed relief after the game about seats on a bus. It was pretty much my fault cuz I missed a rule, and it through my inferences all out of whack, but it was still a really hard game, and not having a key rule made it that much more difficult. I threw in a really easy LG experimental, so that helped me out a little bit I'm sure. I also go over on time with my RC sections, it usually takes me 40 minutes to finish it, and it always takes one passage to slow me down. On this one, I was at 9 minutes for the first, and 7 for the third and fourth...but about 15 minutes for the second! LR went alright, I'm getting better, hopefully this becomes a consistent showing, but I never feel comfortable going thru it, I always feel like i COULD be missing anywhere from -0 to -10. RC is getting better. Anyway I went -15 which gave me a 167. I'm definitely happy about the progress, I wish LG would have gone better, I would have loved posted a 170, but I'm happy with the way things are going. I'm gonna buy the new 10 LSAts book I think its 51-60 or something. Aiming for a 170+ on test day, I really can't get below a 168. I'm trying to get into WUSTL, and it is only a viable option with good money. I want to go to law school, but I'm not willing to go below T1 and without significant scholarship. Not trying to sound like a snob, I just don't like the idea of taking on a great deal of debt, nor limiting my job options in a bad economy, especially given my fairly lofty career goals. as good a clerkship as i can get-->biglaw, academia.

[mattviphky]

just a quick edit, i give myself 35 minutes to finish each section, however, on RC I've been giving myself an extra five minutes to finish it up. im trying to tighten up my times as i pt this next month.

[northwood]

just found this thread. BEst of luck, but make sure to give yourself 35 minutes or less to help you get as accurate of an assessment on your performance on RC as possible.

Question- do you always do the games/ passages in order or do you preview them and go with the ones that you are most comfortable with first?- Doing that gives you more time for the most difficult ones ( and if time runs low allows you to answer which questions are the easiest and most straightforward and random guess hte rest)

Hope you rock it in october!

[mattviphky]

Just took PT 63, the latest LSAT from June. Didn't do nearly as well as I had hoped. It's been like almost 3 months since the test, and I haven't really agonized the material since the put it up on LSAC, so it was all rather fresh. I did LR, exp lg, RC, LG, LR. I went -4 on the first LR, so not bad, I went -5 on the real one. -6 on RC, kinda pissed about that, I went -8 on the real one. LG was a bad showing, went -5, went -8 on the real one. I couldn't believe I missed 5, nothing stood out as hard, when I review I know I'm going to see a lot of dumb mistakes on that one. The last LR went -4, went -8 on the real one, for a -19, or 164. I got a 158 on the real one. I think a major part of me doing relatively bad in June was the fact that I hadn't built up my stamina or speed like I should have. I didn't work in a 5th section until like my last 3 pts before the test, and even then i just threw it in as my last section and didn't really give a shit about it. This is a problem I've since corrected. I also had a ridiculously easy LG exp in the real one before the actual LG section. I didn't miss anything on this LG, and in the back of my mind I knew that it wasn't real because it was much too simple, but I still choked when I got to the real thing. Overall, I'm ok with the fact that I got a 164. It was my first LSAT outside of the 30's since I started studying again, and I wasn't too shaken by the differences, although the comparative reading passage was a curve ball. LR still needs work, but my RC I was pretty bummed with. I was -3 consistently in the 30's, and then dropped to -6. I actually didn't miss any on Chopin hahaha, I just dropped 2 each on the other sections. I'm hoping these were just dumb mistakes and nothing that I should be too worried about. LG was bad, went from a consistent -2 to -5, which I'm hoping was also just stupid mistakes. I know stupid mistakes count just as much as real mistakes, but I would feel better knowing that it is easily correctible. I'm aiming for a 170+ in October, so I'm still drilling away on LG, reviewing, and taking PTS. Really, I don't have much more endurance than that. I try to fit in an LR section and a few RC passages between tests, but I value my pt material a great deal and I don't want to allocate too many to this sort of thing. I just redo my PT pretty much as my review. I guess I should start making photocopies of my RC too, but LR is too much of a pain in the ass to copy, so I just take my pencil and circle every answer choice before I go back through it. So last 3 pts have been 170, 167, 164....kinda bummed about the dip, but fuck it, my next one will be 170. Just ordered the book with 52-62 or something, other than that I just have the free LSAC june 07 one to do until that one comes in. peace tls

[mattviphky]

Just took the first pt of september. It was pt 53, i think it was something like December 07? I was a little bit harder on myself with this one, I usually put my experimental in a favorable spot and it's usually LG. But today I put it as my 3rd section and it was LR...which sucked, hope to God I don't have an LR exp. on the real deal. So my set-up was LR, LG, LR, LR, RC. Brutal. Anyway I went -6/-3 on LR, -3 on LG, and -4 on RC. I think (hope) that the -6 came from me just not being warm. It was my first section, and it felt rough going through it all. I think I need to warm up for a while before i pt again, anyways I really hope this is the problem. I was fairly satisfied with the LR tho. LG was disappointing cuz I missed all 3 on one game because I misread a rule. The game wasn't even hard, it's not like I went through it thinking things didn't make sense, it was just a subtle difference in rule and it cost me big. Coulda gone -0 on LG, lesson learned, I need to quit being complacent with LG. RC is always a question mark, especially now that I'm taking the 50s, the RC is ridiculous. I don't do bad on this section, but I really have absolutely no idea how it will go. So went -16 outta 100 for an 84 which scaled out to a 166. If I had just fixed up my LG I coulda been sitting pretty at 168...ah lesson learned that's what pts are for. So far it's been 170, 167, 164, 166 over my last 4 pts. Aiming for 170 on the next one.

[lakers3peat]

which passages gave you the most trouble on PT 63?


What was your exact break down if you don't mind saying..?


I did pretty badly on the RC at the time, I thought it was just my mindset because I was really REALLY frustrated, almost thought about cancelling in the middle of a section, but then I took it again as a practice section and I still did pretty badly on it. Thats when I realized I needed to do more RC practice but ya, I'd love to hear your breakdown/opinion of PT63's RC section.

Are u typically good at RC?

[mattviphky]

I thought I was getting better at RC honestly, I was doing -3 in the 30s, but so far the 50s haven't been terribly kind to me, a -6 and a -4. But with 63, I missed 2 on each section except for Chopin (where I missed none) when I took it a few days ago. I honestly don't know why, I've said this a couple times ITT I just don't get RC, I just go with a notion and it usually works out. I wish I could explain what gets me in this section. I think it sometimes has to do with ambiguous phrasing. Like the passage will say something, the question will ask about it, and I'll eliminate all but 2 answers that each could be reasonably right. idk man, but I'll tell you what helped me, just taking a bunch of RC, eventually it all begins to click, seriously. Take notes on the side as well because it will def help you remember the key facts you are writing down and help you really think about the material. Before I did this I found myself going back to the passage a whole bunch and doing a lot of rereading, but when you take notes you begin to fly through the questions because the whole process helped you digest everything. So that's pretty much what I did, just took notes on the side and things became easier to read and answer.