June 2011 Study Group

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Ginj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Ginj » Tue May 17, 2011 3:17 pm

Yes. Please tell us more about this free Princeton Review thing...as I may be considering attending the same thing this Saturday...

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Ssushi
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Ssushi » Tue May 17, 2011 3:36 pm

jim-green wrote:
Ssushi wrote:Seriously? Well my diagnostic is a 165 and i took it at a free princeton review thing, so it seems i've basically made no progress. I'm not sure how I could study for a month and not make any gains. I'm hoping to bump up a few points on the actual test, since I miss many questions because i just don't focus and on the real test i don't see that being a problem.
Yes, seriously. Do they do a 5-section test at the princeton review with an exp section in the 1st 3? If not, your 165 diag may not be a true diag. It seems high to me since I got a 155 under true conditions. I know there are folks who diag at 170, but not the general case. Are u saing that your diag is 165 and after a month, it's still 165? then, the study method is not right. Overall, 1 month is not enough.


Yea it was a 5 section test. June 2007 with one experimental that was the second section (LG) and it was timed pretty strictly. I've never scored below 165, i got 166 on my second test which i did myself but was timed and 5 sections, and from then on Ive pretty much gotten 168's. I think it took me a week in which i didn't prep at all to get to 168, and since then I've worked through both bibles and the Manhattan RC and I'm still at 168. I know a month isnt a long time but if i can't scoop 5 points in a month of serious prep then I'm going to be pretty pissed off.

I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong.
Last edited by Ssushi on Tue May 17, 2011 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ssushi
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Ssushi » Tue May 17, 2011 3:41 pm

maxpower430 wrote:
Ssushi wrote:
jim-green wrote:Your PT avg is about 3 above your actual LSAT score as a rule. This is to account for the ease of taking at home and for the 5-6 questions you're familiar with from study. The actual LSAT will have 100% new material.
And Eich, you got it, I'll make sure to put in all As. Your PT54 will be higher than PT53 by a point or two at least.
Ssushi wrote:I'm hoping so. 171 is my second best score yet, i think i have about a 168 average. I did discover some stuff while reviewing PT52 so I think that's what made the difference. I'm just starting PT54 now, so if i manage to at least keep up this 171 for a few PT's i will be very pleased.


Seriously? Well my diagnostic is a 165 and i took it at a free princeton review thing, so it seems i've basically made no progress. I'm not sure how I could study for a month and not make any gains. I'm hoping to bump up a few points on the actual test, since I miss many questions because i just don't focus and on the real test i don't see that being a problem.


I've actually read on here that even if you are sufficiently prepped, you can see a 5 point drop from your pt average. that being said, there are plenty of stories on tls where people outperformed their average by several points. i just think it depends on the person and the test you get. my way of looking at is most people here are at least familiar with tough logic games and reading comp passages, which i think can let you get psyched out by them, whereas that can't happen on the real thing. also, some people may be better performers when something is on the line vs just wanting to increase your raw score/not wanting to share a bad score on tls haha. tbh though, i think the biggest thing is just to be as prepped as possible and be able to walk in there confidently. a quote i saw on lsatblog that i think is great is basically "the actual test seems intimidating, but really it is no different from all the other practice tests you've taken at home". and that came from a guy who outperformed his average (171 to a 177), so i wouldn't let the potential score drop worry you too much.


That's the thing, I'm not really worried. I almost always outperform myself on tests and I'm really just shooting for 170+. Most of the tests I take i miss at least 3-4 questions because I misbubble, or i don't read where the question says EXCEPT in all capital letters. I figure i wont make those same mistakes on the test because I will be much more focused, but if people go DOWN by 3 to 5 points then it seems much less prudent for me to bank on a 2 -3 point increase on test day.

jim-green
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby jim-green » Tue May 17, 2011 3:54 pm

The 1st month of prep, I went up 10 points. Then it took another 2 months to go up 5 points. A 1-hr session with a Atlas tutor really helped me. Don't count on any increase on test day. It happens but very rarely. Plus, you can be sick. I was sick on test day (I don't mean sick like killing coeds with a chainsaw or torturing kittens, I mean sick as in ill). It cost me 3 points at least.
Ssushi wrote:Yea it was a 5 section test. June 2007 with one experimental that was the second section (LG) and it was timed pretty strictly. I've never scored below 165, i got 166 on my second test which i did myself but was timed and 5 sections, and from then on Ive pretty much gotten 168's. I think it took me a week in which i didn't prep at all to get to 168, and since then I've worked through both bibles and the Manhattan RC and I'm still at 168. I know a month isnt a long time but if i can't scoop 5 points in a month of serious prep then I'm going to be pretty pissed off. I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong.

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coldshoulder
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby coldshoulder » Tue May 17, 2011 4:24 pm

soj wrote:Coldshoulder is pretty much a lock for a great score. Just look at his recent scores. I'm pretty confident I can do well in LG, at least decently in LR, but RC is just such a wild card for me. I know I've been doing well recently, but I've just proved I can also do quite poorly.


Haha I sure hope so, I'm pretty damn worried though. RC is also kind of my wild card, I can go anywhere from -1 to -4 on a test and feel no different before scoring. LR still isn't solid enough to be counted on, and I worry I'll get thrown one LG I don't understand and it'll destroy my chances. Need to do more tests...at 50 today, need to get to 62 before test day.

maxpower430
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby maxpower430 » Tue May 17, 2011 4:35 pm

yea i def wouldn't count on scoring above your average, nor would i count on not misbubbling. that being said, there are so many factors to a successful or unsuccessful test day that i wouldn't count on it going up or down, esp since there are so many things that are out of your control (i.e. bad proctor, construction going on outside, car breaking down, etc). personally i just want to walk in confident that i did as much as could be expected and ready for w/e lsac throws at me.

oh also, i plan on claiming that trophy tomorrow night, jim-green, hopefully will be feeling good after my pt 50/51 review sesh tonight haha

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MarineLaw
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby MarineLaw » Tue May 17, 2011 4:43 pm

Has anyone had LSAT dreams/nightmares?

Last night I woke up three hours after going to sleep only to realize how tired my brain was. I was still sorting through logic games... Probably because I blew it on PT 51 LG section. After review, I thought it was SO easy, I couldn't believe it, and my brain wouldn't forgive the lack of concentration. It was my 7th section though (ast the 4th section of a 5 section test with 2 section warm up).

About a week ago I had a dream I was sitting in a giant lecture hall, taking the test, and NOTHING that I had studied was on the test. It was all spatial pattern recognition (like an IQ test) and I panicked thinking that I hadn't even looked at anything like that. Then my sister showed up (in med school), took the test on a whim and smoked it.

Ah LSAT nightmares...

theaether
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby theaether » Tue May 17, 2011 5:04 pm

MarineLaw wrote:Has anyone had LSAT dreams/nightmares?

Last night I woke up three hours after going to sleep only to realize how tired my brain was. I was still sorting through logic games... Probably because I blew it on PT 51 LG section. After review, I thought it was SO easy, I couldn't believe it, and my brain wouldn't forgive the lack of concentration. It was my 7th section though (ast the 4th section of a 5 section test with 2 section warm up).

About a week ago I had a dream I was sitting in a giant lecture hall, taking the test, and NOTHING that I had studied was on the test. It was all spatial pattern recognition (like an IQ test) and I panicked thinking that I hadn't even looked at anything like that. Then my sister showed up (in med school), took the test on a whim and smoked it.

Ah LSAT nightmares...


YEP couldn't sleep last night, then ended up dreaming that I took the real LSAT and had to decide whether to cancel and then had to endure the horror of studying for the OCT administration. omfg.

just took PT39 with 23.3 (LR) today
LG: 0
LRe: -3
LR1: -2
RC: -6
LR2: -1
92/101-->173

jesus christ i thought that RC was fairly hard. hansel/gretel then the wave radiation was so time consuming, and had to do the last passage on internet copyright, which i thought was the easiest, in <5 minutes so lost a ton of easy points there. RC, what happened to you? :(

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coldshoulder
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby coldshoulder » Tue May 17, 2011 5:33 pm

Last section on RC PT 50, science about basin of attraction, possibly the toughest I've ever seen. Partially because the questions are poorly written and used the key word chaos interchangeably with the other key word even though they have distinct meanings.
Fuck that shit.

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Tue May 17, 2011 5:35 pm

coldshoulder wrote:Last section on RC PT 50, science about basin of attraction, possibly the toughest I've ever seen. Partially because the questions are poorly written and used the key word chaos interchangeably with the other key word even though they have distinct meanings.
Fuck that shit.

I'm not exactly the RC authority with the -3 in groupthink just yesterday, but IIRC the passage is actually not using chaos and that other term synonymously. I agree it's a tough passage, though.

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coldshoulder
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby coldshoulder » Tue May 17, 2011 5:37 pm

Damn science sections are always the ones that nail me. Maybe partially because they're generally third or fourth.

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Strange
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Strange » Tue May 17, 2011 5:49 pm

Those of you who may retake in Oct if you don't get the score you want, are you saving some fresh PT's just in case or are you going all in? I've got about 14-15 left and I was gonna do half and save the rest, but I'm wondering if I should just try to burn through them all

jim-green
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby jim-green » Tue May 17, 2011 6:01 pm

Oh man, no one replied to this in a general thread so posting here becuase it kinda answers Strange's question.
I thought I was doing well on LG redo when I repeated old games. But yesterday, I borrowed the book LSAT for Dummies by Amy Blackwell from the library. The book has actual LSAT games with the variables and settings changed. E.g., birds in a forest changed to kids at a party. The games are bloody difficult! I could not finish even 1 section!
So it may be that while doing well on LG section redo, I am subconsciously remembering too much. In reality, I may not have improved on LGs at all.
Any thoughts? has anyone read this book and tried the LGs? Could it be that the language of the stimulus is harder than LSAT scenarios?
This looks like a good way to test your actual level of ability on a *new* LG section.
So you can use these in case u have no new PTs to do. Doing them was like doing brand new games becuase they even changed the orientation of the stacks.

theaether
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby theaether » Tue May 17, 2011 6:14 pm

jim-green wrote:Oh man, no one replied to this in a general thread so posting here becuase it kinda answers Strange's question.
I thought I was doing well on LG redo when I repeated old games. But yesterday, I borrowed the book LSAT for Dummies by Amy Blackwell from the library. The book has actual LSAT games with the variables and settings changed. E.g., birds in a forest changed to kids at a party. The games are bloody difficult! I could not finish even 1 section!
So it may be that while doing well on LG section redo, I am subconsciously remembering too much. In reality, I may not have improved on LGs at all.
Any thoughts? has anyone read this book and tried the LGs? Could it be that the language of the stimulus is harder than LSAT scenarios?
This looks like a good way to test your actual level of ability on a *new* LG section.
So you can use these in case u have no new PTs to do. Doing them was like doing brand new games becuase they even changed the orientation of the stacks.


If it's just the variables that are changed, it should still be easy if you remember subconsciously a lot of the inferences. But as you said, the settings are changed too, so I'm assuming the rules and conditions are all changed around. Well then, it's not the LSAT anymore and that's why you're finding it hard. you've been training in the LSAT logic games way for so long that you're used to it by now, and different logic games, although they may still be called logic games, just aren't testing the same exact things.

theaether
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby theaether » Tue May 17, 2011 6:17 pm

Strange wrote:Those of you who may retake in Oct if you don't get the score you want, are you saving some fresh PT's just in case or are you going all in? I've got about 14-15 left and I was gonna do half and save the rest, but I'm wondering if I should just try to burn through them all


i'm burning through them all except for a couple between PT12-PT18 because I thought their slightly higher levels of irrelevance from being really old didn't warrant the time spent in these last few weeks.

as for retake? pretty screwed in terms of new materials but at least i won't think "What if i did some extra modern PTs for the june, i wouldn't even have to retake." i'll just find some way to review old questions and retake old PTs if a oct retake is in order.

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mickeyD
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby mickeyD » Tue May 17, 2011 6:24 pm

Strange wrote:Those of you who may retake in Oct if you don't get the score you want, are you saving some fresh PT's just in case or are you going all in? I've got about 14-15 left and I was gonna do half and save the rest, but I'm wondering if I should just try to burn through them all


I'm saving PTs 50, 52, 53, and 54.

I'll have done 30 by test day. People say you should do them all but personally I don't see much of a difference between 30 and 34 PTs. It's what you do between each PT that makes you better, not necessarily testing yourself on new material every day. By saving 4 PTs I also think it takes some pressure off of me for the June sitting, because I won't have this feeling that I only have "one shot."

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Strange
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Strange » Tue May 17, 2011 6:37 pm

mickeyD wrote:
Strange wrote:Those of you who may retake in Oct if you don't get the score you want, are you saving some fresh PT's just in case or are you going all in? I've got about 14-15 left and I was gonna do half and save the rest, but I'm wondering if I should just try to burn through them all


I'm saving PTs 50, 52, 53, and 54.

I'll have done 30 by test day. People say you should do them all but personally I don't see much of a difference between 30 and 34 PTs. It's what you do between each PT that makes you better, not necessarily testing yourself on new material every day. By saving 4 PTs I also think it takes some pressure off of me for the June sitting, because I won't have this feeling that I only have "one shot."


Cool, that's what I'll probably do. So close to my goal that it'd probably be better if I do as much as possible.

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tigerlaw7
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby tigerlaw7 » Tue May 17, 2011 6:38 pm

I'm finishing the few remaining tests I had in the 30s this week (I jumped out of order for a little while based on the available material that I had) and I think the LGs in the 30s have made me worse at LG overall - they threw me for such a loop I've forgetten to do really basic things, and I haven't seen a good LG score in a while compared to averaging -0/-1. I'm thinking about going back to the LG Bible and having a refresher course...

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Tue May 17, 2011 6:40 pm

I considered saving some, but I've personally found that I hardly remember any RC or LG questions in tests I've done more than a month ago. I know the marginal benefit of doing the last five PTs isn't great, but I want to give myself the best possible shot the first time, and if I have to retake, I can just retake old ones without much trouble.

jim-green
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby jim-green » Tue May 17, 2011 7:03 pm

theaether wrote:
jim-green wrote:I thought I was doing well on LG redo when I repeated old games. But yesterday, I borrowed the book LSAT for Dummies by Amy Blackwell from the library. The book has actual LSAT games with the variables and settings changed. E.g., birds in a forest changed to kids at a party. The games are bloody difficult! I could not finish even 1 section!
If it's just the variables that are changed, it should still be easy if you remember subconsciously a lot of the inferences. But as you said, the settings are changed too, so I'm assuming the rules and conditions are all changed around. Well then, it's not the LSAT anymore and that's why you're finding it hard. you've been training in the LSAT logic games way for so long that you're used to it by now, and different logic games, although they may still be called logic games, just aren't testing the same exact things.
I hope you are right. But they did not change the conditions around. Just the variables and settings. They changed the words. I compared to the original game.

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Tue May 17, 2011 8:22 pm

I got my Staedtler erasers in the mail today. I haven't used one since middle school, but I remembered how good they are so I ordered some from Amazon last weekend.

I just gave one a try and it felt like hooking up with a high school crush with whom you lost contact during college. :roll:

I feel invincible. Even though on the LSAT I'll probably end up using the Ticonderoga pencil erasers. :lol:

jim-green
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby jim-green » Tue May 17, 2011 8:25 pm

soj wrote:I got my Staedtler erasers in the mail today. I haven't used one since middle school, but I remembered how good they are so I ordered some from Amazon last weekend. I just gave one a try and it felt like hooking up with a high school crush with whom you lost contact during college. :roll:
I know. I love the feel of those soft, firm erasers in my hands too.

theaether
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby theaether » Tue May 17, 2011 8:44 pm

jim-green wrote:
soj wrote:I got my Staedtler erasers in the mail today. I haven't used one since middle school, but I remembered how good they are so I ordered some from Amazon last weekend. I just gave one a try and it felt like hooking up with a high school crush with whom you lost contact during college. :roll:
I know. I love the feel of those soft, firm erasers in my hands too.


I see what you did there :twisted:

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Eichörnchen
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Eichörnchen » Tue May 17, 2011 9:20 pm

soj wrote:I considered saving some, but I've personally found that I hardly remember any RC or LG questions in tests I've done more than a month ago. I know the marginal benefit of doing the last five PTs isn't great, but I want to give myself the best possible shot the first time, and if I have to retake, I can just retake old ones without much trouble.

Soj if you have to retake I'll eat my shoe :lol:

zanzbar
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby zanzbar » Tue May 17, 2011 9:52 pm

I'm a June postponer, but since you guys are pretty much focusing exclusively on endurance training I was trying to figure out what is the best way to tackle using both the LRB and the Manhattan LR guide. I will be getting the Manhattan LR guide in the mail early next week so I am just trying to figure out a game plan for using both since they both are so well thought of on this site.




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