Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

darkatillam2
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Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby darkatillam2 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:04 pm

First time poster, long time lurker.


So I picked up my first Kaplan book back in November 2010. It was pretty much a waste of time and money.

After finding TLS1776's guide, I picked up all 3 Powerscore bibles along with Master the LSAT and 30 preptests.

I finished all the bibles in the month of Jan. 2011, along with the LG section of Master the LSAT (I found out through Kaplan my LG was weakest + TLS1776 recommended checking out that book if you're weak with LG), and have since then taken 3 prep tests under semi-timed conditions.

I say semi-timed because I time myself as if I had 35 minutes, then if I go over I document my overage on my LSAT spread sheet (typically I am over roughly 2-3 minutes on average per section).

Anyway, my results have been terrible. I am averaging a 154 after 3 tests and want to kill myself because I have goals to get into UCLA/USC/T5-T14 who are friendly to splitters. I am very very aware I will need at least a 170-174 based on my GPA in order to have a shot at these schools and based on my results I feel like I am NO where close to achieving that.

Since 2011, I have been putting in around 15-20 hours a week into my LSAT prep. I plan on taking it in June.

Based on all the material I've read + reviewing all my wrong answers on preptests + study tips I pick up randomly on TLS, I feel like I should be doing much better on my LSATs and I'm just getting crushed.

Conclusion: I am fundamentally stupid and should give up T1 dreams.....or......maybe this kind of thing is normal and I just need to do ______________________.

Any thoughts?

Also: my test breakdowns have been as follows if this helps:

LG: roughly -5
LR: roughly -10 PER section
RC: roughly -9

Posting that hurts my soul.

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vissidarte27
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby vissidarte27 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:06 pm

Have you been through the LR Bible? It really, really helped my LR score. I went from missing 4-8 per section to missing 2-3. That change alone made a big difference in my scores.

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akili
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby akili » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:09 pm

Have you improved at all since you started putting 15-20 hrs per week in?

Is it time that is hurting you or the types of questions? What exactly are you struggling with in each section?

You seem to be doing all the right things and looking for help in good places... Maybe give it a little more time. I feel like it takes more time to make gains in LR/RC than LG. I would focus on getting that LG score down to -0. That would help you quite a bit and it's easily workable.

June2011
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby June2011 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:14 pm

Just from my experience yesterday, devote 1month plus each LR and LG bible and you'll do fine

I didn't put enough time in the books, if I did my SN wouldn't be what it is but the Books were very helpful and would have been an even bigger asset

This is coming someone who wasted money on Kaplan

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Veyron
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:20 pm

darkatillam2 wrote:First time poster, long time lurker.


So I picked up my first Kaplan book back in November 2010. It was pretty much a waste of time and money.

After finding TLS1776's guide, I picked up all 3 Powerscore bibles along with Master the LSAT and 30 preptests.

I finished all the bibles in the month of Jan. 2011, along with the LG section of Master the LSAT (I found out through Kaplan my LG was weakest + TLS1776 recommended checking out that book if you're weak with LG), and have since then taken 3 prep tests under semi-timed conditions.

I say semi-timed because I time myself as if I had 35 minutes, then if I go over I document my overage on my LSAT spread sheet (typically I am over roughly 2-3 minutes on average per section).

Anyway, my results have been terrible. I am averaging a 154 after 3 tests and want to kill myself because I have goals to get into UCLA/USC/T5-T14 who are friendly to splitters. I am very very aware I will need at least a 170-174 based on my GPA in order to have a shot at these schools and based on my results I feel like I am NO where close to achieving that.

Since 2011, I have been putting in around 15-20 hours a week into my LSAT prep. I plan on taking it in June.

Based on all the material I've read + reviewing all my wrong answers on preptests + study tips I pick up randomly on TLS, I feel like I should be doing much better on my LSATs and I'm just getting crushed.

Conclusion: I am fundamentally stupid and should give up T1 dreams.....or......maybe this kind of thing is normal and I just need to do ______________________.

Any thoughts?

Also: my test breakdowns have been as follows if this helps:

LG: roughly -5
LR: roughly -10 PER section
RC: roughly -9

Posting that hurts my soul.


Your problem lies in not doing lots and lots of practice sections young one. Do that for a while before you take any more practice tests. After completing each section figure out why you got each question wrong. Do not move on till you have done that. Take all sections under actual timed conditions in a quiet place. If you haven't done ever released actual LSAT section by the time you take the test, you are doing it wrong.

P.S. My first practice test was in the high 150s, my actual LSAT was > 170. Took about 7 months of serious study.
Last edited by Veyron on Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

darkatillam2
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby darkatillam2 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:21 pm

Ya, I did go through the LR bible.

I think I might have to go through it again. After reading a section, I would take the 4-6 practice questions and still miss like 50% of them. Pretty face palming.

I do believe I can get my LG down to -0. Most of my errors on my PTs have been silly mistakes I overlooked or misread. Honestly though, I think the silly factor is what differentiates the great scorers from the larger masses.

I've noticed I am very weak on LR: assumption/parallel reasoning/flaw in reasoning.

Honestly though, when missing 10 per section on LR, there is nothing I am really strong at yet. Sigh... I guess I should re-read the LR bible?

It kinda sucks, because I planned on taking over 50 PTs to prepare (plus will have to read the LSAT super prep). However, based on the time left, I need to take a PT every other day, every week until test day. This is the first week I've actually done that. Dedicated 1 day to take the test, the next day to review it, then repeat. To be honest, I'm really worried about time if I have to reread the bibles.

Might not have a choice though I guess?


*edit for last poster*: I have been doing actual tests. So far I've done PTs 19, 20, 21.
Last edited by darkatillam2 on Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2011Law
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby 2011Law » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:22 pm

lol at killing yourself after 3 preptests.

I'll just post what I did.

Materials I used:
LR Bible
LG Bible
Nova's Master the LSAT (for the reading section, wasn't very useful, regret not doing RC Bible, though I heard that wasn't very useful either)
Next 10
PTs from Next 10 on
(I wish I would have started from 10 More)

Plan:
Read/do Nova's stuff for RC. Then do 10 RC sections (start with the first 10 you have).
Read/do LR Bible. Then do 10 LR sections.
Read/do LG Bible. Then do 10 LG sections.

At the end of those first 10 PTs, I avg'd about 157 or so, not to mention that I avg'd 50 min per LG section and often went over a little on LG and LR.

You seem to be aiming higher, but I ended with a 168 (my average when I took the test). Come back after you've done 10 PTs, the first bunch you do are really just to get you familiarized with the test.

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Veyron
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:23 pm

darkatillam2 wrote:Ya, I did go through the LR bible.

I think I might have to go through it again. After reading a section, I would take the 4-6 practice questions and still miss like 50% of them. Pretty face palming.

I do believe I can get my LG down to -0. Most of my errors on my PTs have been silly mistakes I overlooked or misread. Honestly though, I think the silly factor is what differentiates the great scorers from the larger masses.

I've noticed I am very weak on LR: assumption/parallel reasoning/flaw in reasoning.

Honestly though, when missing 10 per section on LR, there is nothing I am really strong at yet. Sigh... I guess I should re-read the LR bible?

It kinda sucks, because I planned on taking over 50 PTs to prepare (plus will have to read the LSAT super prep). However, based on the time left, I need to take a PT every other day, every week until test day. This is the first week I've actually done that. Dedicated 1 day to take the test, the next day to review it, then repeat. To be honest, I'm really worried about time if I have to reread the bibles.

Might not have a choice though I guess?


You should be perfecting LG sections by the time you take the test. The other sections have something to do with natural aptitude but LGs are just grinding.

2011Law
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby 2011Law » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:23 pm

oh yeah, what's your gpa or what do you think you'll end with?

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Veyron
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#(*@

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:23 pm

darkatillam2 wrote:Ya, I did go through the LR bible.

I think I might have to go through it again. After reading a section, I would take the 4-6 practice questions and still miss like 50% of them. Pretty face palming.

I do believe I can get my LG down to -0. Most of my errors on my PTs have been silly mistakes I overlooked or misread. Honestly though, I think the silly factor is what differentiates the great scorers from the larger masses.

I've noticed I am very weak on LR: assumption/parallel reasoning/flaw in reasoning.

Honestly though, when missing 10 per section on LR, there is nothing I am really strong at yet. Sigh... I guess I should re-read the LR bible?

It kinda sucks, because I planned on taking over 50 PTs to prepare (plus will have to read the LSAT super prep). However, based on the time left, I need to take a PT every other day, every week until test day. This is the first week I've actually done that. Dedicated 1 day to take the test, the next day to review it, then repeat. To be honest, I'm really worried about time if I have to reread the bibles.

Might not have a choice though I guess?


*edit for last poster*: I have been doing actual tests. So far I've done PTs 19, 20, 21.



THATS IT!!!!!!!!#@*#(*#(*@?????????????????????

No wonder you still suck.

Work harder.

darkatillam2
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby darkatillam2 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:33 pm

2011Law wrote:oh yeah, what's your gpa or what do you think you'll end with?




GPA is 3.38 I believe. Might be slightly higher according to LSAC because I managed an A+ my last quarter and my UG school doesn't factor an A+ into GPA calculations.

I assume Veyron was being sarcastic. Taking 3-4 PTs a week for 4 months is not something I'm looking forward to (but am willing to do if it means getting into the school I want).

tomwatts
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby tomwatts » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:40 pm

You may or may not need to do 50+ PTs, but you do need to do a few more than you've done. Try doing (and carefully reviewing) another 10 or so and check back in.

At least.

2011Law
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby 2011Law » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:47 pm

darkatillam2 wrote:
2011Law wrote:oh yeah, what's your gpa or what do you think you'll end with?




GPA is 3.38 I believe. Might be slightly higher according to LSAC because I managed an A+ my last quarter and my UG school doesn't factor an A+ into GPA calculations.

I assume Veyron was being sarcastic. Taking 3-4 PTs a week for 4 months is not something I'm looking forward to (but am willing to do if it means getting into the school I want).


that's pretty much what I ended up with, feel lucky that your school gives out A+s at all.

also, time your plan. I planned mine starting with the date I wanted, then worked in all my PTs at 2 PTs a week. Then include the time for the Bibles and w/e else. I also planned in 3 weeks worth of breaks. I spread it out over about 5 months.

2011Law
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby 2011Law » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:49 pm

oh yeah. more important than even the LG Bible, which is pretty important, is to figure out every mistake you make and why the right answers are right.

09042014
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby 09042014 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:52 pm

If you are getting that many wrong after doing the bibles I'd bet on idiot.

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Veyron
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:54 pm

darkatillam2 wrote:
2011Law wrote:oh yeah, what's your gpa or what do you think you'll end with?




GPA is 3.38 I believe. Might be slightly higher according to LSAC because I managed an A+ my last quarter and my UG school doesn't factor an A+ into GPA calculations.

I assume Veyron was being sarcastic. Taking 3-4 PTs a week for 4 months is not something I'm looking forward to (but am willing to do if it means getting into the school I want).


Hey, that's what worked for me. But what do I know, I just got $$ at at the T-10, its not like I got into Yale or anything.

Edit: Except I did it for 7 months and took most tests section by section, only taking a full length test every few weeks (more time for new skills to show improvement).

darkatillam2
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby darkatillam2 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:07 pm

Veyron wrote:
darkatillam2 wrote:
2011Law wrote:oh yeah, what's your gpa or what do you think you'll end with?




GPA is 3.38 I believe. Might be slightly higher according to LSAC because I managed an A+ my last quarter and my UG school doesn't factor an A+ into GPA calculations.

I assume Veyron was being sarcastic. Taking 3-4 PTs a week for 4 months is not something I'm looking forward to (but am willing to do if it means getting into the school I want).


Hey, that's what worked for me. But what do I know, I just got $$ at at the T-10, its not like I got into Yale or anything.

Edit: Except I did it for 7 months and took most tests section by section, only taking a full length test every few weeks (more time for new skills to show improvement).



This might be a good idea. Maybe i'll stop doing full section tests and split them into 1-2 sections a piece and focus on accuracy.

And yes, after doing the bibles and still missing that many, I do feel like an idiot. Hence my reason for starting this thread :P

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suspicious android
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby suspicious android » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:14 pm

Do a couple of LR and LG sections completely untimed. Give yourself an hour or more if necessary to answer all the questions. Don't move on with a question until you are confident in the answer or you are completely baffled. If you miss more than 1 or 2 per section, you need remedial practice on logic and argument evaluation. Doing any timed work before you address that is just practicing making errors at a faster rate. After you can understand the answers to 95%+ of the questions, you'll get faster with practice.

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MTal
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby MTal » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:20 pm

You are wasting time and money beating your head against a brick wall, neither of which you will ever get back. Forget about law school and go do something productive for society. I guarantee that in 5 years, you will be infinitely better off than 90 % of those who score a 160 and get into a "T1".

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Drake014
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby Drake014 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:23 pm

MTal wrote:You are wasting time and money beating your head against a brick wall, neither of which you will ever get back. Forget about law school and go do something productive for society. I guarantee that in 5 years, you will be infinitely better off than 90 % of those who score a 160 and get into a "T1".


You're such an upbeat guy :mrgreen:

darkatillam2
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby darkatillam2 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:34 am

MTal wrote:You are wasting time and money beating your head against a brick wall, neither of which you will ever get back. Forget about law school and go do something productive for society. I guarantee that in 5 years, you will be infinitely better off than 90 % of those who score a 160 and get into a "T1".



Who besides URMs get a 160 and go to a T1 :)?

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EarlCat
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby EarlCat » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:50 pm

suspicious android wrote:Do a couple of LR and LG sections completely untimed. Give yourself an hour or more if necessary to answer all the questions. Don't move on with a question until you are confident in the answer or you are completely baffled. If you miss more than 1 or 2 per section, you need remedial practice on logic and argument evaluation. Doing any timed work before you address that is just practicing making errors at a faster rate. After you can understand the answers to 95%+ of the questions, you'll get faster with practice.


THIS.

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bk1
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby bk1 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:56 pm

darkatillam2 wrote:GPA is 3.38 I believe. Might be slightly higher according to LSAC because I managed an A+ my last quarter and my UG school doesn't factor an A+ into GPA calculations.


Just FYI, even with a 180 your chances at UCLA/USC don't look too good with that GPA. You'd be better off aiming for most of the lower T14 (assuming 170+, maybe 169 for Cornell or Michigan).

darkatillam2
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby darkatillam2 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:36 pm

bk1 wrote:
darkatillam2 wrote:GPA is 3.38 I believe. Might be slightly higher according to LSAC because I managed an A+ my last quarter and my UG school doesn't factor an A+ into GPA calculations.


Just FYI, even with a 180 your chances at UCLA/USC don't look too good with that GPA. You'd be better off aiming for most of the lower T14 (assuming 170+, maybe 169 for Cornell or Michigan).



Disagree. I am a CA resident and went to another UC for undergrad. I think UCLA is quite possible even with a GPA like mine. Several people with my numbers or worse have gotten in, but obv have done so with 170+ LSAT's. That's prob the only positive thing I have going for me. The UC system always favor's CA residents. I am not saying it will be easy by any means, UCLA will be a huge reach, but it's def attainable.

I'd say the only school's I'd have 0 chance to get into with a 180 would be HYS + Boalt.

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8675309
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Re: Am I just an idiot and have no hope....

Postby 8675309 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:30 pm

I went over what I was doing wrong on LR and picking out the consistently wrong types of questions. I then went and bought cambridge LSAT's LR questions by grouping on those that I was doing horribly at and drilled those. Everyone I got wrong I would correct later and write why it was wrong. Those really helped me raise my LR score. I improved my LR score by 5ish points on PTs just from doing one section of those. I also went over those particular types of questions in my LR bible once or twice before I started the drilling.
I know Powerscore tells you not to read the question first, but I did and that also helped me improve. It helped me not have to look through the stimulus as much and I could pre-phrase an answer faster that way.




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