155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

dba415
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155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby dba415 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm

So I got a 155 on my first ever practice test, no prep, and under less than optimal test taking conditions (had not eaten breakfast yet, and was tired)

I scored 67% on the logical reasoning, 69% on reading comprehension, and 57% on logic games.

I would be gunning for a 165+ and will only try to probably apply to UT Law (based on cost and other factors)

Based on those details what should be my course of plan?

I want to take the October LSAT and take it only once, I would devote most of my summer to studying for it OR I can take a class. Because I really only want to get into one school (realistically) the class seems like a worthy investment.

2011Law
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby 2011Law » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:18 pm

My recommendation is to get all three Bibles, and at least all the PTs (except for those few that are hard to find for whatever reason) from '10 More' on. Aim for 180, a 155 diag is good.

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lastch2
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby lastch2 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:19 pm

you don't need to take a class. get on the pithypike method and the SOS method. that's it. if you start now, you'll be ready to take it june probably and can apply early to UT and have an even better chance of getting in. this place is full of advice, just browse the forum!

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JamMasterJ
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:29 pm

Dude, a 155 Diagnostic is way higher than you think it is. Increases from doing the LR Bible and The LG Bible can get you where you want to be, but yeah, as the poster above said, do Pithypike's method.

dba415
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby dba415 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:54 pm

I know that 155 is decent but I admit am unfamiliar with the possible gains from studying. 10 points seems like a lot to gain from studying, but I guess it isn't?

I know this is not the proper place to ask but how much does applying ED increase your chances at UT? I am not sure I want to study right now as I also am taking classes (undergrad at ut) but if it's worth it...

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JazzOne
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby JazzOne » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:15 pm

dba415 wrote:I know that 155 is decent but I admit am unfamiliar with the possible gains from studying. 10 points seems like a lot to gain from studying, but I guess it isn't?

I know this is not the proper place to ask but how much does applying ED increase your chances at UT? I am not sure I want to study right now as I also am taking classes (undergrad at ut) but if it's worth it...

A 10-point gain is not uncommon at all. I would take a good look at the resources on TLS before I paid for a course. I really don't know how much it helps to apply ED to UT, but since it's nonbinding, you might as well get your application in early.

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puff0ffluff
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby puff0ffluff » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:45 pm

dba415 wrote:So I got a 155 on my first ever practice test, no prep, and under less than optimal test taking conditions (had not eaten breakfast yet, and was tired)

I scored 67% on the logical reasoning, 69% on reading comprehension, and 57% on logic games.

I would be gunning for a 165+ and will only try to probably apply to UT Law (based on cost and other factors)

Based on those details what should be my course of plan?

I want to take the October LSAT and take it only once, I would devote most of my summer to studying for it OR I can take a class. Because I really only want to get into one school (realistically) the class seems like a worthy investment.


um, not sure if this will help, but for my first practice test i got 172 using the following concepts:

logic games: ~96% draw charts in the margins. if one of the answers looks like it won't match the chart, eliminate it. drawing charts should only take a 10-15 seconds max

reading comprehension: ~93% skim generalities, underline main pts. if the answer seems iffy, eliminate it. don't waste time justifying maybe answers unless NONE of them seem right (should only happen 10% of time, max)

logical reasoning: ~92% kind of cheated on this a little... before I took the full diagnostic test, i tried doing a spare logical reasoning section in my upperclassman friend's test book. she gave me some tips before i did my own diagnostic test: "read everything carefully. don't misread words, especially in the answers. if the answer seems even a little irrelevant, then chances are it's wrong"

beaubois
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby beaubois » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:59 pm

Start by doing all the bibles. Buy all the published tests and start by taking them with no time limit. when you get a good score consistently, reduce the time. Any smartish person that works hard can get -0 to -3 on logic games.

As far as diagnostics... start by taking an non-timed test that is pretty recent. The score you get is close to your ceiling I think (except that it is possible to master the games section even if you do horrible on your first try).

2011Law
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby 2011Law » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:03 am

JazzOne wrote:
dba415 wrote:I know that 155 is decent but I admit am unfamiliar with the possible gains from studying. 10 points seems like a lot to gain from studying, but I guess it isn't?

I know this is not the proper place to ask but how much does applying ED increase your chances at UT? I am not sure I want to study right now as I also am taking classes (undergrad at ut) but if it's worth it...

A 10-point gain is not uncommon at all. I would take a good look at the resources on TLS before I paid for a course. I really don't know how much it helps to apply ED to UT, but since it's nonbinding, you might as well get your application in early.


+1

I started at about 147 or so, after the Bibles and first 5 PTs I got the hang of it sorta. Did the 30 most recent PTs (from Next 10 on) and got a 168 (my average just before the test). I regret not starting at 10 More.

Again, go for a 180. Even if you still want to take UT over Harvard, you can at least go there for free.

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RonnyDworkin
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby RonnyDworkin » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:18 am

I started with that score on my first test. Now I'm scoring in the high 70s with the occasional low 70s. It was more of training myself to think in like manner to the testmakers. Now until Oct, you should try taking some logic course or reading some philosophy. I come from an analytical philosophy background. My biggest thing on the first LSAT preptest I took was always thinking about counterfactuals. This way of thinking, though generally helpful in a philosophy discourse, was actually detrimental on the LSAT. It took up too much time.

Just self-prep. Unless you lack motivation, it's definitely doable. Use some group sessions or tutoring if all else fails.

One thing you should think about is your reading comp. My reading comp has always been pretty decent. The reason my diagnostic was so low was due to the LG: I just didn't know how to approach those questions. I knew logic; I just didn't know how to draw out the different scenarios. You have a lot of time from now until then. Maybe take a critical thinking course? Or even teach one?

Buy the bibles (LR and LG). I haven't tried RC. They will give you a basic understanding of the question type. But really, you want to get to a situation where you're not dependent on the "tricks of the trade." What I mean here is that you should get comfortable enough with the type of questions and reasoning used by the testmakers that you would only use the powerscore tricks (e.g., negation for weaken Qs) to double check an answer. The answers should come "naturally" to you, almost to the point of being second natured. I know people bitch about this and that section on the LSAt not have any relevance to real-life, but really the skills tested by the LSAT are important: reasoning skills, logic, reading comp and the ability to see the pieces of the puzzle, etc. You need these skills not only to be a lawyer, but a critical thinker.


HTH

-- Ronny D

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JazzOne
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby JazzOne » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:05 am

RonnyDworkin wrote:I started with that score on my first test. Now I'm scoring in the high 70s with the occasional low 70s. It was more of training myself to think in like manner to the testmakers. Now until Oct, you should try taking some logic course or reading some philosophy. I come from an analytical philosophy background. My biggest thing on the first LSAT preptest I took was always thinking about counterfactuals. This way of thinking, though generally helpful in a philosophy discourse, was actually detrimental on the LSAT. It took up too much time.

Just self-prep. Unless you lack motivation, it's definitely doable. Use some group sessions or tutoring if all else fails.

One thing you should think about is your reading comp. My reading comp has always been pretty decent. The reason my diagnostic was so low was due to the LG: I just didn't know how to approach those questions. I knew logic; I just didn't know how to draw out the different scenarios. You have a lot of time from now until then. Maybe take a critical thinking course? Or even teach one?

Buy the bibles (LR and LG). I haven't tried RC. They will give you a basic understanding of the question type. But really, you want to get to a situation where you're not dependent on the "tricks of the trade." What I mean here is that you should get comfortable enough with the type of questions and reasoning used by the testmakers that you would only use the powerscore tricks (e.g., negation for weaken Qs) to double check an answer. The answers should come "naturally" to you, almost to the point of being second natured. I know people bitch about this and that section on the LSAt not have any relevance to real-life, but really the skills tested by the LSAT are important: reasoning skills, logic, reading comp and the ability to see the pieces of the puzzle, etc. You need these skills not only to be a lawyer, but a critical thinker.


HTH

-- Ronny D

lol

Nice handle

bartleby
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby bartleby » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:58 am

Take a class. A lot of people here are super smart and super motivated. Not trying to be a dick but if you are aiming for a 165, you might not fall under the 2nd category.

$1,500 is a tough pill to swallow but the LSAT can either be your golden goose or the wall of shit that stands in your way. Have a little faith.

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lastch2
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby lastch2 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:19 am

bartleby wrote:Take a class. A lot of people here are super smart and super motivated. Not trying to be a dick but if you are aiming for a 165, you might not fall under the 2nd category.

$1,500 is a tough pill to swallow but the LSAT can either be your golden goose or the wall of shit that stands in your way. Have a little faith.


if you're definitely not taking the lsat until october i would wait on the class until you see what some self-study does to your score. if you've never had a logic class then LR and LG are really foreign ways of reasoning. once you work through the bibles assess yourself and decide if you need to take a summer course. that's MHO anyways

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arvcondor
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby arvcondor » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:37 am

bartleby wrote:Take a class. A lot of people here are super smart and super motivated. Not trying to be a dick but if you are aiming for a 165, you might not fall under the 2nd category.
If you weren't trying to be a dick, you failed.

bartleby
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby bartleby » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:47 am

arvcondor wrote:
bartleby wrote:Take a class. A lot of people here are super smart and super motivated. Not trying to be a dick but if you are aiming for a 165, you might not fall under the 2nd category.
If you weren't trying to be a dick, you failed.


+1

tomwatts
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby tomwatts » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:49 am

bartleby wrote:
arvcondor wrote:
bartleby wrote:Take a class. A lot of people here are super smart and super motivated. Not trying to be a dick but if you are aiming for a 165, you might not fall under the 2nd category.
If you weren't trying to be a dick, you failed.


+1

To be fair, you're just saying that he just succeeded without trying. He would've only failed if he had been trying not to be a dick, rather than not trying to be a dick.

A class could be helpful. It structures your studying completely and gives you all the materials that you need. It's neither necessary for a good score nor sufficient if you don't put in the work to do all the homework, etc., but it can be helpful. Self-study is possible, too.

TyrodTaylor
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby TyrodTaylor » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:13 am

I was in the sane boat as you last august. I took my first pt by myself and got a 155. I only had aim at one school for the same reasons as you. I didn't take a class. All I did was buy the LG bible and about 23 prep tests and studied for four months on my own time. I got a 167. I am confident I could have done better with more time, but I think with that 155 it means you already get the test, the rest is just up to practice and mastery. Study diligently, learn what works for you. I now am planning to attend a much better school than I had originally thought. Good luck. Get those bibles though, if I had bought all 3, I'd have had a 170

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puff0ffluff
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby puff0ffluff » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:02 am

arvcondor wrote:
bartleby wrote:Take a class. A lot of people here are super smart and super motivated. Not trying to be a dick but if you are aiming for a 165, you might not fall under the 2nd category.
If you weren't trying to be a dick, you failed.


I don't mean to sound rude, but bartleby's right. The fact is that the job market sucks, and law is one of those all-or-nothing careers... as future lawyers, we should get use to hearing the unpleasant truths

bartleby
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Re: 155 on practice test...REALLY REALLY need a 165!

Postby bartleby » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:58 am

I intentionally phrased it rudely because it is an online forum. But law school is all or nothing and the LSAT is the most important thing. Getting the three bibles and plopping down for four hours a day for 3 months is not for everyone and I think it can even be bad advice.

Be true to yourself. How motivated are you? How much do you REALLY like pressing through a ton of dense material without anyone offering a teachback explanation. Just saying not everyone here is KnockGlock. From personal experience.

Case in point: I am not sure what TomWatts even said and I don't plan on figuring it out. Probably because he is an LSAT teacher for a real test prep company and I dropped out of the Kaplan training process.

I hope you shoot for a 180 and end up getting a 175. 165 is no lock for Texas.




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