Thinking about it today I really don't know how one could

Anomaly
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:55 pm

Re: Thinking about it today I really don't know how one could

Postby Anomaly » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:54 pm

For practicing games, go through a new LG section from an older test (or one that you havn't seen in a while) and circle EVERY question that hung you up. If there were any questions that you found yourself "brute forcing" then circle it. That was a poor approach. You did not need to make hypos for every choice. End of story. You need to look at these questions, pick them apart, and figure out how you wished you had approached it. Almost every question is testing you on limitations and inferences, and there is almost always a way to quickly narrow down the choices to 2 or 3. Even then, the rules or your previous deductions should hint you towards testing one choice before the other. Tweak your strategies with every section you do. "How could I have answered this question faster?" Maybe using previous work would have eliminated two choices right off the bat, saving you 25 seconds. Those seconds are HUGE on test day. Math was never my strongest subject, but if you employed this strategy on just TWO questions, that's 50 seconds. On test day,this might equate to 2 or 3 additional points.

Don't just brute force your way through any game in practice. Mindlessly plugging and chugging is not making you better at logic games.

TEST day is a different beast. If you are totally stuck, DON'T waste time. Start drawing hypos asap, but you can be pretty confident that you have overlooked something that would have made things flow at least somewhat more smoothly.

gens1tb
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:36 pm

Re: Thinking about it today I really don't know how one could

Postby gens1tb » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:06 pm

I honestly don't really think the stuff outside of logic basics (modus ponens, modus tollens, demorgan's, et c.) is going to help all that much. If the section was "Logical Proofs" it'd be a whole different story..

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2014
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Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Thinking about it today I really don't know how one could

Postby 2014 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:37 pm

Thinking back to the games, I can understand how people would be frustrated, but the technique that let me finish on time is as follows.

On question that clearly require hypos, I.E. "If X goes here, then where can Y not go" or "Which one of the following is not a possible combination" I think people have a tendency to get overwhelmed and start pumping out Hypos A-E. If you focus on what the question is asking and what the rules are, usually you can have an idea of where you should start.

For example if X has 2 or 3 rules that govern it, and one of the questions asks "Which one of the following is not possible" then I would probably start with the ones with X in them, since X is so restricted. Similarly if say L is a floater with no rules, that would be the last hypo that I would do since it can go about anywhere.

I would say that is why I managed to finish the games on time and feel well about them because on all of the challenging hypo questions, my gut instinct told me "Hey D. looks like it might not work, and even though I have no idea why it doesn't work yet, that is a good place to start" and if it IS D then you are done with that question and move on instead of going through figuring out why A-C, E do work.

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joebloe
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:02 am

Re: Thinking about it today I really don't know how one could

Postby joebloe » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:48 pm

gens1tb wrote:I honestly don't really think the stuff outside of logic basics (modus ponens, modus tollens, demorgan's, et c.) is going to help all that much. If the section was "Logical Proofs" it'd be a whole different story..

On PTs, I found material implication to be helpful in getting a couple MBT/MBF questions, and definitely helpful in conceptualization. While those games tend to be lower on the difficulty spectrum, it definitely frees up time for harder ones as part of a general section strategy.

58932ugahoige
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:23 am

Re: Thinking about it today I really don't know how one could

Postby 58932ugahoige » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:09 pm

EDITED BY MOD. Do NOT discuss details of yesterday's test. Thank you.

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KevinP
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 pm

Re: Thinking about it today I really don't know how one could

Postby KevinP » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:30 pm

These games weren't hard per se, just time consuming as hell. It was my 5th section and my mind was already worn out from concentrating. Combine that with a question that had NO room to diagram for people like me who write really big, 2 time-consuming as hell games, and the easiest game at the end.

The older games were "easier" compared to these because I could easily just figure out the inferences and just choose the correct answer choices. The answer choices this time around required a lot of hypotheticals and a section w/o room for writing the diagram.

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niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Thinking about it today I really don't know how one could

Postby niederbomb » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:30 pm

Anomaly wrote:For practicing games, go through a new LG section from an older test (or one that you havn't seen in a while) and circle EVERY question that hung you up. If there were any questions that you found yourself "brute forcing" then circle it. That was a poor approach. You did not need to make hypos for every choice. End of story. You need to look at these questions, pick them apart, and figure out how you wished you had approached it. Almost every question is testing you on limitations and inferences, and there is almost always a way to quickly narrow down the choices to 2 or 3. Even then, the rules or your previous deductions should hint you towards testing one choice before the other. Tweak your strategies with every section you do. "How could I have answered this question faster?" Maybe using previous work would have eliminated two choices right off the bat, saving you 25 seconds. Those seconds are HUGE on test day. Math was never my strongest subject, but if you employed this strategy on just TWO questions, that's 50 seconds. On test day,this might equate to 2 or 3 additional points.

Don't just brute force your way through any game in practice. Mindlessly plugging and chugging is not making you better at logic games.

TEST day is a different beast. If you are totally stuck, DON'T waste time. Start drawing hypos asap, but you can be pretty confident that you have overlooked something that would have made things flow at least somewhat more smoothly.


That was probably my problem. I wasted a lot of time looking for deductions that didn't exist on some hypo questions whereas if I had just done the hypos, I would have finished faster and had more material to answer other questions.

gens1tb
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:36 pm

Re: Thinking about it today I really don't know how one could

Postby gens1tb » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:49 am

joebloe wrote:
gens1tb wrote:I honestly don't really think the stuff outside of logic basics (modus ponens, modus tollens, demorgan's, et c.) is going to help all that much. If the section was "Logical Proofs" it'd be a whole different story..

On PTs, I found material implication to be helpful in getting a couple MBT/MBF questions, and definitely helpful in conceptualization. While those games tend to be lower on the difficulty spectrum, it definitely frees up time for harder ones as part of a general section strategy.


I'd consider knowing all the implications of "If p then q" to be part of logic basics




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