Recent LG - suspend/replace questions

petthemidget
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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:50 am

Recent LG - suspend/replace questions

Postby petthemidget » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:26 pm

I've noticed on the most recent LSATs a lot of games end with this type of question. Any insight from the LSAT slayers on here on how to approach these?

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Chimica
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 3:30 pm

Re: Recent LG - suspend/replace questions

Postby Chimica » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:18 pm

Short answer: Only answer these if you have enough time. These are brutal questions and I found they could take 2-4 minutes. Go on to the next set. You can answer several other questions in the times burned up in that one.


Long answer: If you are aiming for -1/0 in logic games, the above advice doesn't work as you need to answer all the questions and going back to a question burns a lot of time, as you need to relearn the rules etc...

Um..Become really good at logic games? I wish I had more specific advice, but when I got fast at LG, I could do those as well.

dakatz
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Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:19 pm

Re: Recent LG - suspend/replace questions

Postby dakatz » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:22 pm

The key to answering any logic game question is the time factor. Even if you aren't a master on games, you can logically work out the harder questions if you have an extra minute or 2 to do so. I started off very poor on logic games, but worked my way up to consistent -0 sections. The way I did it was to become VERY good at the easy questions such that I could knock them off in a matter of seconds. Learn all the time-saving methods you can on easy ones. Just by virtue of having this additional time, you will find yourself getting the harder questions right on a more consistent basis.

clarsen
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Recent LG - suspend/replace questions

Postby clarsen » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:20 pm

Chimica wrote:Short answer: Only answer these if you have enough time. These are brutal questions and I found they could take 2-4 minutes. Go on to the next set. You can answer several other questions in the times burned up in that one.


Long answer: If you are aiming for -1/0 in logic games, the above advice doesn't work as you need to answer all the questions and going back to a question burns a lot of time, as you need to relearn the rules etc...

Um..Become really good at logic games? I wish I had more specific advice, but when I got fast at LG, I could do those as well.


+1

Skip them and head back if/when you have time. I've found that it will appear there is an obvious answer, but when you work it out, the obvious answer is usually incorrect. These take time, and it's not worth missing a couple at the end because you ran out of time on one hard question. On the December test this type of question came up in my experimental section. Fortunately, I had plenty of time to go back and work out the answer.

I think the best advice is to get faster at everything else so you have the time to work through these at the end.

youknowryan
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:20 am

Re: Recent LG - suspend/replace questions

Postby youknowryan » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:36 pm

I do not agree with the skip them advice. Give yourself 1-2 minutes and jam out hypos- treat them like any other question.

I've been figuring these out and actually they're not too bad. The trick is simply to look for the following:

#1. The replacement rule allows something that was NOT allowed by the original rules.

#2. The replacement rule prevents something that WAS allowed by the original rules.

All of the wrong answers will either be one or the other.

Ex:
Say a rule says A and B cannot go together, but it is suspended. The wrong answers will either let A and B go together OR prevent other variables from functioning as the rules should have allowed before the suspension. What I mean in the latter case is the replacement will keep A and B apart, but now A (or some other seemingly unconnected variable) is limited to a slot that before it would not have been limited to.

The take away: I find it easier to disprove the wrong answers in most cases then anything else.

tomwatts
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:01 am

Re: Recent LG - suspend/replace questions

Postby tomwatts » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:53 pm

Okay, it's possible to do these with a whole bunch of testing of answers, as per the previous post, but in most cases, that's pretty slow. There are two things that I've noticed these question types going after: equivalent related elements and negative/positive reversals.

If you have something like "H must appear before J" and "J and K must be consecutive," then J and K are equivalent elements (assuming that there are no other rules about either one) that have been linked by that second rule. In that case, if you're asked to replace the first rule, you're looking for "H must appear before K," because K is J's equivalent. This sort of thing has come up a couple of times (including Feb. 2010).

If you have something like "H can't be in 1, 2, or 3" and there are only spaces numbered up to 6 in the diagram, your replacement will say something like, "H can only be in 4, 5, or 6." It's the same rule, phrased positively instead of negatively (or they could do it the other way around, phrasing something negatively that was originally phrased positively). This has come up at least once, too.

Personally, I'd start with these two things. Then, as a last resort, I'd start testing answers to see if I can come up with either something that is allowed by the new rule that wasn't allowed by the old one or vice-versa.

Manhattan LSAT Noah
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:43 am

Re: Recent LG - suspend/replace questions

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:06 pm

Some good ideas above. The way I worked on them was to write some rule replacement questions for old games. It turns out that some games types "accept" this question more easily than others (it works more easily with ordering and grouping games, not as easy for assignment, but definitely possible).

I went overboard with this theme on the last question of the game I wrote a couple of weeks ago (http://www.manhattanlsat.com/logic-games-practice.cfm). Overall, I don't think these are necessarily hard questions, but, and it's a big but, if you get how the pieces of the game relate. If you're just plugging away with trial and error on a lot of questions, the general structure of the game may escape you.

Bernie
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:15 pm

Re: Recent LG - suspend/replace questions

Postby Bernie » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:58 pm

youknowryan wrote:
#2. The replacement rule prevents something that WAS allowed by the original rules.



Perfectly put, youknowryan. The only thing I'd add is that based on #2, you can use previous scenarios to eliminate answers. In other words, if the new rule conflicts with anything that happened in previous scenarios, it is an incorrect answer.

I like to use my previous work to eliminate a few answers very quickly. In most of the examples to date, previous work eliminates 2 or 3 answers easily.




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