Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

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mexinstdls
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Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby mexinstdls » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:48 pm

Has anyone ever been successful in challenging an LSAT question/credited response after the scores have been announced? I've noticed on some PT's that questions have been removed. What is the procedure? Could it be a way to increase your score, after the fact, without having to retake?

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Claudius
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Claudius » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:51 pm

I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell you that the question that was removed on the June 2010 test was removed prior to the scores being released. I don't think anyone has figured out (or even remembers) the content of the question removed.

There was also a letter writing campaign of sorts regarding another question on the June test and it was not removed.

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YCrevolution
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby YCrevolution » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:56 pm

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amorfati
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby amorfati » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:57 pm

I would think it has something to do with how many people get it wrong. If a really ridiculous number of people miss a question (or perhaps choose a specific wrong answer), then they could perhaps determine that the question was too unreasonably difficult/unfair...

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mexinstdls
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby mexinstdls » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:58 pm

This sounds reasonable. Thanks for the insight.

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Pleasye
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Pleasye » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:00 pm

mexinstdls wrote:Has anyone ever been successful in challenging an LSAT question/credited response after the scores have been announced? I've noticed on some PT's that questions have been removed. What is the procedure? Could it be a way to increase your score, after the fact, without having to retake?

As YCRev said, LSAC removes the questions because of what they think, not what we think. Also, to the bolded: one question would either result in no change in your score or 1 point change in your score, which generally is not what people are hoping for in a retake.

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oshberg28
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby oshberg28 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:02 pm

Good question - don't have an answer. My cousin got an ACT answer changed though to give him a perfect score on the math section.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Lawquacious » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:09 pm

I challenged a RC question last December. The q wasn't overturned though. LSAC wrote a very detailed reply which I thought was cool. They have a particular email address for challenges. After further review and consideration I did come to see why the credited response was the best answer. I think my challenge related more to the question itself than to which answer was right, but honestly I don't even remember what exactly the topic of the passage was or exactly what I tried to argue.

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Pleasye
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Pleasye » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:15 pm

Lawquacious wrote:I challenged a RC question last December. The q wasn't overturned though. LSAC wrote a very detailed reply which I thought was cool. They have a particular email address for challenges. After further review and consideration I did come to see why the credited response was the best answer. I think my challenge related more to the question itself than to which answer was right, but honestly I don't even remember what exactly the topic of the passage was or exactly what I tried to argue.

That's really interesting. Do you challenge before scores are out?

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Ragged
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Ragged » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:16 pm

Yes, I challenged a game from June 2010. After the scores came out I got an email I got an email notifying me that my contention was noted but was not found no hold water, in so many words.

I knew it was a lost cause but gave it a go out of bitterness and just for the hell of it.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Lawquacious » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:33 pm

LSpleaseee wrote:That's really interesting. Do you challenge before scores are out?


I challenged after getting the score report. I don't know how you would do it before having the material to review (which comes with the score if I remember correctly), unless you have a great memory or are otherwise crystal clear on the q you want to challenge and why.

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DamnLSAT
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby DamnLSAT » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:41 pm

IMO, I think challenging a question on the LSAT makes you look bad. I know several people who have tried to challenge a particular question (a game from june2010 was a favorite), and every single one of them has failed. Even if you have a legit concern on the question, you are going up against lawyers who represent law school admissions. Good luck with that. Secondly, even if you somehow won, how does that look to a law school? Are you gonna sue the school every time you get a question wrong on a final exam?

This is an example of drawing attention to yourself in bad way.

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Ragged
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Ragged » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:44 pm

DamnLSAT wrote:IMO, I think challenging a question on the LSAT makes you look bad. I know several people who have tried to challenge a particular question (a game from june2010 was a favorite), and every single one of them has failed. Even if you have a legit concern on the question, you are going up against lawyers who represent law school admissions. Good luck with that. Secondly, even if you somehow won, how does that look to a law school? Are you gonna sue the school every time you get a question wrong on a final exam?

This is an example of drawing attention to yourself in bad way.

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Pleasye
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Pleasye » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:46 pm

DamnLSAT wrote: Secondly, even if you somehow won, how does that look to a law school? Are you gonna sue the school every time you get a question wrong on a final exam?

This is an example of drawing attention to yourself in bad way.

I don't think law schools can even see that you challenged a question.

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DamnLSAT
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby DamnLSAT » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:58 pm

Maybe/maybe not - but my point is that the idea of suing over a single question is futile at best, damaging at worst.

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Pleasye
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Pleasye » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:58 pm

DamnLSAT wrote:Maybe/maybe not - but my point is that the idea of suing over a single question is futile at best, damaging at worst.

You're not suing them. You're asking them to remove a question from scoring. Totally different.

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Ragged
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Ragged » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:59 pm

DamnLSAT wrote:Maybe/maybe not - but my point is that the idea of suing over a single question is futile at best, damaging at worst.


If everyone thought like you, nothing would ever get done.

delusional
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby delusional » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:02 pm

Ragged wrote:
DamnLSAT wrote:Maybe/maybe not - but my point is that the idea of suing over a single question is futile at best, damaging at worst.


If everyone thought like you, nothing would ever get done.

Very little, in fact, ever gets done.

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Ragged
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Ragged » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:02 pm

delusional wrote:
Ragged wrote:
DamnLSAT wrote:Maybe/maybe not - but my point is that the idea of suing over a single question is futile at best, damaging at worst.


If everyone thought like you, nothing would ever get done.

Very little, in fact, ever gets done.


Touche, touche.

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TLSanders
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby TLSanders » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:08 am

DamnLSAT wrote: Even if you have a legit concern on the question, you are going up against lawyers who represent law school admissions. Good luck with that. Secondly, even if you somehow won, how does that look to a law school? Are you gonna sue the school every time you get a question wrong on a final exam?

This is an example of drawing attention to yourself in bad way.


Going up against lawyers who represent law school admissions? That seems to assume that the testmakers are more concerned with being right than they are with creating good questions that assist law schools in making accurate predictions about your aptitude. Having interacted with some of those folks, I doubt that your assumption is accurate.

As far as how it's going to look to a school...if you succeed, it's going to look like your critical reasoning skills were sufficient to catch something that the people who "wrote the book" missed. Hard to see how that creates a negative impression.

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DamnLSAT
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby DamnLSAT » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:20 am

Going up against lawyers who represent law school admissions? That seems to assume that the testmakers are more concerned with being right than they are with creating good questions that assist law schools in making accurate predictions about your aptitude. Having interacted with some of those folks, I doubt that your assumption is accurate.

As far as how it's going to look to a school...if you succeed, it's going to look like your critical reasoning skills were sufficient to catch something that the people who "wrote the book" missed. Hard to see how that creates a negative impression.


I believe the testmakers are actively concerned with doing both. A test problem released with official test scores (thus surviving the committee's second chance to identify a misleading or poorly worded problem based on statistical data) that was successfully proven to be invalid would have massive implications. I may not know any LSAT writers, but I fully believe they would do everything possible to prove their test question correct and unambiguous.

As a result, I believe your chance of victory to be next to zero percent. And your efforts to prove the LSAT writers would be worthless and probably irritating. Futile at best.

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DamnLSAT
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby DamnLSAT » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:23 am

I do concede if you did win then I guess you'd become an LSAT hero. TLS would donate a forum to you.

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TLSanders
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby TLSanders » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:54 pm

DamnLSAT wrote:
I believe the testmakers are actively concerned with doing both. A test problem released with official test scores (thus surviving the committee's second chance to identify a misleading or poorly worded problem based on statistical data) that was successfully proven to be invalid would have massive implications. I may not know any LSAT writers, but I fully believe they would do everything possible to prove their test question correct and unambiguous.

As a result, I believe your chance of victory to be next to zero percent. And your efforts to prove the LSAT writers would be worthless and probably irritating. Futile at best.


Why do you think LSAC would be so much different from other standardized testing bodies, notably ETS, which have a similar stake in the validity of their tests? Is it simply because they're lawyers?

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Pleasye
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby Pleasye » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:31 pm

TLSanders wrote:Why do you think LSAC would be so much different from other standardized testing bodies, notably ETS, which have a similar stake in the validity of their tests? Is it simply because they're lawyers?

Do you all really think that everyone at LSAC is a lawyer?

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YCrevolution
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Re: Has anyone ever challenged a LSAT question?

Postby YCrevolution » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:36 pm

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