Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

m3taphysician
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Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby m3taphysician » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:56 pm

Hi everyone,

Sorry to create another one of these threads, I'm just really stressed about the decision I have in front of me.

I think I nailed LR; I'd be surprised if I got more than 2 wrong between both sections. I had to blind guess on 3 LG questions, which sucks because I usually only get 0-2 wrong on LG.

My issue is the RC - it felt like one of the worst LSAT sections I've ever taken. At one point during the section I considered quitting and just spending the remaining 8 minutes praying it was the experimental... I must have ended up "soft-guessing" (not blind, eliminating a couple of answer choices, but not confident) on anywhere from 7-10 of these.

I really want 170+ on the LSAT ---- do you guys think I should cancel or take my chances? I guess the answer is really contingent upon what you guys think the curve will look like.


I'd really appreciate any replies.

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northwood
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby northwood » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:01 am

where was the RC section? if the section in questino was in the first 3, and you had another Rc- then its the exp.
if its not, then it counts, and you need to look over your performance on RC and the rest of hte test. I belive that if you have taken enough pts, and you didnt do as well on one section, the other 3 sections should help you get to your pt range. It all depends on how you feel you did on the rest of the test. Sounds like you nailed the 2 LR sections, and did pretty well on LG ( -3), so with a -`10 to a -13, ( assuming you got all of those guesses wrong), with a curve of -11( just to pick one), you are looking at a 171- 168 range. Would you be happy with this? if you can live with a 168 ( and know that you can re take in June), keep it. if a 168 scares you awake for a month straight- cancel.

m3taphysician
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby m3taphysician » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:08 am

Thanks for your thoughtful reply Northwood,

I guess I just have this weird fear that I could have misjudged my LR and actually gotten 2-4 wrong, which could put me as low as a 166 or something. A 168 I could live with, but a 166 would thrust me into depression (after 6 months of hardcore prep and PT averages at 171). The uncertainty is really killing me right now.

ETA: I would be ecstatic with a 171.

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northwood
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby northwood » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:13 am

with a pt average f 171 you have to realize a lot of students dont perform that well on the day of the test. it is common to see people perform a few points below their pt average0 due to a variety of reasons, the extra pressure of the real thing, trouble sleeping the night before, more distractions, the paper change, etc. It also depends on what schools you want. the top 6 do average scores, while the majority of the rest only take the best score. If you are okay with not going to the top 6 ranked schools, then keep it. If you are HYS or no law school- then cancel.

Also- how did you feel as soon as you finished the test? did you know if you were going to cancel or keep it? After the test, a lot of people over analyze their performance( i know i did in october) and rush to cancel- when in fact they performed within their pt range. now they get to do it all over again. With all of the prep you did, you need to trust your skills. You dont know what the curve is ( i just threw out a -11 and the recent curves were -12,-12,-14 for june, oct, and dec of 2010). so you cant get a good estimate of the scaled score.

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Stonewall
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby Stonewall » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:15 am

m3taphysician wrote:Thanks for your thoughtful reply Northwood,

I guess I just have this weird fear that I could have misjudged my LR and actually gotten 2-4 wrong, which could put me as low as a 166 or something. A 168 I could live with, but a 166 would thrust me into depression (after 6 months of hardcore prep and PT averages at 171). The uncertainty is really killing me right now.

ETA: I would be ecstatic with a 171.


rc is the largest section which is good to take note of. I would wait another day or two, you only took it yesterday, to make a decision. IMO I would stick it out because I did +4 off my gut when I took it in oct. Good luck

m3taphysician
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby m3taphysician » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:22 am

northwood wrote:with a pt average f 171 you have to realize a lot of students dont perform that well on the day of the test. it is common to see people perform a few points below their pt average0 due to a variety of reasons, the extra pressure of the real thing, trouble sleeping the night before, more distractions, the paper change, etc. It also depends on what schools you want. the top 6 do average scores, while the majority of the rest only take the best score. If you are okay with not going to the top 6 ranked schools, then keep it. If you are HYS or no law school- then cancel.

Also- how did you feel as soon as you finished the test? did you know if you were going to cancel or keep it? After the test, a lot of people over analyze their performance( i know i did in october) and rush to cancel- when in fact they performed within their pt range. now they get to do it all over again. With all of the prep you did, you need to trust your skills. You dont know what the curve is ( i just threw out a -11 and the recent curves were -12,-12,-14 for june, oct, and dec of 2010). so you cant get a good estimate of the scaled score.

Thanks again for your help. And thank you as well, Stonewall.

I am hoping for HYS (I would take my chances with 171 because of my GPA), but would be fine with CCN as well.

My feelings after the test were sort of weird... I, for some reason, had a big smile on my face, and I felt good even despite the RC and the guesses on LG. I had two RC sections; the first (which I felt OK about) was experimental, but I felt terrible about the second one (the graded section). I literally had to soft guess on 7-10 of the questions, and in general RC is already my weakness, so there's no guarantee that I was correct in the answers I was more confident about! Hell, I could have gotten something like 12 wrong in that one RC section alone!

One of my concerns is that I have already exhausted 58/62 PTs, and won't have a lot of fresh material to work with going into June. Damn, this is not an easy decision.

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jcunni5
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby jcunni5 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:23 am

I missed 8 on the RC section and still pulled out a 171, i would just roll with it especially if you nailed the other sections (or at least you think you did)

m3taphysician
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby m3taphysician » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:25 am

jcunni5 wrote:I missed 8 on the RC section and still pulled out a 171, i would just roll with it especially if you nailed the other sections (or at least you think you did)

Yeah but what was the curve on your test? This one definitely didn't seem as tough as Oct or Dec (having taken them as PTs), so I imagine the Feb curve will be less forgiving.

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northwood
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby northwood » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:25 am

what were your most recent pt scores? GO back trhough the last 10 pts that you took, and see how you did. im sure your actual score will be somehwere in that range, or close to it.

You did a ton of prep work. trust your prep,and your skills

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luckyme
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby luckyme » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:25 am

i would keep it

m3taphysician
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby m3taphysician » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:29 am

northwood wrote:what were your most recent pt scores? GO back trhough the last 10 pts that you took, and see how you did. im sure your actual score will be somehwere in that range, or close to it.

You did a ton of prep work. trust your prep,and your skills

Last six tests: 167, 174, 180 (lol), 168, 173, 171 --- but on each of these tests I got either -0 or -1 on LG (I guessed E on all three of my LG guesses, and I heard that was not good lol)... also I have literally never bombed a section like this RC before.

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northwood
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby northwood » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:32 am

keep it

you might not have done as bad as you think you did

m3taphysician
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby m3taphysician » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:36 am

That's what I've been telling myself too, but here's my concern, and I think it's legitimate.

Let's be cynical for a minute, because I am sort of pessimistic generally (note the Camus avatar):
Figure I get all 3 LG guesses wrong ---- -3
Figure I get 11 RC comp wrong (oy vey!) ---- -11
Figure I get 3 LR wrong ---- -3
= -17

All of a sudden I'm looking at a 164-5, and I am not getting into HYS, and have a low chance at CCN... what for? Because I have an outside chance at a 170+?

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holdencaulfield
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby holdencaulfield » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:39 am

northwood wrote:keep it

you might not have done as bad as you think you did


+1

m3taphysician
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby m3taphysician » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:00 am

m3taphysician wrote:That's what I've been telling myself too, but here's my concern, and I think it's legitimate.

Let's be cynical for a minute, because I am sort of pessimistic generally (note the Camus avatar):
Figure I get all 3 LG guesses wrong ---- -3
Figure I get 11 RC comp wrong (oy vey!) ---- -11
Figure I get 3 LR wrong ---- -3
= -17

All of a sudden I'm looking at a 164-5, and I am not getting into HYS, and have a low chance at CCN... what for? Because I have an outside chance at a 170+?


Anyone else here think that this is a legitimate concern?

I mean, the best possible upside to keeping my score is that I get something like a 170-3, which I could achieve in June (or even October) but the downside is so bad that it could really disqualify me from the T6...

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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby DaveMT » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:19 am

The 1sr or second RC section? I took it as well and assumed the 1st was exp.

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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby kob » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:26 am

M3ta,

I had the exact same experience - actually haven't gotten a games question wrong in months, and hit the 4th game with 5 minutes left, and guessed on the last question. Was PTing solidly in the 169-172 range with a few high and low outliers every once in a while. I think LR went well, and RC is just a toss up right now. Personally I'm a bit neurotic, but after a lot of thought am just going to keep it. Worst case, I bomb it, apply to schools, go to the best one I get into, and go from there - if I love it stay, if I hate it transfer.

It's hard to see the forest through the trees right now, but this test isn't the be all and end all of law school. I know kids who didn't do great on their first LSAT, kept it, retook it and still wound up at Yale. Good luck with whatever you choose, but I'd wait until later tomorrow or Wednesday before you decide anything! If you haven't taken it before though I might just keep it though based on your PT'S and skill - also, who is to say the June LSAT won't be just as tough/harder and the same thing could happen. I think that 98% you can prepare for, but there's always that small margin that's just unpredictable and totally up to the LSAT gods (order of sections, which one is experimental, test center...). Best wishes!

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LSATWIZ
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby LSATWIZ » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:28 am

m3taphysician wrote:Hi everyone,

Sorry to create another one of these threads, I'm just really stressed about the decision I have in front of me.

I think I nailed LR; I'd be surprised if I got more than 2 wrong between both sections. I had to blind guess on 3 LG questions, which sucks because I usually only get 0-2 wrong on LG.

My issue is the RC - it felt like one of the worst LSAT sections I've ever taken. At one point during the section I considered quitting and just spending the remaining 8 minutes praying it was the experimental... I must have ended up "soft-guessing" (not blind, eliminating a couple of answer choices, but not confident) on anywhere from 7-10 of these.

I really want 170+ on the LSAT ---- do you guys think I should cancel or take my chances? I guess the answer is really contingent upon what you guys think the curve will look like.


I'd really appreciate any replies.

What schools are you applying to?

What were your scores on practice tests - I'm just curious what 7-10 q's will look like?

Was it shocking to struggle with RC? One thing to keep in mind is what went crappy vs. what on average will go crappy.

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vissidarte27
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby vissidarte27 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:42 am

You just described EXACTLY how I feel about my own LSAT experience on Saturday. I can't remember the last time I got an LG question wrong and I'm pretty sure the last time I ran out of time on LG was early December, but I had to guess on three or four questions because I ran out of time. I thought LR was easy and that I might have nailed it, but RC was difficult and I, again, ran out of time and had to blind guess on 4 questions. I'm also shooting for 170 and my average is somewhere around 172 (last batch of scores that I can remember: 170, 176, 175, 171).

I'm keeping my score because I'm not applying T6 so I don't have any advice there, but I do empathize. It's disappointing to feel that you didn't perform to the best of your abilities.

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LSATWIZ
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby LSATWIZ » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:44 am

If you're applying to top 6, I would cancel. Most of them will look only at the higher one if there's a big improvement, but there are so many applicants who will likely attend with 175+ that your score is not as impressive so u want all advantages.

m3taphysician
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby m3taphysician » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:49 am

Kob, thanks for your reply. My range was basically exactly the same (as you can see in my earlier posts), but I really do not want to settle for any school out of the T6... at that point, I'd try something else and maybe re-apply a couple of years later (something I do not want to do). And I realize June could be rough too. But I have this feeling that if I spend all of May doing 3-4 complete RC sections every single day, I could really improve my score (notice trends, identify argument templates, determine key words, etc.).

LSATWIZ - I really want to go to HYS, but would be perfectly fine with CCN.
As for the info on PTs, it can be found in the above posts, but my average was a 171.8 (lol)... I would be happy with 170+ considering my GPA, which is thankfully very strong.

As far as how I fare in RC generally, it really varies. Obviously I performed better on RC from the earlier PTs, where I would consistently get between 1-4 wrong. On the more recent tests it varied greatly... For instance, on June 07 and 09, I got only one RC question wrong, and for Oct 08 I got 2 wrong, but on December 07 and 09 I did much worse (-6 and -9!). Although I can safely say that with the possible exception of December 09, I have never felt as bad about an RC section as I did about the graded section of the February exam.


ETA: I'm really leaning towards canceling. I just don't see enough upside in keeping this score, versus the downside of seriously damaging my candidacy for HYSCCN (particularly HYN).

kob
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby kob » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:03 pm

if you think you can mentally keep it goin, then have at that June test! If HYSCCN is it for you then get into the mindset that you're gonna slay that beast with a trident (saw that somewhere on this site and thought it was amazing), and cancel your score. I also would recommend AGAINST doing 3-4 sections per day - your brain can only handle so much and burnout is def possible. Just do one or two for quality, and learn how to read. Sounds dumb, but everyday reading isn't LSAT reading - get a feel for tone, argument shifts, who the key players are and what they stand to gain/lose/why they'd think something etc. Also, whenever I redid a PT RC section, I would do noticably better (0-1 wrong total), so I don't think re-doing sections is necessarily helpful or a good indicator of how you'll do.

And just for perspective, all of the kids around me on test day were wigging out and talking about their test prep, scores, etc... I really don't like doing that on test day (I think it makes you look a bit douchy??). People were talking about how they def were getting 175+, how much they studied, how they were gonna go for free etc... everyone then looked at me waiting for a contribution, and I said "I plan to snag a husband and drop out by 3L". The looks of horror were pretty priceless.

m3taphysician
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Re: Canceling Because of ONE bad section (RC)?

Postby m3taphysician » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:14 pm

kob wrote:if you think you can mentally keep it goin, then have at that June test! If HYSCCN is it for you then get into the mindset that you're gonna slay that beast with a trident (saw that somewhere on this site and thought it was amazing), and cancel your score. I also would recommend AGAINST doing 3-4 sections per day - your brain can only handle so much and burnout is def possible. Just do one or two for quality, and learn how to read. Sounds dumb, but everyday reading isn't LSAT reading - get a feel for tone, argument shifts, who the key players are and what they stand to gain/lose/why they'd think something etc. Also, whenever I redid a PT RC section, I would do noticably better (0-1 wrong total), so I don't think re-doing sections is necessarily helpful or a good indicator of how you'll do.

And just for perspective, all of the kids around me on test day were wigging out and talking about their test prep, scores, etc... I really don't like doing that on test day (I think it makes you look a bit douchy??). People were talking about how they def were getting 175+, how much they studied, how they were gonna go for free etc... everyone then looked at me waiting for a contribution, and I said "I plan to snag a husband and drop out by 3L". The looks of horror were pretty priceless.

Thanks again for a great reply! And you might be right about the brute-force approach to RC.. damn, and I was so excited about doing 12 passages a day :P !

As for re-doing RC, I'm just going to have to do so. I only have 3 untouched ("virgin") LSATs, so I figure/hope/pray that if I wait a solid 5 weeks before I return to LSAT materials and start with the earliest PTs, they will appear fairly new to me. I know that I have re-taken RC passages before and fucked up the second time, so maybe it's a bit different for me.

As for kids who act like schmucks on gameday because of their PT scores, they're probably just unconsciously compensating for any anxiety they might be feeling. If I were around kids saying that stuff I would have had a huge smile on my face. The kids at my test center were acting as if they were passing through the Gulag.




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