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Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:55 pm
by KevinP
In terms of individual games, these were probably not the hardest.

As a section, easily in the top 3 hardest sections:
No space to write for the first LG, second and third LGs were time consuming as hell, fourth LG was easy as hell and it was LAST.

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:04 am
by mediation_86
Yes, I am usually -1, -2 on LG and I have taken many if not all the LGs and this one was by far one of the hardest section as a whole. Very time consuming

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:51 am
by jerrymander
Maybe top 10. I can think of a number of LG sections in the 30s that were rough.

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:38 am
by bartleby
I'm not sure why people keep complaining about space to diagram.

From what I remember (my memory is fuzzy), I thought there wasn't a lot of space to diagram but I don't remember it being too big of a problem - and yes, I did diagram. It's like when people complain about the desks being too small. I just don't see it playing any role in the curve.

Merry Xmas.

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:48 am
by well-hello-there
Attorney wrote:My only concern about the curve though is that it takes difficulty into account but not the fact that they were so time-consuming. LSAC doesn't necessarily recycle entire experimental sections all at once, does it? Is it possible that they come piecemeal from different experimental LGs?
The entire LG section is tested as a whole before it is used as a scored section. Each final test question first appears in a pretest section (to carry out an initial screening) and then in a pre-operational section (to collect the data necessary for pre-equating). The questions, passages and games can come in any order in a pretest section but the scored sections of the test were administered with the same question order as an experimental section.
http://www.math.washington.edu/~billey/ ... Week.3.pdf

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:46 am
by iceland
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Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:23 am
by kkklick
well-hello-there wrote:
Attorney wrote:My only concern about the curve though is that it takes difficulty into account but not the fact that they were so time-consuming. LSAC doesn't necessarily recycle entire experimental sections all at once, does it? Is it possible that they come piecemeal from different experimental LGs?
The entire LG section is tested as a whole before it is used as a scored section. Each final test question first appears in a pretest section (to carry out an initial screening) and then in a pre-operational section (to collect the data necessary for pre-equating). The questions, passages and games can come in any order in a pretest section but the scored sections of the test were administered with the same question order as an experimental section.
http://www.math.washington.edu/~billey/ ... Week.3.pdf

That's good to hear. Since the lack of space on 2 games and with 2 difficult games sandwiched in between 2 easy games, it would only be fair that if the section as a whole is used during experimental sections for equating. The conditions have to be the same in order to produce similar results.

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:57 pm
by Eyetalian
The conferences game and the stained glass game should NOT have been grouped together. They were both too time consuming and their set-ups yielded few iron clad inferences. Either one of them should have been the toughest game of a section.

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:21 pm
by well-hello-there
kkklick wrote: it would only be fair that if the section as a whole is used during experimental sections for equating. The conditions have to be the same in order to produce similar results.
That's exactly what I was thinking. I read for hours through like 20 different official LSAC studies trying to glean information that would prove it but in the end, I had to settle for the paper linked to above. I believe the link I posted above however is still credible. One thing I did learn is that LSAC is trying damn hard to figure out how to best implement a computer based LSAT and possibly even a computerized adaptive LSAT similar to the GMAT. They are also looking into the use of collateral information from logic games sections to predict test taker performance on reading comp. passages. This would be done to reduce the required number of test takers who see a particular experimental RC section.

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:35 pm
by chopper
They were tough, and LG is by far my best section.

But I can only remember 3/4.

I know there was the hotel one, conferences, and stained glass, but what was the fourth one? I can't remember. (And I know that it was the easiest, and I did decent on it)

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:41 pm
by kkklick
chopper wrote:They were tough, and LG is by far my best section.

But I can only remember 3/4.

I know there was the hotel one, conferences, and stained glass, but what was the fourth one? I can't remember. (And I know that it was the easiest, and I did decent on it)

Utilities

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:38 pm
by anonymiB
kkklick wrote:
chopper wrote:They were tough, and LG is by far my best section.

But I can only remember 3/4.

I know there was the hotel one, conferences, and stained glass, but what was the fourth one? I can't remember. (And I know that it was the easiest, and I did decent on it)

Utilities


Utilities was first I think, hotel last, stained glass 2nd, conferences 3rd

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:21 pm
by chopper
anonymiB wrote:
kkklick wrote:
chopper wrote:They were tough, and LG is by far my best section.

But I can only remember 3/4.

I know there was the hotel one, conferences, and stained glass, but what was the fourth one? I can't remember. (And I know that it was the easiest, and I did decent on it)

Utilities


Utilities was first I think, hotel last, stained glass 2nd, conferences 3rd



Utilities and hotels were the same one.

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:23 pm
by anonymiB
chopper wrote:
anonymiB wrote:
kkklick wrote:
chopper wrote:They were tough, and LG is by far my best section.

But I can only remember 3/4.

I know there was the hotel one, conferences, and stained glass, but what was the fourth one? I can't remember. (And I know that it was the easiest, and I did decent on it)

Utilities


Utilities was first I think, hotel last, stained glass 2nd, conferences 3rd



Utilities and hotels were the same one.


No they weren't, what day the guy comes to do what utility? I don't think there was any hotel in there. The hotel was in conferences maybe, but I dont remember it being in utilities.

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:25 pm
by chopper
anonymiB wrote:
chopper wrote:
anonymiB wrote:
kkklick wrote:
Utilities and hotels were the same one.


No they weren't, what day the guy comes to do what utility? I don't think there was any hotel in there. The hotel was in conferences maybe, but I dont remember it being in utilities.


It was setting up the utilities at a hotel (motel...same thing), as far as I remember.

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:27 pm
by Attorney
anonymiB wrote:Utilities was first I think, hotel last, stained glass 2nd, conferences 3rd

I don't remember utilities OR hotels. Hope I did them!!

Re: Hardest LG ever?

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:36 pm
by well-hello-there
I'm not a big fan of grids but for the new and used cd's game, I used a 2 X 5 grid and was able to solve it in under 9 minutes. I didn't use a grid the first time I tried that game and I think it took me about 16 minutes.