June 2011 Study Group

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gaud
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby gaud » Fri May 06, 2011 5:50 pm

Ssushi wrote:FML I'm on break from practice test 32 (with LG 38 as experimental) and i just had to guess on 9 out of 24. It's an experimental section but still, i don't know what is up with these 30 games but i cant do them to save my life. :(


Don't stress on those games so much. I promise you that they become progressively easier once you enter the 40's and the 50's. So smile :D , you're almost to the fun (easier) ones!!!

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mickeyD
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby mickeyD » Fri May 06, 2011 5:51 pm

Eich that's awesome! Obviously you know that your LR is not representative. The fact is that you took a few weeks off from PTing, were probably nervous as hell on this one, and came up with your best LG yet!

Lots of LG and LR drilling today. PT tomorrow, hoping for a breakthrough in LR.

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Ssushi
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Ssushi » Fri May 06, 2011 6:14 pm

Just finished up PT 32.

RC: -4
LR1: -6
LGExp: -9
LR2: -4
LG: -3

Raw 84
Scaled: 167 :|

I'm not sure what the hell happened with LR. I usually never miss more than 3 on any given section and this time i missed over 6 on one alone. I also don't know how i managed to do so poorly on the LG experimental (didnt finish the last 2 games), but managed to do fine on the other LG section.

Le sigh, i just can't seem to break 170. If i improve in something i mess up in something else. At least the bright side is im not going down.

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Eichörnchen
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Eichörnchen » Fri May 06, 2011 6:16 pm

mickeyD wrote:Eich that's awesome! Obviously you know that your LR is not representative. The fact is that you took a few weeks off from PTing, were probably nervous as hell on this one, and came up with your best LG yet!

Lots of LG and LR drilling today. PT tomorrow, hoping for a breakthrough in LR.

Thanks Mickey- I have to try to figure out why I am getting those random LR drops. It doesn't seem to have a clear pattern. Looking at my execl chart, I have gone -0/4, -3/-0, -0/-5, and now this -4/-1. So weird. I hope I figure that out because that's not cool.

I must admit that I am happy with the games (PT before this was -11) but I'm getting nervous about being nowhere near my PT goal. Good luck drilling and on your PT tomorrow!

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Ssushi
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Ssushi » Fri May 06, 2011 6:24 pm

gaud wrote:
Ssushi wrote:FML I'm on break from practice test 32 (with LG 38 as experimental) and i just had to guess on 9 out of 24. It's an experimental section but still, i don't know what is up with these 30 games but i cant do them to save my life. :(


Don't stress on those games so much. I promise you that they become progressively easier once you enter the 40's and the 50's. So smile :D , you're almost to the fun (easier) ones!!!


Yea I took the June 07 as a diagnostic a few months back and i got -1 on LG. Not to be blasphemous, but I'm not sure if the LGB method works for me. I do much better when i just scratch my own notes and think about it. On this last PT i tried the LGB way to do it and i only finished 15 out of 24 problems. For the next LG section i just said to hell with it and did whatever i wanted and i got -3. I can't tell if my method just works better for me or the games are just easier.

jim-green
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby jim-green » Fri May 06, 2011 6:37 pm

tmon wrote:You've all been a great motivation to keep going and I hope you get a 180 and don't have to think about this monster after your scores are in. :mrgreen:
Thanks for the LR help you gave me earlier on the forum. Good luck for Oct.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Fri May 06, 2011 7:17 pm

Currently getting destroyed by a 50 something PT. Yay

theaether
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby theaether » Fri May 06, 2011 7:35 pm

Eichörnchen wrote:Looking at my execl chart, I have gone -0/4, -3/-0, -0/-5, and now this -4/-1. So weird.


Teach me your -0 to -1 LR ways. Are you finishing sections with 3-5min left to go over unsure questions and then change answers to the correct ones, or are you just destroying it accurately the first go-around and finish with less time left? And also, you are reading most, but not all the answer choices right? I find that picking 'A' or 'B' saves me a lot of time, but I sometimes worry about there being a 'D' that's a much better answer.

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Eichörnchen
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Eichörnchen » Fri May 06, 2011 7:56 pm

theaether wrote:
Eichörnchen wrote:Looking at my execl chart, I have gone -0/4, -3/-0, -0/-5, and now this -4/-1. So weird.


Teach me your -0 to -1 LR ways. Are you finishing sections with 3-5min left to go over unsure questions and then change answers to the correct ones, or are you just destroying it accurately the first go-around and finish with less time left? And also, you are reading most, but not all the answer choices right? I find that picking 'A' or 'B' saves me a lot of time, but I sometimes worry about there being a 'D' that's a much better answer.

No, I always read every single answer choice even when I'm sure I have chosen the correct one already. I'm anal like that. I finish with about a minute to spare, give or take, and it usually doesn't involve too much answer changing so I guess I generally get them on the first sweep. I just want to know why I can go -0 in one and -4 in the next. It's very odd, especially because all the times I go -0 doesn't feel much different from the ones that turn out to have some wrong. I think I will start picking up the pace a bit because I don't push myself to read extraordinarily quickly, just brisk to normal reading pace, so maybe if I shave off a few minutes I can use the extra 3-4 mins at the end for unsure question review. I want to get -0s in both sections! I mean I'm obviously capable of -0s so I don't know why I usually make up for it in the other LR w/a -4 or something. Frustrating.

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Fri May 06, 2011 8:26 pm

Ugh, started a PT despite better judgment (got greedy, wanted to finish this week's schedule early and take the weekend off) and had to take a break after the second section (before the usual post-S3 break). Feeling sick and crappy. I'll finish it, but I have a feeling this isn't going to go well.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Fri May 06, 2011 9:27 pm

Just dropped a score on 50 that wouldn't probably even get me into ND with a 3.9. Says the kid who is adamant about sitting in June.

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Fri May 06, 2011 10:42 pm

PT58
LR1: -4
RC: -2
RCe (PT21 S4): -3
LG: -0
LR2: -1
Raw: -7
Scaled: 173

I got a little ambitious and decided to try a very recent PT. Again, I probably shouldn't have since I wasn't at my best today (though in the later sections I was back at 100%), but I decided on this yesterday (when my confidence was sky-high) and once I wrote down the PT number on the answer sheet, there was no going back. :roll:

After I scored LG, I got my hopes up about pulling off 175. (I have a bad habit of thoroughly studying the conversion scale before grading the exam, and sometimes before even taking the exam.) I knew I'd have to get -0 in LR2 but I thought it might be possible since I felt very good about LR2. But it turns out I made a mistake in a Q I'd thought was a lay-up. Oh well. I hate it when I lose two scaled points on one Q, but that's how it is.

I knew I sucked in LR1, and getting sick is definitely part of it, but there's no excuse for some of the mistakes I made in that section. I might be feeling under the weather in June, too--I expect myself to perform well under any circumstances, even as I cut myself some slack now so I don't aggravate my health. (Sounds dramatic, but it's really not a big deal--I'm guessing a light cold at worst, most likely nothing if I get 10 hours of sleep tonight. :lol: ) The extra break after S2 (which obviously won't be granted on the real test) helped me regroup and excel in LG and LR2. Not so much in RCe, but hey, for me, -3 RC is nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm happy that my streak of getting no more than 2 Qs wrong in recent RCs remains intact.

That's the end of prep for me this week--I'll be back on Monday. Good luck, and let's kill it in a month!

EDIT: the composite scores from the previous four tests' experimentals:
PT21
LG (5/2): -0
LR1 (5/3): -0
LR2 (5/5): -1
RC (5/6): -3
Raw: -4
Scaled: 179

I underperformed on the first two PTs I used exclusively as experimentals (29, 30); however, since then, I've overperformed on the three next experimental PTs (39, 41, 21). I'm not sure what to make of it, though I'm happy with any upward trend.

EDIT again: I now have 15 PTs left. :shock:
EDIT 3: Mean RC score down to -3.02. Wait, what?!? When did that happen? What about all those -5s and -7s I got? Must be something wrong with the spreadsheet. :P
Last edited by soj on Fri May 06, 2011 10:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Hunterrhoid
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Hunterrhoid » Fri May 06, 2011 10:48 pm

GUYS. I've been missing you. In the navy, underway all the time, 70 hour work weeks since last november, blaaahhhh. I scratched out a little study time recently, and came up with a faster method for PR/PF that I would like to share. I'm not missing these really anymore, but they do take up time, and stop me from sometimes getting that extra second/minute with a question that has me tangled up.

Time Attack PR/PF method:

PR/PF correct answers have to match in 4 areas:
Conclusion
Validity
Relationship of Elements
Method

To quickly attack these reliably, I've started writing the following next to the question:
C
FV
E

C = conclusion
FV = flawed/valid
E = elements

I use these as reminders that these are the 'rules' (as in logic games) that I use to evaluate the ACs in a PR/PF question.

Attacking:
C: scan and eliminate those that don't match. A few common ones:
1) Prescriptive Stim (advocates something): eliminate conclusions which are neutral statements of fact, and vice versa if the stim is neutral.
2) If the stim has 'either A or B' then I eliminate 'therefore, A' conclusions.
3) Predictions! If the stim predicts, the AC must predict.

FV:
If the stim is valid, then TCR must be valid. If the stim is flawed, TCR must be flawed.

E:
Look for relationships in the stim.
'A results in B', 'C results in D', 'Therefore, either B or D'
does not match:
'A results in B', 'C results in D', 'Therefore, either A or D'

I cross off the answers and write the reason next to them. This helps me with doubts and second guessing as I can tend to get lost in the wall of text of a complex and lengthy PR/PF. The breakout is usually as follows:
C - eliminates 2 ACs
FV - eliminates 1 AC
E - eliminates 1 AC (usually the last one for me, because it is the hardest to spot)

Constructing a method like this has helped me to learn how these questions are built, and to know better what to look for. It hasn't increased my percentage of PR/PF questions that I get right. It has decreased the time I take to do them, which gives me the needed time to address and destroy that one tricky question.

Final note: Method of reasoning also has to match, but usually doesn't come into play. The reason I say this is because ACs that can be crossed out by method are usually pretty easy to spot. They are so different. I don't prioritize checking it, because this method of attacking PR/PF is for difficult ones toward the end of the section, not for a simple one near the front, which is where you normally see an AC that is so far off from the stim that it is making an analogy when the stim is conditional reasoning.

The exception to this might be Parallel Flaw questions, in which the particular flaw (or flaws) must match. They must be wrong in the same way. Again, I don't worry about this, because this isn't a big issue for me. When they are that different, they jump out before I can even think about it, and I eliminate them.

I hope this helps someone because you guys always help and inspire me, for which I am grateful. Ok, I just got paged to the bridge. This ship sucks.
Last edited by Hunterrhoid on Sat May 07, 2011 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Fri May 06, 2011 10:54 pm

Hey Hunter, we missed ya! Hope the navy's treating you well. Thanks for the tip. PR/PF mistakes are like cockroaches that won't die, and they seem even more common now that I've improved in other Q types and these represent a greater percentage of my mistakes. I'll try your analysis when I go over the LR Qs I've previously gotten wrong. I don't want to try a brand new kind of analysis in the middle of a PT when there's time constraint. Thanks again in advance.

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99.9luft
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby 99.9luft » Fri May 06, 2011 11:40 pm

Guys, I've figured out a good way to prep for june - stay off tls :)

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Darko86
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Darko86 » Sat May 07, 2011 12:02 am

I have a question I was hoping y'all could possibly give me some general advice for. While drilling, pretty much all of the different questions types but possibly slightly less in RC, I tend to do much better on questions than when I take a full PT. It's not particularly a issue of timing, because I've tested it, and I don't spend an inordinate amount of time on most questions while drilling. I also don't believe it has to do with fatigue because it doesn't necessarily begin in later sections of the PT. I suppose it's just something I need to work out by continuing to PT, but it is a bit frustrating.

The only thing that I can think of is that perhaps I sometimes abandon the methods I have learned and practiced when I am taking a PT because I get more concerned with being positive that I am staying on pace.

Anybody else seem to have a problem similar to this?

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ladybug89
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby ladybug89 » Sat May 07, 2011 12:19 am

Eichörnchen wrote:
mickeyD wrote:Eich that's awesome! Obviously you know that your LR is not representative. The fact is that you took a few weeks off from PTing, were probably nervous as hell on this one, and came up with your best LG yet!

Lots of LG and LR drilling today. PT tomorrow, hoping for a breakthrough in LR.

Thanks Mickey- I have to try to figure out why I am getting those random LR drops. It doesn't seem to have a clear pattern. Looking at my execl chart, I have gone -0/4, -3/-0, -0/-5, and now this -4/-1. So weird. I hope I figure that out because that's not cool.

I must admit that I am happy with the games (PT before this was -11) but I'm getting nervous about being nowhere near my PT goal. Good luck drilling and on your PT tomorrow!


Eich, this kept happening to me too. It was SO FRUSTRATING because I couldn't find a pattern to the mistakes (at first I also thought it might be a fatigue issue, but then i went -4/-0, and that theory was shot). Annnnd actually this post is terribly unhelpful because I have no solution, just wanted to commiserate on how annoying that is.

Basically I never figured out what was going on, but I just tried to be more careful and focus on my mantra "the right answer is there, you just have to find it." which is stupid and obvious but for some reason helped me if I kept it in my head. Just started doing much more consistently in the last few PTs - hope that happens for you too! Gooooood luck!

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Ssushi
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Ssushi » Sat May 07, 2011 1:29 am

Ok so when i go back and review my practice tests and missed question, I've noticed that just about every time i am able to pick out the correct answer quite easily. Many of the mistakes i make are either stupid mistakes, or when i go back and review the question and correct answer I'm like "duh".

I'm hoping on the actual test my focus will be kicked up a notch since it's so important and i wont make these silly mistakes but I'm not sure of that's something i can bank on. Any ideas to avoid missing such silly things?

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OhOkay
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby OhOkay » Sat May 07, 2011 8:45 am

Wow, I just missed a lot of action. So much talk of October! This is making me sorta nervous, dang!
99.9luft wrote:Guys, I've figured out a good way to prep for june - stay off tls :)
Lol. Might actually be true :D

Anyway, I'm giving this a hard push, gotta do it in June. If anyone wants to be private study buddies (keeping each other in check re: our schedules, not being lazy, staying motivated and not losing hope etc.), PM me!

Chin up, everybody!

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Eichörnchen
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Eichörnchen » Sat May 07, 2011 9:04 am

ladybug89 wrote:
Eichörnchen wrote:
mickeyD wrote:Eich that's awesome! Obviously you know that your LR is not representative. The fact is that you took a few weeks off from PTing, were probably nervous as hell on this one, and came up with your best LG yet!

Lots of LG and LR drilling today. PT tomorrow, hoping for a breakthrough in LR.

Thanks Mickey- I have to try to figure out why I am getting those random LR drops. It doesn't seem to have a clear pattern. Looking at my execl chart, I have gone -0/4, -3/-0, -0/-5, and now this -4/-1. So weird. I hope I figure that out because that's not cool.

I must admit that I am happy with the games (PT before this was -11) but I'm getting nervous about being nowhere near my PT goal. Good luck drilling and on your PT tomorrow!


Eich, this kept happening to me too. It was SO FRUSTRATING because I couldn't find a pattern to the mistakes (at first I also thought it might be a fatigue issue, but then i went -4/-0, and that theory was shot). Annnnd actually this post is terribly unhelpful because I have no solution, just wanted to commiserate on how annoying that is.

Basically I never figured out what was going on, but I just tried to be more careful and focus on my mantra "the right answer is there, you just have to find it." which is stupid and obvious but for some reason helped me if I kept it in my head. Just started doing much more consistently in the last few PTs - hope that happens for you too! Gooooood luck!

At least I'm not alone haha. I don't see a pattern but tonight I think I'll look at my PTs more carefully just in case there is one. What's weird is I feel pretty much the same doing a -0 section as I do a -4. I don't feel like "swish- nailed it!" after my -0s (until I grade it haha). I guess maybe that's because I pay more attention to each question I'm on and kind of forget whatever happened on previous Qs. It's probably just a question of practice makes perfect, so I think I will read the LRB this weekend. I read the first quarter of it months and months ago but that's the only thing I read for LR. I have just been doing and reviewing them on my own. I just kind of realized that it's sorta ridiculous that I haven't read a prep book on LR yet :oops:

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ladybug89
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby ladybug89 » Sat May 07, 2011 9:20 am

Eichörnchen wrote:
ladybug89 wrote:
Eichörnchen wrote:
mickeyD wrote:Eich that's awesome! Obviously you know that your LR is not representative. The fact is that you took a few weeks off from PTing, were probably nervous as hell on this one, and came up with your best LG yet!

Lots of LG and LR drilling today. PT tomorrow, hoping for a breakthrough in LR.

Thanks Mickey- I have to try to figure out why I am getting those random LR drops. It doesn't seem to have a clear pattern. Looking at my execl chart, I have gone -0/4, -3/-0, -0/-5, and now this -4/-1. So weird. I hope I figure that out because that's not cool.

I must admit that I am happy with the games (PT before this was -11) but I'm getting nervous about being nowhere near my PT goal. Good luck drilling and on your PT tomorrow!


Eich, this kept happening to me too. It was SO FRUSTRATING because I couldn't find a pattern to the mistakes (at first I also thought it might be a fatigue issue, but then i went -4/-0, and that theory was shot). Annnnd actually this post is terribly unhelpful because I have no solution, just wanted to commiserate on how annoying that is.

Basically I never figured out what was going on, but I just tried to be more careful and focus on my mantra "the right answer is there, you just have to find it." which is stupid and obvious but for some reason helped me if I kept it in my head. Just started doing much more consistently in the last few PTs - hope that happens for you too! Gooooood luck!

At least I'm not alone haha. I don't see a pattern but tonight I think I'll look at my PTs more carefully just in case there is one. What's weird is I feel pretty much the same doing a -0 section as I do a -4. I don't feel like "swish- nailed it!" after my -0s (until I grade it haha). I guess maybe that's because I pay more attention to each question I'm on and kind of forget whatever happened on previous Qs. It's probably just a question of practice makes perfect, so I think I will read the LRB this weekend. I read the first quarter of it months and months ago but that's the only thing I read for LR. I have just been doing and reviewing them on my own. I just kind of realized that it's sorta ridiculous that I haven't read a prep book on LR yet :oops:


Ahaha that was exactly how I felt! and then i was really surprised/pissed off when I scored it. Although thinking about it now, I think I know what the pattern was - a good portion of the mistakes I was making were due to careless reading (like missing a few important words in the stim), and so if I missed one q in a section, my whole approach to that section was probably not focused enough, and I ended up missing a few. But if I was focused, I was much more likely to get -0/-1. So now I remind myself before each section not to accidentally start skimming or whatever. Dunno if that's what your mistakes are like too, but something to consider I guess?

jim-green
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby jim-green » Sat May 07, 2011 9:29 am

Eich, I envy your LG performance.
Jim GREEN
Eichörnchen wrote:I must admit that I am happy with the games (PT before this was -11) but I'm getting nervous about being nowhere near my PT goal. Good luck drilling and on your PT tomorrow!

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Eichörnchen
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Eichörnchen » Sat May 07, 2011 9:58 am

jim-green wrote:Eich, I envy your LG performance.
Jim GREEN
Eichörnchen wrote:I must admit that I am happy with the games (PT before this was -11) but I'm getting nervous about being nowhere near my PT goal. Good luck drilling and on your PT tomorrow!

I just hope it sticks - I'm suspicious. That -3 seems too good to be true for queen -10+

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Sat May 07, 2011 10:56 am

LSAT nightmare:
I often mark Qs I'm unsure about right on the scantron sheet by circling the Q numbers that I want to return to if I have time. I did that in my dream, and then immediately (lol) got a 136 because the scantron machine read my circles as bubbles in adjacent questions. :lol: It was devastating. I was actually sad in my dream because I didn't think I could get into T14 with a 136 (duh).

I guess I'll have to remember to erase those marks on the real test. :roll:

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Eichörnchen
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Eichörnchen » Sat May 07, 2011 1:07 pm

soj wrote:LSAT nightmare:
I often mark Qs I'm unsure about right on the scantron sheet by circling the Q numbers that I want to return to if I have time. I did that in my dream, and then immediately (lol) got a 136 because the scantron machine read my circles as bubbles in adjacent questions. :lol: It was devastating. I was actually sad in my dream because I didn't think I could get into T14 with a 136 (duh).

I guess I'll have to remember to erase those marks on the real test. :roll:

Haha I feel like I dream about the LSAT every night now. I think that, along with the habit of reading and writing "last" as "LSAT", is a sign that it's getting in our heads :)

And ladybug89, I get what you mean. So far it looks like I don't accidentally skim or miss words, but I do something sort of similar. It's like I read it but am in the wrong mindset or something. Like I think about a term the wrong way...it's kind of hard to describe :? I need to make sure I get in the right mindset. I read somewhere that someone uses the same playlist for their warm-up before a test to get themselves in the zone. Maybe I should try that, although lately all I want to listen to when studying is strange, angry Swedes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yxtA8HoPlY




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