June 2011 Study Group

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:14 pm

Kurst wrote:
soj wrote:LG: Wow, two in/out games! The Atlas/Manhattan method saved my life here, though it was still time-consuming. It's not that in/out inferences are all that difficult to come up with--it's that I'm less confident about my in/out inferences, and therefore waste time verifying them.

Have you tried using a logic chain for In/Out games? Steve Schwartz and Griffon Prep both solve the birds in the forest game by means of the logic chain that I have in mind.

Steve Schwartz (LSAT Blog): http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/lo ... orest.html
Griffon Prep: http://www.griffonprep.com/Birdgamesolution.html

Oh, cool. I'll definitely give this method a try later today. Thanks.

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pkpop
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby pkpop » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:24 pm

geverett wrote:I am in the room right now. Having a hard time staying motivated, and don't have work today so if someone wants to come in and go over stuff I'm all for it.


Greg, if there is anyway you'll still be in there around 4, then I will probably join you later.

forps
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby forps » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:27 pm

Hello all,

I am registered for June testing. I have started my studying in March. I finished reading LR Bible and 85% done reading LG Bible. Very recent Timed PT got me 160. It was first time I hit 160 - used to get 156 157ish.

I am getting many Q's wrong in LR.. about 7 in RC. Usually -2 to 0 on LG.

Would it be too late for me to aim for 170 by June testing?

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Eichörnchen
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Eichörnchen » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:24 pm

Hey everyone - I'm the room and I'm currently going through PT 18's RC and LR. I have these questions scanned and ready to put up on the board in case anyone wants extra practice.

jim-green
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby jim-green » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:30 pm

forps wrote:Would it be too late for me to aim for 170 by June testing?
You're asking the wrong question. First, how many are you getting wrong on each PT? What makes u get them wrong? Are you analyzing your answers after? You seem committed to taking it in June. The best thing to do is complete the bibles and take PTs, then analyze wrong answers.
Your question here is like this: I can run 10 miles at a time now. Can I improve by June to run a full marathon? Maybe, maybe not. Everyone is different. Depends on my body, nutrition and how much I practice.

forps
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby forps » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:01 pm

jim-green wrote:
forps wrote:Would it be too late for me to aim for 170 by June testing?
You're asking the wrong question. First, how many are you getting wrong on each PT? What makes u get them wrong? Are you analyzing your answers after? You seem committed to taking it in June. The best thing to do is complete the bibles and take PTs, then analyze wrong answers.
Your question here is like this: I can run 10 miles at a time now. Can I improve by June to run a full marathon? Maybe, maybe not. Everyone is different. Depends on my body, nutrition and how much I practice.


Thank you for your reply:)

For LR portion, I usually get Assumption / Flaw Reasoning kind of questions wrong..
I solve questions which I get wrong after wards but I still get some of them wrong.

I don't know exactly how many I get correct for LR but around 18 right out of 26 LR.
I attempt to solve 20 questions and guess 6 questions due to time limit.
I am trying to get them right before I work on speed - following other people's advice.

It was about this time last year when I took the first diagnostic test and I got 148.
I worked on LG last summer (5 hours / week for three months)
LG is no worry for now.

I was much weaker at RC. Heard RC isn't easy to raise score in short time so I started to read newspapers and magazines. Guess it helped me a lot since I am doing better.
By the time I start reading the last passage I have about 5 minutes left, meaning I spend approx. 10 min per passage+solving questions - bad bad..
I usually get 3-4 wrong out of attempted questions. I feel like I can raise some points here easier than LR.


I plan to spend 20 hours / week intensively studying for LSAT.
I will probably have 40 hours / week in May - gonna be the entertaining month of the year.

If I don't hit 170 in PT by end of May, I will cancel and change my testing date to Oct. for sure. But I am not thinking about that in my mind. Wanna get this test out of my way before it gets hot.

jim-green
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby jim-green » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:31 pm

forps wrote:Thank you for your reply:)
Correct, you must do untimed PTs before timed ones. I did not and paid the price. Looking at your thoughts above, you are definitely thinking about the right things now.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby crumpetsandtea » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:00 pm

forps wrote:
jim-green wrote:
forps wrote:Would it be too late for me to aim for 170 by June testing?
You're asking the wrong question. First, how many are you getting wrong on each PT? What makes u get them wrong? Are you analyzing your answers after? You seem committed to taking it in June. The best thing to do is complete the bibles and take PTs, then analyze wrong answers.
Your question here is like this: I can run 10 miles at a time now. Can I improve by June to run a full marathon? Maybe, maybe not. Everyone is different. Depends on my body, nutrition and how much I practice.


Thank you for your reply:)


What are you currently PTing at, and what's your study plan for the next 2 months?

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geverett
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby geverett » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:30 pm

ACE the Lsat is kicking my ass. Love it!

Soj,
What if any are the differences you are finding between the older practice tests and the newer ones?

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geverett
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby geverett » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:02 pm

Soj,
You should pick up the ACE the LSAT book. Would love to see how you would come out on some of the sections doing. It's kind of like what would happen if someone looked at the list of "10 hardest Logic Games" and composed logic game sections by picking 4 of them at random.

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geverett
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby geverett » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:37 pm

In the room right now if anyone wants to work on some stuff.

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dr123
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby dr123 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:38 pm

How much time are y'all devoting to rare games?

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:32 am

I have the ACE games book, but I stopped doing it after about 20% through for a few reasons:
- The games felt fake and unrealistic. Not just because they were harder, but because of their excessive use of rare question types like combinations and max/min distributions. (However, this is also a strength because real games don't give me much practice on these.)
- I have plenty of real games, and games usually have pretty good replay value anyway.
- There were a couple typos. I can't remember which ones exactly, but these things really turn me off because if I don't realize that they're typos, I'll keep plugging away trying to make the answer work, and that just reinforces bad reasoning.

I might go back to it if I exhaust my other materials, but I doubt it. I'll probably stick with real stuff, at least for LG.

Ace does have a great method for in/out games that's different from PS. The method is also explained, in more detail, in Atlas/Manhattan.

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99.9luft
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby 99.9luft » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:53 am

dr123 wrote:How much time are y'all devoting to rare games?


like the flasks game (PT 12) or mapping games?

none, because they won't show up, and if they will, i'll be happier than doing another grouping game.

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:54 am

PT34 in progress. Also finished the last section of PT29, even though I really should have waited till PT34 is finished to score it, just like on the real LSAT. Couldn't resist, though.

PT29
LR1e (4/2): -5
RCe (4/3): -4
LGe (4/4): -0
LR2e (4/5): -3
Raw: -12
Scaled: 170

Brutal performance on LR. My goal for LR on test day is -2 combined, so I have some work to do. One of my mistakes in LR2 was on Q1, in which I mistook strengthen for weaken. :lol:

forps
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby forps » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:57 am

crumpetsandtea wrote:
forps wrote:
jim-green wrote:
forps wrote:Would it be too late for me to aim for 170 by June testing?
You're asking the wrong question. First, how many are you getting wrong on each PT? What makes u get them wrong? Are you analyzing your answers after? You seem committed to taking it in June. The best thing to do is complete the bibles and take PTs, then analyze wrong answers.
Your question here is like this: I can run 10 miles at a time now. Can I improve by June to run a full marathon? Maybe, maybe not. Everyone is different. Depends on my body, nutrition and how much I practice.


Thank you for your reply:)


What are you currently PTing at, and what's your study plan for the next 2 months?


I think the most recent one was from june 1999. I will do june 2007 one tomorrow and update the result.

Two months study plan is do two tests per week and review , total time 20
hours per week
until may 9. From then wil spend 40 hours per week five tests per wk
times other than testing wil be spent on reviewing and working on speed.
Hopefully I achieve some improvement by end of may

Excuse me about sloppy writing I m on galaxy tab:(

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soj
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby soj » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:03 am

Feeling a little under the weather. I also completely relapsed and screwed up my sleep schedule again, falling asleep at 5:30 pm and waking up at midnight. :? Maybe 6 PTs in 5 days (spread out over 5 sessions, one each day) is a little much. I won't be doing another PT until Thursday.

PT34
LRe (PT29 S4): -3
RC: -4
LR1: -2
LR2: -3
LG: 0
Raw: -9
Scaled: 174

Got killed (3/6) by the Lamarckian passage. Made more sloppy mistakes in LR than I normally do, though I still got quite a few questions I was unsure about right, especially in LR1.

I tried Steve Schwartz's logic chain method for Game 4 (doctors in two clinics), but screwed up the diagramming somehow and ended up using the Manhattan method anyway. I should probably practice the chain method on a familiar problem (e.g. birds in forest) before attempting it again. Nearly lost two Qs in LG to misbubbling, but luckily caught it because I had extra time (which really only happens in LG). Gotta be more careful.

I'm going to analyze my mistakes on this PT, and then take a break from LSAT prep. I'll be catching up on Modern Family and watching some movies for the next two days. No LSAT or TLS till Thursday. :)

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mickeyD
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby mickeyD » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:09 am

Just started Testmasters yesterday. I've been self studying for a while using the Bibles so the first class was a little redundant, mostly on Necessary/Sufficient conditions and the basics.

I can already tell I have a great teacher, he's very charismatic and relates to everyone well. But aside from that, as I go through the first class I can't help but think that some of the little nuances of the Powerscore system are superior, for the exact reasons that Powerscore describes. For example, Testmasters classifies all of the question types for LR the same, but also classify them by number (Must Be True = Type 1, etc). My teacher then refers to each question type by that number "So guys, this is a Type 1 question." It makes you form an unnecessary link.

Also, Testmasters distinguishes from Must Be True and Most Strongly Supported. Powerscore says that they're functionally the same, and I've had no problems using this method. I guess this can't really hurt. Aside from that, little nitpicky things like representing multiple sufficient/necessary conditions in diagrams next to eachother instead of on top of eachother.

With all of this said, it's still a great course. We're starting with conditional reasoning questions in LR, so it's interesting to learn LR from a different starting point (Powerscore LRB started with Must Be True). Also the online resources are great- they provide a written explanation for literally every problem. I'm currently testing at 168-171, so I know the TLS opinion is that I'm wasting my money with a course, but I feel like this class will help me lock down the fundamentals.

Thanks for listening if any of you read that whole thing, and hope everyone else's progress is going well!

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Eichörnchen
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Eichörnchen » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:25 am

Maybe 6 PTs in 5 days (spread out over 5 sessions, one each day) is a little much


Phew no wonder you're feeling under the weather! You have definitely earned a few movie days I say haha - especially with those awesome scores you've been getting. Enjoy your break and I'm sure you'll come back even stronger with a little rest.

Manash
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Manash » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:36 pm

Haven't posted in a while. Followed my first PT score of 168 with a 165 and a 169. Took my 4th test last night.

PT 37
Sec 1 - RC - 25/26
Sec 2 - LG - 24/24 [EXP - PT 7]
Sec 3 - LR - 25/26
Sec 4 - LG - 21/24
Sec 5 - LR - 21/25

92 pts = 171


I got tired and sloppy in the last 2 sections. Having drilled LG relentlessly over the past few weeks, I actually thought I had finally gone -0...nope. That cost me and LR2 finished off the job to shut me out of getting the 175+ I was aiming for. PT 39 tonight.

PT Score Spread:
01.(PT 34) 168, 02.(PT 35) 165, 03.(PT 36) 169, 04.(PT 37) 171, 05.(PT 39) ,

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Neidermeyer519
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Neidermeyer519 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:06 pm

I'm really impressed with these powerscore books. I've always struggled with conditionals, contrapositive, etc, and bc I glossed over that, it made things a Lot harder than they need to be. thankfully it's starting to make much more sense now.

On a funny note, I was at my fraternity's formal this weekend and one of the guys said he was taking the LSAT this June. I asked him how long he had been studying for it, and he said he hadn't even looked at it yet.... Epic Fail

Manash
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby Manash » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:17 pm

Neidermeyer519 wrote:I'm really impressed with these powerscore books. I've always struggled with conditionals, contrapositive, etc, and bc I glossed over that, it made things a Lot harder than they need to be. thankfully it's starting to make much more sense now.

On a funny note, I was at my fraternity's formal this weekend and one of the guys said he was taking the LSAT this June. I asked him how long he had been studying for it, and he said he hadn't even looked at it yet.... Epic Fail


You'll be surprised how common this practice is among many takers.

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LawQ5
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby LawQ5 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:37 pm

So, I am now voluntarily unemployed until June and devoted to studying for this test full-time :twisted: Just wasn't satisfied with the amount of time I was getting in studying before (about 15 hours a week if I was lucky).

I've been on a 4 month schedule since Feb, but now that I have a lot more time to devote I guess I'll change things up. Anyone else studying full-time? How are you mapping out your study day? Suggestions appreciated.

jim-green
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby jim-green » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:54 pm

Manash wrote:You'll be surprised how common this practice is among many takers.
I've read the Powerscore bible and done the questions at the ends of its chapters. Any benefit for me to buy and read the Manhattan LSAT LR guide too?

jim-green
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Re: June 2011 Study Group

Postby jim-green » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:55 pm

Anyone going to be in the study room tonight? I'd like to discuss PT13 S2 #10 LR with anyone who will be in the room.




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