Retake?

Should I retake the LSAT?

Yes, study more and apply after the October LSAT (next cycle)
9
38%
No, apply as early as possible with the 168 (next cycle)
15
63%
 
Total votes: 24

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Ialdabaoth
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Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:18 am

Well, I can't decide if I should retake the LSAT. Anybody want to help me decide?

I'm applying next cycle. I took the LSAT for the first time in December 2010 and scored a 168. I took an online prep class that began in July and ran until October, and I did additional prep work up until the test date.

My highest PTs (3) were 164, and a couple of these were inadequately timed/interrupted/etc. I took a total of 9 tests including my diagnostic. My PT average (not including diagnostic or second PT--154 and 155 respectively) was 161.7. Obviously, I was very excited when I received my actual score. I also completed all of the required homework assignments for the prep class and many of the extra assignments. As I mentioned in the December waiting thread, I'm absolutely terrible at logic games (even after the prep work), and went -1 RC, -3 LR (total), and -13 LG (which is, admittedly even worse--by about ~3 questions--than I had been averaging on PTs). I had been getting about -3 to -5 on most RC and about -7 to -9 (total) on most LR. These aren't exact, but I think they're decently accurate estimates.

Given this information I would certainly retake if it weren't for my timing *scheduling* issues. I'm studying abroad for the spring semester and won't be able to retake the LSAT until October, pushing back my application dates. I'll also have a busy fall semester with full-time classes, writing a thesis, working part-time, applying to LS, etc.

Berkeley has been my number one choice for awhile, but now I'm also beginning to be more interested in Stanford. I will have a ~4.0 (mid to high 3.9s) LSDAS GPA, 4.0 UGPA, and decent softs including a demonstrated interest in public interest environmental law. So, should I study more and retake the LSAT, or get all of my applications in as early as possible?

Sorry this ended up being so long, and thank you so much for your opinions and advice!

EDIT: I took PT 48-50, 54 and 55, and 57-60. Also, edited for clarity.
Last edited by Ialdabaoth on Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

SupraVln180
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Re: Retake?

Postby SupraVln180 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:06 am

Basically, an act of God gave you that score in December, take it and run with it. If you are not a Christian, I would convert now, b/c you owe it to God for how you made out after December. You have a 4.0/168. You should be have a solid shot at everything outside of HYS. Congrats and I hate you.

hijodehombre
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Re: Retake?

Postby hijodehombre » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:16 am

ITT: OP alienates himself.

Seriously though, that's pretty awesome. I wouldn't retake, but I think that largely depends on where you ultimately want to go more than whether you outperformed your average.

2011Law
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Re: Retake?

Postby 2011Law » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:19 am

Which 9 PTs did you do?

That you got 4 points above your highest PT is definitely crazy, but if you're applying next cycle then you have nothing to lose (beside time) by going for the June exam. If you decide to go for June, then take it seriously, go through all the bibles if you haven't already, and do the 30 or 40 most recent PTs.

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invisiblesun
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Re: Retake?

Postby invisiblesun » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:26 am

SupraVln180 wrote:Basically, an act of God gave you that score in December, take it and run with it. If you are not a Christian, I would convert now, b/c you owe it to God for how you made out after December. You have a 4.0/168. You should be have a solid shot at everything outside of HYSCCN. Congrats and I hate you.


Now that I FTFY, +1

OP, with a PT high of 164 what makes you sure you could improve significantly, even if your problem is just "timing"? If you can get your PTs into the mid 170s, I would retake because a 4.0/~173 opens many more doors than a 168.

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:36 am

SupraVln180 wrote: You should be have a solid shot at everything outside of HYS. Congrats and I hate you.


Thanks, I guess? haha

But seriously that's the kind of opinion/advice I'm looking for. I basically just don't know if retaking is worth the time and postponing my applications next year.

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:39 am

hijodehombre wrote:I wouldn't retake, but I think that largely depends on where you ultimately want to go more than whether you outperformed your average.


Thanks, hijodehombre, and that's a good point. If over the next few months I decide I'm more interested in Stanford, then I will more seriously consider retaking in October.

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:46 am

2011Law wrote:Which 9 PTs did you do?

That you got 4 points above your highest PT is definitely crazy, but if you're applying next cycle then you have nothing to lose (beside time) by going for the June exam. If you decide to go for June, then take it seriously, go through all the bibles if you haven't already, and do the 30 or 40 most recent PTs.


I took PT 48-50, 54 and 55, and 57-60. I also added this info to the original post. I can't take the June exam though because I'll still be out of the country. That's what I meant by "timing" issues in the OP. I corrected that now, so it's not as ambiguous. And I realize it's possible to take the LSAT in other countries, but the June exam is also going to be during my semester exams, and I would have to travel about 4 hours from where I'll be to take it.

Since I can't reasonably take it in June, that's why I phrased the poll the way I did: either I apply as early as possible with the 168 or wait until October 2011 during my application cycle. I'm just afraid of getting a lower score more than anything, so thanks for your study advice!

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vertex
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Re: Retake?

Postby vertex » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:48 am

I think this is one instance I'd say don't retake. 4.0/168 is solid.

ED to UVa though.

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:55 am

invisiblesun wrote:
SupraVln180 wrote:Basically, an act of God gave you that score in December, take it and run with it. If you are not a Christian, I would convert now, b/c you owe it to God for how you made out after December. You have a 4.0/168. You should be have a solid shot at everything outside of HYSCCN. Congrats and I hate you.


Now that I FTFY, +1

OP, with a PT high of 164 what makes you sure you could improve significantly, even if your problem is just "timing"? If you can get your PTs into the mid 170s, I would retake because a 4.0/~173 opens many more doors than a 168.


Haha, thanks for the "editing." I don't really think I have much of a shot at CCN with my numbers and background either, but, for the most part, that's okay with me.

I'm definitely not sure I could improve significantly--scoring worse is actually my biggest concern out of all of this. I corrected the original post because I didn't mean "timing" issues in taking the LSAT. I meant timing/scheduling issues with being available to sit for the exam again.

Thanks for your suggestion!

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:08 am

vertex wrote:I think this is one instance I'd say don't retake. 4.0/168 is solid.

ED to UVa though.


Thanks!

I've thought about UVa ED, but I'm worried about the possible debt that might entail coupled with what (from the limited amount of research I've done) seems to be a less-than-stellar LRAP, especially compared to Berkeley (my first choice school). Do you have any connection to UVa or have any details about the LRAP?

EDIT: I think I was looking at some old info when I formed my opinion of UVa's LRAP--just looked it up again, and it seems better than I remembered.

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:39 pm

Anybody else like to vote? I'd really appreciate the feedback!

SrLaw
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Re: Retake?

Postby SrLaw » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm

SupraVln180 wrote:Basically, an act of God gave you that score in December, take it and run with it. If you are not a Christian, I would convert now, b/c you owe it to God for how you made out after December. You have a 4.0/168. You should be have a solid shot at everything outside of HYS. Congrats and I hate you.



+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000


The fact that you are asking this after reading your post makes me think that you are unworthy of the 168.

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northwood
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Re: Retake?

Postby northwood » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:08 pm

Keep the score and enjoy.

You took a prep class, scored significantly higher on the LSAT than your pt average. You took the most recent prep tests. The only way I would say yes go retake, is if your pt average between now and June rises to the mid 170's on a consistent basis. This is unlikely, unless you devote a lot of time to prep. WIth your grades and lsat, you should get into a lot of schools, and be offered some serious money. Do you reallly want to spend a lot of time and energy on prep?( if you do, go do it, if not, dont).

I would recommend that you get your letters of recommendation completed, start doing your research on schools, and start getting your personal statement, and additional ( why X essays) essays started. Submit your applications on day one of the cycle, plan school visits in the fall, and watch the acceptances and scholarship offers roll in.

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:13 pm

SrLaw wrote:
SupraVln180 wrote:Basically, an act of God gave you that score in December, take it and run with it. If you are not a Christian, I would convert now, b/c you owe it to God for how you made out after December. You have a 4.0/168. You should be have a solid shot at everything outside of HYS. Congrats and I hate you.



+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000


The fact that you are asking this after reading your post makes me think that you are unworthy of the 168.


I know you might just be kidding, and I understand if you think I shouldn't retake, but what makes you think I'm "unworthy" of that score? I'm not trying to be an ass, but I have seen people post that they scored seven points higher than their PTs so my four points higher isn't ridiculous. I also think I tend to test better under pressure because I had a somewhat similar experience with the SAT in high school. Thanks for your feedback and poll vote!

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:30 pm

northwood wrote:Keep the score and enjoy.

You took a prep class, scored significantly higher on the LSAT than your pt average. You took the most recent prep tests. The only way I would say yes go retake, is if your pt average between now and June rises to the mid 170's on a consistent basis. This is unlikely, unless you devote a lot of time to prep. WIth your grades and lsat, you should get into a lot of schools, and be offered some serious money. Do you reallly want to spend a lot of time and energy on prep?( if you do, go do it, if not, dont).

I would recommend that you get your letters of recommendation completed, start doing your research on schools, and start getting your personal statement, and additional ( why X essays) essays started. Submit your applications on day one of the cycle, plan school visits in the fall, and watch the acceptances and scholarship offers roll in.


Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement, northwood! I'm definitely leaning this route and hoping super early applications and my GPA will help make up for my sub-170 LSAT for some of the T14. Best of luck to you!

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casper13
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Re: Retake?

Postby casper13 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:58 am

Uh you got below a 170 and you posted this question here, do you even need all the answers on this page when it is obvious that everyone here will say to retake and ED to UVA.

With your GPA and score you have a good shot a Boalt.

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glewz
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Re: Retake?

Postby glewz » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:05 am

SupraVln180 wrote:Basically, an act of God gave you that score in December, take it and run with it. If you are not a Christian, I would convert now, b/c you owe it to God for how you made out after December. You have a 4.0/168. You should be have a solid shot at everything outside of HYSCCN. Congrats and I hate you.


TITCR. Do not retake..lol

or at least apply first and then take the Oct test.

SrLaw
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Re: Retake?

Postby SrLaw » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:19 am

Ialdabaoth wrote:
SrLaw wrote:
SupraVln180 wrote:Basically, an act of God gave you that score in December, take it and run with it. If you are not a Christian, I would convert now, b/c you owe it to God for how you made out after December. You have a 4.0/168. You should be have a solid shot at everything outside of HYS. Congrats and I hate you.



+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000


The fact that you are asking this after reading your post makes me think that you are unworthy of the 168.


I know you might just be kidding, and I understand if you think I shouldn't retake, but what makes you think I'm "unworthy" of that score? I'm not trying to be an ass, but I have seen people post that they scored seven points higher than their PTs so my four points higher isn't ridiculous. I also think I tend to test better under pressure because I had a somewhat similar experience with the SAT in high school. Thanks for your feedback and poll vote!




Not kidding. You got VERY lucky. Take the 168 and pray to God everynight that you were so lucky to receive that score. That is unless you plan on prepping for 3-4 months before your next test.

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:32 am

casper13 wrote:Uh you got below a 170 and you posted this question here, do you even need all the answers on this page when it is obvious that everyone here will say to retake and ED to UVA.

With your GPA and score you have a good shot a Boalt.


Actually, twice as many people have voted to apply as early as possible with the 168. I think my circumstances--scoring four points higher than my highest PT and not being able to retake until October, which would delay my applications--have made more people than normal say not to retake.

Thanks for the encouragement on Berk!

dabears1
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Re: Retake?

Postby dabears1 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:39 am

Ialdabaoth wrote:Well, I can't decide if I should retake the LSAT. Anybody want to help me decide?

I'm applying next cycle. I took the LSAT for the first time in December 2010 and scored a 168. I took an online prep class that began in July and ran until October, and I did additional prep work up until the test date.

My highest PTs (3) were 164, and a couple of these were inadequately timed/interrupted/etc. I took a total of 9 tests including my diagnostic. My PT average (not including diagnostic or second PT--154 and 155 respectively) was 161.7. Obviously, I was very excited when I received my actual score. I also completed all of the required homework assignments for the prep class and many of the extra assignments. As I mentioned in the December waiting thread, I'm absolutely terrible at logic games (even after the prep work), and went -1 RC, -3 LR (total), and -13 LG (which is, admittedly even worse--by about ~3 questions--than I had been averaging on PTs). I had been getting about -3 to -5 on most RC and about -7 to -9 (total) on most LR. These aren't exact, but I think they're decently accurate estimates.

Given this information I would certainly retake if it weren't for my timing *scheduling* issues. I'm studying abroad for the spring semester and won't be able to retake the LSAT until October, pushing back my application dates. I'll also have a busy fall semester with full-time classes, writing a thesis, working part-time, applying to LS, etc.

Berkeley has been my number one choice for awhile, but now I'm also beginning to be more interested in Stanford. I will have a ~4.0 (mid to high 3.9s) LSDAS GPA, 4.0 UGPA, and decent softs including a demonstrated interest in public interest environmental law. So, should I study more and retake the LSAT, or get all of my applications in as early as possible?

Sorry this ended up being so long, and thank you so much for your opinions and advice!

EDIT: I took PT 48-50, 54 and 55, and 57-60. Also, edited for clarity.


I can't imagine that anyone who has invested so much into maintaining a near perfect GPA would be satisfied with a 168 LSAT. I think you'll regret not putting forth similar effort towards a higher LSAT which could get you to Berkeley, or Stanford. Retake. Retake.

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casper13
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Re: Retake?

Postby casper13 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:42 am

Ialdabaoth wrote:
casper13 wrote:Uh you got below a 170 and you posted this question here, do you even need all the answers on this page when it is obvious that everyone here will say to retake and ED to UVA.

With your GPA and score you have a good shot a Boalt.


Actually, twice as many people have voted to apply as early as possible with the 168. I think my circumstances--scoring four points higher than my highest PT and not being able to retake until October, which would delay my applications--have made more people than normal say not to retake.

Thanks for the encouragement on Berk!



Oh dont get me wrong I am totally for taking that score and applying as early as possible. I was more being sarcastic TLS style about the retake. And yes Berk would be a good app to send out as you are at Median for LSAT for them and if you finish up with that 4.0 or pretty damn close you should be at or above 75% for GPA for Berk

As for the Palo Alto deal that may bbe a tougher egg to crack. GPA is there but LSAT is a hair above 25%, so pending awesome PS and other good stuff it is a little bit of a long shot IMHO. Good luck.

Cali person?

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Retake?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:16 pm

casper13 wrote:
Ialdabaoth wrote:
casper13 wrote:Uh you got below a 170 and you posted this question here, do you even need all the answers on this page when it is obvious that everyone here will say to retake and ED to UVA.

With your GPA and score you have a good shot a Boalt.


Actually, twice as many people have voted to apply as early as possible with the 168. I think my circumstances--scoring four points higher than my highest PT and not being able to retake until October, which would delay my applications--have made more people than normal say not to retake.

Thanks for the encouragement on Berk!



Oh dont get me wrong I am totally for taking that score and applying as early as possible. I was more being sarcastic TLS style about the retake. And yes Berk would be a good app to send out as you are at Median for LSAT for them and if you finish up with that 4.0 or pretty damn close you should be at or above 75% for GPA for Berk

As for the Palo Alto deal that may bbe a tougher egg to crack. GPA is there but LSAT is a hair above 25%, so pending awesome PS and other good stuff it is a little bit of a long shot IMHO. Good luck.

Cali person?


Haha, gotcha--my bad on not catching the sarcasm. And yeah, I've been pretty surprised that everyone didn't just say retake. I'm actually from the Southeast, but I would love to spend three years (and possibly more) in California. Also, Berkeley and Stanford both have top-notch environmental law programs, which is a big draw for me. I am also interested in some East Coast schools though and have considered EDing to UVa, NYU, or GWU (for a shot at their ED full ride). (Don't really know where exactly I want to live and work long-term.) I was surprised to see some people with my numbers getting in to UVa and NYU ED.

Thanks for your help, and best of luck to you as well!




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