Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

hornedfrog
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby hornedfrog » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:14 pm

Powerscore and Testmasters hold classes in Tennessee. Why can they maintain the standard while TPR can't? Could it be because they pay real money instead of peanuts?

If TPR had the 98th percentile standard, they'd advertise it on their website, just like Powerscore and Testmasters. But they don't, so consumers have no guarantee that their instructor got an awesome LSAT score, or any LSAT score for that matter. In fact, no one really has any idea who the TPR instructors are. Their website only lists three instructors, one of whom is the guy that TPR sent through Testmasters.

tomwatts
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby tomwatts » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:19 pm

EarlCat: He's an obvious troll. Arguing facts with him is useless, because he doesn't care about facts. He cares about getting a reaction. The fact that he's wrong is irrelevant to him. Don't feed the troll by correcting him; it only makes it worse.

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Grond
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby Grond » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:20 pm

hornedfrog wrote:Powerscore and Testmasters hold classes in Tennessee. Why can they maintain the standard while TPR can't? Could it be because they pay real money instead of peanuts?

If TPR had the 98th percentile standard, they'd advertise it on their website, just like Powerscore and Testmasters. But they don't, so consumers have no guarantee that their instructor got an awesome LSAT score, or any LSAT score for that matter. In fact, no one really has any idea who the TPR instructors are. Their website only lists three instructors, one of whom is the guy that TPR sent through Testmasters.



To be fair, Powerscore has a 99th percentile standard.

hornedfrog
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby hornedfrog » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:40 pm

tomwatts wrote:EarlCat: He's an obvious troll. Arguing facts with him is useless, because he doesn't care about facts. He cares about getting a reaction. The fact that he's wrong is irrelevant to him. Don't feed the troll by correcting him; it only makes it worse.


It's funny how you accuse me of a being a troll, when you're the one who doesn't want to talk facts. You won't even answer my questions about your compensation because you don't want to admit that you, like all TPR instructors, don't get paid sh*t.

hornedfrog
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby hornedfrog » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:41 pm

Grond wrote:
hornedfrog wrote:Powerscore and Testmasters hold classes in Tennessee. Why can they maintain the standard while TPR can't? Could it be because they pay real money instead of peanuts?

If TPR had the 98th percentile standard, they'd advertise it on their website, just like Powerscore and Testmasters. But they don't, so consumers have no guarantee that their instructor got an awesome LSAT score, or any LSAT score for that matter. In fact, no one really has any idea who the TPR instructors are. Their website only lists three instructors, one of whom is the guy that TPR sent through Testmasters.



To be fair, Powerscore has a 99th percentile standard.


True. Sorry for the imprecision.

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Corsair
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby Corsair » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:49 pm

..

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EarlCat
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby EarlCat » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:53 pm

hornedfrog wrote:Powerscore and Testmasters hold classes in Tennessee. Why can they maintain the standard while TPR can't? Could it be because they pay real money instead of peanuts?


TM and PS are only two cities in TN: Memphis and Nashville. That doesn't help people in Chattanooga or Jackson or Clarksville very much, does it?

If TPR had the 98th percentile standard, they'd advertise it on their website, just like Powerscore and Testmasters. But they don't, so consumers have no guarantee that their instructor got an awesome LSAT score, or any LSAT score for that matter. In fact, no one really has any idea who the TPR instructors are. Their website only lists three instructors, one of whom is the guy that TPR sent through Testmasters.


So call the local office and find out who's teaching. It seems your criticism here is more about TPR's web site than their courses.

And yet again, you have completely failed to point to one single solitary curricular problem with TPR's courses. I doubt you've ever sat in on one of their classes, looked at their books, met anyone who writes them, or done anything that might have the slightest chance to justify your position. You and your 3-day old alt account stink of shill.

hornedfrog
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby hornedfrog » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:08 pm

Well, I've met Andrew Brody, for one. He's the guy who TPR sent through Testmasters to learn all of their techniques.

By your logic, all new posters would be shills. Once again, we have a TPR employee (albeit a former one) who gets angry when someone speaks negatively about TPR.

I get it, Earlcat, you taught for TPR and you're loyal to them. But that doesn't justify going ad hominem on me.

cubswin
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby cubswin » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:26 pm

hornedfrog wrote:Well, I've met Andrew Brody, for one. He's the guy who TPR sent through Testmasters to learn all of their techniques.

By your logic, all new posters would be shills. Once again, we have a TPR employee (albeit a former one) who gets angry when someone speaks negatively about TPR.

I get it, Earlcat, you taught for TPR and you're loyal to them. But that doesn't justify going ad hominem on me.


Not so. His argument was not solely based on your account's newness. He also said that the content of your posts indicated that you are quite possibly a shill. And while you could just passionately hate TPR for some reason, you must admit that having a new account where 13 of your 15 posts are devoted to trashing one company looks a bit shill-ish. On top of that, you seem to be throwing out every argument you can think of at TPR (many of them false or misleading) and hoping that one sticks.

hornedfrog
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby hornedfrog » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:29 pm

Another angry TPR employee. Looks like you guys are circlin' the wagons!

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EarlCat
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby EarlCat » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:35 pm

hornedfrog wrote:Well, I've met Andrew Brody, for one. He's the guy who TPR sent through Testmasters to learn all of their techniques.

Then you probably know that Brody, who scored a 180, was heavily involved in their curriculum, despite your baseless accusations of "second-rate and faceless" authors.

By your logic, all new posters would be shills.

No, I'm just highly skeptical of someone who registers a new account and immediately accuses a reg like tomwatts of getting paid to post. You also have apparently been involved in the industry (how's business?), so I doubt this is your first time ever posting on TLS.

Once again, we have a TPR employee (albeit a former one) who gets angry when someone speaks negatively about TPR.

No, I get angry when someone speaks negatively about TPR with nothing to back it up. As with every curriculum, there are things to criticize. I remember having a long argument with Trish McCloskey about some of them many moons ago. But I'll challenge you once again: Point out just one flaw in TPR's curriculum or admit that you're arguing from a position of ignorance.

hornedfrog wrote:Another angry TPR employee. Looks like you guys are circlin' the wagons!

Speaking of ad hominem...

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suspicious android
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby suspicious android » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:53 pm

If I may interject into this delightful conversation.. Is it still the case that TPR doesn't guarantee a 98th percentile score on a real test for every instructor for every LSAT course? That's the only criticism I've seen that seems to hold value.

tomwatts
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby tomwatts » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:24 pm

suspicious android wrote:Is it still the case that TPR doesn't guarantee a 98th percentile score on a real test for every instructor for every LSAT course?

That's true of the short course (28-hour Essentials), at least last I checked. The real course (84-hour Hyperlearning) does require the instructor to have a 98th percentile real score.

hornedfrog
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby hornedfrog » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:10 pm

Funny how they'll only guarantee the 98th percentile "requirement" on anonymous discussion boards.

Low pay rate + No guarantee of qualifications = Mediocre LSAT teachers for which no one in their right mind would fork over a grand.

And no, Earlcat, I've never seen TPR's materials. I've had no occasion to, since I didn't take the course and wouldn't want to teach it. But nobody raves about them like they do about the Powerscore bibles. And I've heard from multiple students here in Dallas that TPR's methods are inferior and unhelpful.

TPR's materials sucked for ages and then they apparently tried to "improve" them by ripping off some of Testmasters' techniques and inserting them into the materials. None of you TPR employee-trolls have denied that TPR sent their "course writer" Andrew Brody through the Testmasters course. It's so embarrassing.

The bottom line is that TPR's LSAT business is DYING. You guys used to be in second place in terms of student signups, but now you guys are begging for customers. I heard that in NorCal (where tomwatts teaches) TPR's classes are tiny, and the number of students taking their course is much smaller than Kaplan, Testmasters, Powerscore, and Blueprint. I've read posts where tomwatts whines about how Testmasters and Blueprint classes are so large. Their classes are larger because they're so much better.

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EarlCat
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby EarlCat » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:33 pm

hornedfrog wrote:Funny how they'll only guarantee the 98th percentile "requirement" on anonymous discussion boards.

You mean from people you've already said you believe actually work or worked for them?

And no, Earlcat, I've never seen TPR's materials.

Shocking, really.

And I've heard from multiple students here in Dallas that TPR's methods are inferior and unhelpful.

So your criticism is based on hearsay. Nice. I'll bet good money not a single one of these "multiple" students can justify their complaints. Why don't you invite them to this thread?

TPR's materials sucked for ages and then they apparently tried to "improve" them by ripping off some of Testmasters' techniques and inserting them into the materials. None of you TPR employee-trolls have denied that TPR sent their "course writer" Andrew Brody through the Testmasters course. It's so embarrassing.

I'll leave that between you and Andrew. Unlike you, I don't make ridiculous claims that I have no support for. How did you meet him, by the way?

The bottom line is that TPR's LSAT business is DYING. You guys used to be in second place in terms of student signups, but now you guys are begging for customers. I heard that in NorCal (where tomwatts teaches) TPR's classes are tiny, and the number of students taking their course is much smaller than Kaplan, Testmasters, Powerscore, and Blueprint. I've read posts where tomwatts whines about how Testmasters and Blueprint classes are so large. Their classes are larger because they're so much better.

I can't comment on the financial situation of the company, or the enrollment numbers for LSAT classes in Northern California. I don't work for them and I don't hold stock in them. I do know that TM had difficulty paying some of it's bills quite recently and got sued for it. By your silly logic, they must be inferior too.

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EarlCat
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby EarlCat » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:41 pm

ITT

hornedfrog: TPR's methods SUCK!
me: Name one problem with them.
hornedfrog:
--ImageRemoved--

hornedfrog
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby hornedfrog » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:06 pm

Don't get your illustration. Please edify me.

You call it hearsay. I call it word of mouth. And TPR's is NOT GOOD.

Your argument assumes that no one can comment on the quality of TPR's course unless they've taken it. That's such a weak assumption. I've never stayed at a Motel 6. But I'm confident that it sucks.

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Jeffort
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby Jeffort » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:53 pm

hornedfrog wrote:Don't get your illustration. Please edify me.

You call it hearsay. I call it word of mouth. And TPR's is NOT GOOD.

Your argument assumes that no one can comment on the quality of TPR's course unless they've taken it. That's such a weak assumption. I've never stayed at a Motel 6. But I'm confident that it sucks.


This:

Image

BTW, it's a cricket, in reference to your lack of providing a logical response to substantive questions RE: the basis of your really adamant opinion. Get it? Here is a better drawing:

Image

HTH

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JazzOne
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:14 am

EarlCat wrote:
Hyperlearning was an MCAT company that TPR acquired in the mid-1990s. I can't see how its acquisition triggered a magical improvement in TPR's course materials almost a decade later.

I said when, not because. But I was under the impression the takeover was around '04. Perhaps I was mistaken. The LSAT Hyperlearning course (i.e. the new curriculum) didn't start until around then.

Quasi-TPR employee here. The only thing I care to add to this discussion is that Hyperlearning was indeed an MCAT prep company. When the takeover occurred, some of the Hyperlearning execs stayed with TPR, and the rumor is that at least one of them was not happy when TPR applied the Hyperlearning label to its LSAT materials. The whole methodology of Hyperlearning was having a separate expert instructor for each section of the MCAT. I think the '90s is a more accurate estimate of the time frame.

tomwatts
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby tomwatts » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:58 am

Sigh. At the risk of feeding the troll further...

Hyperlearning was acquired circa 1997. There were a variety of things that made its course for the MCAT unique, but the basic philosophy (run the most rigorous and intense course possible, intended for gunners — which I'd never heard used as a pejorative term until I came here — and the most intense test-takers, provide lots of material with expert instructors) was very different from the original Princeton Review SAT philosophy (have a short, fun course with a dynamic instructor who showed a few neat tricks to help with the exam). The original PR philosophy was great for high school, but it never caught on well in grad, because people wanted the sort of thing that Hyperlearning was going for. So we took that philosophy and figured out how to apply it to LSAT, too — the first set of Hyperlearning LSAT courses ran in 2003, I believe. The course was retooled again — to be even more intense and more rigorous — in 2007, and that's more or less the course that we run today.

So how did acquiring an MCAT company help our LSAT program? Well, it showed us what college students actually want. And we responded, not only in MCAT, but also in LSAT, because frankly, LSAT students want the same thing. Does it matter what our course looked like in the '90s? I don't think so. I don't think students want to know who had the best course in 1996. (PS and BP had better hope not, because they didn't even exist then.) I think students want to know who has a good course now, and we most assuredly do.

But I point this out only because even a lot of us (Princeton Review teachers, current and former) don't seem to know this. Arguing facts with a troll is like, um, arguing facts with someone who doesn't care about facts. It doesn't slow horned frog down to know that he's wrong. Trolling is fundamentally both masturbatory and exhibitionist, and the more you point at someone whose pants are down and say, "Ewww, gross!", the more he gets off on it. So please, let it die without further comment.
Last edited by tomwatts on Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

hornedfrog
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby hornedfrog » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:00 am

So I was right and Earlcat was wrong about Hyperlearning. Thanks for clearing that up for him.

If TPR most assuredly has a good course, why are so few people signing up?

Also, why don't you just come clean and disclose your compensation?

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EarlCat
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Re: Anyone tutor for the Princeton Review?

Postby EarlCat » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:38 am

hornedfrog wrote:So I was right and Earlcat was wrong about Hyperlearning. Thanks for clearing that up for him.

Yeah I got the date wrong. High five.

If TPR most assuredly has a good course, why are so few people signing up?

Do tell us, what were TPR's enrollment numbers last year? I haven't seen the official governmental report on LSAT signups. Do you have data to back up this claim, or are you just talking out of your butt again?

Also, why don't you just come clean and disclose your compensation?

Why don't you start by disclosing who you work for?




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