Cancelling the LSAT

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chup
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby chup » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:40 am

northwood wrote:theres no point in stressing.... just relax and see how it goes. worst case scenario is you retake ( which happends to be the go to respons for many questions anyways)


Oh, I didn't mean the LSAT specifically (I'm a 2L... it's been awhile).

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:44 am

i figured you didnt take the test. youve been around a while

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:47 am

freon wrote:On the LG section I'm scared I might have skipped a Q and answered 24 (not 23) and I'm semi-tempted to just cancel it despite the fact that, with the exception of this mishap, I probably did better than my last one.

Should I just wait it out and see if a hand-score is possible if I did indeed skip a Q? Or should I just cancel?

(I already have a cancel on file)



they do hand scoring in the event of a mis bubbling. You have to wait for the test to be released, double check to make sure you did misbubble. then identify the section and exact numbers that were misbubbled. You have to pay $65 or so for them to take a look. moneys not refundable though.

Keep the score. when i took the test,i thought i misbubbled. turns out i didnt, it was just post test nerves. dont cancel unless you are positive you did this.( you would know right after the section was over)

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nneal2
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby nneal2 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:07 am

So if you misbubbled and ask to have it handscored they will give you points for correct answers even if out of order?!? Ahh I'm so torn whether or not to cancel. Felt OK throughout the test (not great, but OK) then got to 5th section (LG for me) and realized I misbubbled literally 20 seconds before time was called. Had to erase from 14 down and try to rebubble. Ended up barely getting the 3rd game rebubbled and none of the 4th. All this after skipping the 2nd game (which caused the misbubble in the first place!) I'm devasted to see this happen in the last section of the test ---absolutely no time to go back and fix it and all of that wasted effort (took a year off to study after getting a measly 155 in June 2009 then had to take an "absent" in October because my Grandfather died 3 days before the test.) Just a brutal bout of luck for me. I was PTing in the mid 160s but I honestly don't know if this score is worse than my original 155?? How horrible would that look...even though LSU law doesn't average...I can pretty much guarantee no scholarship $$$ and if I take the test again in Feb. it will be so late it may not matter. SO cancel or keep?! It counts towards my 3 tries either way I only have 1 left. God I don't know if I can go through all of this again :(

northwood wrote:
freon wrote:On the LG section I'm scared I might have skipped a Q and answered 24 (not 23) and I'm semi-tempted to just cancel it despite the fact that, with the exception of this mishap, I probably did better than my last one.

Should I just wait it out and see if a hand-score is possible if I did indeed skip a Q? Or should I just cancel?

(I already have a cancel on file)



they do hand scoring in the event of a mis bubbling. You have to wait for the test to be released, double check to make sure you did misbubble. then identify the section and exact numbers that were misbubbled. You have to pay $65 or so for them to take a look. moneys not refundable though.

Keep the score. when i took the test,i thought i misbubbled. turns out i didnt, it was just post test nerves. dont cancel unless you are positive you did this.( you would know right after the section was over)

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:18 am

[quote="nneal2"]So if you misbubbled and ask to have it handscored they will give you points for correct answers even if out of order?!? Ahh I'm so torn whether or not to cancel. Felt OK throughout the test (not great, but OK) then got to 5th section (LG for me) and realized I misbubbled literally 20 seconds before time was called. Had to erase from 14 down and try to rebubble. Ended up barely getting the 3rd game rebubbled and none of the 4th. All this after skipping the 2nd game (which caused the misbubble in the first place!) I'm devasted to see this happen in the last section of the test ---absolutely no time to go back and fix it and all of that wasted effort (took a year off to study after getting a measly 155 in June 2009 then had to take an "absent" in October because my Grandfather died 3 days before the test.) Just a brutal bout of luck for me. I was PTing in the mid 160s but I honestly don't know if this score is worse than my original 155?? How horrible would that look...even though LSU law doesn't average...I can pretty much guarantee no scholarship $$$ and if I take the test again in Feb. it will be so late it may not matter. SO cancel or keep?! It counts towards my 3 tries either way I only have 1 left. God I don't know if I can go through all of this again :(

If you mis bubble and they agree0 they will give you points for the correct answers. It will take time to get the points back, so february may be too close for you to know. Since you obviously had a major mis bubble, cancelling is a good option. ( unless you left some marks on the answer sheet, it will be hard for them to notice your erasures).

If I were you, I would skip the february test and let your mind relax and take it in June. You will have to sit out a cycle, but you will come back and get all of your applications complete early and might end up with some great scholarships. Best of luck.
sleep it off and have a drink or 2. cheers!

SageD
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby SageD » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:21 am

northwood wrote:I think were starting to see the lsac's response to an increasing number of test takers. It seems every 10 tests or so, they change the difficulty level. Perhaps im wrong, but with more people wanting to take the test , and the ability to re take it 3 times, it would make sense to make it more difficult.

BTW if you go do shots. please save money for a cab.


I can see this, but it seems strange to me: I found the LR sections to be particularly easy this go around, while the already-difficult games section was exponentially more difficult.

Granted, LR plays to my strengths a lot better than the games do (I'm a philosophy guy with a lot of formal logic, but I'm terrible at organizing diagrams and such), but nonetheless this seems to hold for most people.

So if they're going to make the test more difficult, why not try to establish some consistency across the test, rather than ramping up the difficulty of the already-the-most-difficult section?

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:25 am

maybe games are easier to change? If you add some new LR question types, you will be tipping the hand of the experimental section for some future lsats, or you will be making a very unfair testing environment. Same with RC. Although they may do this, like they did on pt 47 i think ( the first time they had a comparative passage). Who knows?

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nneal2
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby nneal2 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:27 am

Thanks so much for your sincere advice. I wish I would have known about the hand-scoring if you misbubble thing....I would've left my answers the way they were and done that. I had some serious erasure marks (not sure if the computer will be able to pick up the answers or not) In the case the computer can't tell which one is the answer and which one is an erasure mark is this an automatic wrong? So unbelievable frustrating. I just cannot justify academically or financially taking ANOTHER year off. It's crazy that one misbubble can have so many detrimental consequences.

northwood wrote:
nneal2 wrote:So if you misbubbled and ask to have it handscored they will give you points for correct answers even if out of order?!? Ahh I'm so torn whether or not to cancel. Felt OK throughout the test (not great, but OK) then got to 5th section (LG for me) and realized I misbubbled literally 20 seconds before time was called. Had to erase from 14 down and try to rebubble. Ended up barely getting the 3rd game rebubbled and none of the 4th. All this after skipping the 2nd game (which caused the misbubble in the first place!) I'm devasted to see this happen in the last section of the test ---absolutely no time to go back and fix it and all of that wasted effort (took a year off to study after getting a measly 155 in June 2009 then had to take an "absent" in October because my Grandfather died 3 days before the test.) Just a brutal bout of luck for me. I was PTing in the mid 160s but I honestly don't know if this score is worse than my original 155?? How horrible would that look...even though LSU law doesn't average...I can pretty much guarantee no scholarship $$$ and if I take the test again in Feb. it will be so late it may not matter. SO cancel or keep?! It counts towards my 3 tries either way I only have 1 left. God I don't know if I can go through all of this again :(

If you mis bubble and they agree0 they will give you points for the correct answers. It will take time to get the points back, so february may be too close for you to know. Since you obviously had a major mis bubble, cancelling is a good option. ( unless you left some marks on the answer sheet, it will be hard for them to notice your erasures).

If I were you, I would skip the february test and let your mind relax and take it in June. You will have to sit out a cycle, but you will come back and get all of your applications complete early and might end up with some great scholarships. Best of luck.
sleep it off and have a drink or 2. cheers!

dchangd
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby dchangd » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:29 am

New member here. Any advice would be appreciated.

I began studying for December's LSAT on October 2. I knew nothing about the LSAT beforehand, and like any test I've ever taken in life, I assumed with my hardcore study habits, I could cram any and all relevant information in the two months and score in the lower 170's. I read through both Powerscore Bibles and a couple practice tests in the first month and began doing nothing but practice tests in November. With two "Books of 10" and eight recent individual PTs (53-60), I was basically averaging 5-6 practice tests a week. Things were going well in the beginning. I was averaging a 167 on the early PTs with a high of 174, but then when I moved on to the recent tests I noticed a huge difference in difficulty. I averaged a 164 for all eight of these with a high of 168. In fact, it wasn't until the final week that I moved up to the recent ones, so the drop in score was not good for my confidence leading up to Saturday morning.

During the final week, I took a week's vacation from work and crammed in the last of my material for 10 hours a day. I thought it was something I could force into my memory. But I realized that LSAT is about adapting to a new method of reading and thinking. This isn't something that can be forced in two months. You need adequate time to develop these skills. By Friday I had given up any hope of ever scoring a 170. I was resigned to scoring a 162-164. I improved not an ounce during the final week, which included over 50 hours of studying.

I had no desire to take the test today (well, yesterday). I knew I needed another 1-2 months to get where I needed to be. I badly wanted to postpone it, but since everyone says February's exams are useless for applying for this cycle, I pretty much had no option. So I took it.

I still never got the timing down. I had to guess on two LR questions in section 1, three RC questions, one LR question in section 3, and because of the mindfuck that was Logic Games, five questions in that section. Based on this and feeling pretty normal/somewhat confident about my other answer choices, I figured I missed at least 20 questions and at most 25. With a generous curve this will put me anywhere in the 161-164 range.

Now, here's my problem. A 161 is will probably get me into the law school I hoped to attend (Top 50). But I don't think I'll ever live down the nagging feeling that maybe not everything is achievable... that there are some things in this world that no matter how hard you work, are out of reach. I honestly feel like I failed. Not so much because of the final result, but because I made zero improvement during the final month and couldn't come close to a goal I had set for myself.

So do I forget about it, get into law school, and never think about it again? Or do I cancel the score, study the RIGHT way the next two months and devour every ounce of relevant material, get my timing down, read The Economist an hour a day, and aim for that illustrious 170 I've always wanted?? And is a 170 even attainable for me? Did I study the completely wrong way? Would two more months help me? Would cancelling be stupid if in two months I'm just as likely to get a 164?

At this point, it's not even about getting a score that will get me into law school. Is about finishing what I had planned on doing. But I have absolutely zero confidence at this point. This past week killed me. I went into this whole thing thinking I was a pretty smart person and could get any score... but by Friday, the day before the test, I pretty much concluded that I may not be that smart, and my ceiling was reached six weeks ago.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:30 am

nnneal: if the computer thinks you have 2 answers for 1 question its autaomatically wrong/
why cant you take time off? I took off 3 years from the end of my master degree to when i will be startiung school in the fall. It sucks, but if you really want law school- another year off will be better. Although if you really cant wait, you will have to take the feb test and hope for the best.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:38 am

d changed:
Its up to you, but if I were you, I would keep the score if this was your first test, and you have no cancels. Dont rush law school. it will be there forever and its not going away. It sounds like you have a lot of potential to do well on this. The better you do on this, the more doors that will open for you, and the greater the likelihood of getting more scholarship money.

You cant cram for this test. There is no knowledge to learn, only strategies, time and section management, in addition to mental enduarance. You need to put the time and energy into it ( many people study for 4 or more months for this). Everyone does have a ceiling. It could be 150, 160s or 170s. You will need to do more tests to figure it out. The only way to do this is to prep for feb or june ( june would give you more time to hit the ceiilng and give you time to recharge your brain). If you give yourself 3 hours a day, 6 days a week for prep you should see significant gains over a 3 to 4 month period.

do some more prep. Then you will see what your ceiling is. Then you will know if you have reached your full lsat potential yet or not.

best of luck.

SageD
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby SageD » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:50 am

Quick question: does anyone know if PT 58 (Sept 2009) is considered particularly easy? Has a major change in difficulty occurred since then?

dchangd
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby dchangd » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:52 am

I guess I'm basically looking for one of these two responses:

1.) "Face it, dude. You peaked at 164. That's your threshold. You studied both Bibles and 28 practice tests. You did as much as any other person taking the LSAT, if not more. Regardless if you learn it in six months or two, it produces the same result. Scoring in the 170s requires a certain characteristic, and you don't possess it. If you cancel your Dec score and retake it in February, you will score no better than a 165."

2.) "You studied all wrong. You crammed nine tests in the final week. Of course you didn't improve. With another two months you should be able to understand the concepts better, notice patterns quicker, read and understand dense passages faster, finish all sections in under 35 minutes, and improve your score by 4-5 points."

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:57 am

sage: pts 58 is part of the newer tests. Similar difficulty as the oct exam ( didnt take todays test)

dchanged:
a 164 is better than 88% of all test takers. Statistically, you are right, you probably have peaked. However if you feel you can do better, keep your score and sign up for the feb test. Tell the schools you are applying to start looking at the score ( if its at or above their medians). Circle the last week that you can get a refund. If you find that you havent increased your pt average to 170 by then, then you have peaked. If you have, then you havent found your ceiling yet.

im sure if you devoted years to this, then you will eventually get to mastery levels. But thats not practical. Do as best you can witin your time constraints of starting law school. IF you want to go in fall 2011- you have until feb. If you are okay with starting in the fall 2012- then keep the score and sign up for june. If you havent made any major leaps by may, then you know for sure you hit your peak

brobrah
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby brobrah » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:04 am

I think 5-6 months is the golden number to hit your max potential for LSAT. You don't train for a marathon right before the race by running for 16 hours a day. I think 10 hours of lsat in a day would burn out anyones brain and is not productive. There is no memorization for this test. Knowing the proper method is only half the test, the other half of the test is getting the speed to be able to plow the easy questions to leave plenty of time to work out the hard questions. This speed is only gained by slowly acclimatizing yourself over time. You really have to get into the "lsat mindset" to be hitting the 170s.

Since you only put two months in I would say go for a retake. But try not to "cram" for it as seriously as before. Supplement your study by reading school textbooks, journals, science articles etc, basically anything that isn't written for the layman. But make it something that interests you so you can keep with it but still learn stuff along the way. I think lsatblog has some good suggestions for books on argumentation that might be interesting. It might not have anything directly relevant to the lsat but for me it seemed that getting back into school this fall and putting my mind to work made the intellectual challenge of the test seem more "at home."

testmachine45
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby testmachine45 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:30 am

how do i ensure my test has been cancelled?

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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby testmachine45 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:41 am

dchangd wrote:I guess I'm basically looking for one of these two responses:

1.) "Face it, dude. You peaked at 164. That's your threshold. You studied both Bibles and 28 practice tests. You did as much as any other person taking the LSAT, if not more. Regardless if you learn it in six months or two, it produces the same result. Scoring in the 170s requires a certain characteristic, and you don't possess it. If you cancel your Dec score and retake it in February, you will score no better than a 165."

2.) "You studied all wrong. You crammed nine tests in the final week. Of course you didn't improve. With another two months you should be able to understand the concepts better, notice patterns quicker, read and understand dense passages faster, finish all sections in under 35 minutes, and improve your score by 4-5 points."


dude i took october lsat with 2 months studying like you, and got low-mid sixties practice tests, with a high of 171.

then studied two more months and improved drastically with timing and accuracy, which are of course related on this test. so my score was now high 160s low 170s average.

i just took dec and had to cancel cuz i just know i got fucked, but i consider this an outlier difficult exam.

but im sure with two more months sudying ill be able to do better on even an exam like dec 2010.

point is if you want that 170 and uve only studied tw o months, its in your reach.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:41 pm

test machine:
go on the LSAC website and look under the LSAT tab. you will be able to find the form. Mail it in, or fax it. You have 6 days from the test date to get it mailed there.

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confusedlawyer
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby confusedlawyer » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:44 pm

June and this test I feel like I didn't do enough to score what I was hoping for. I thought if it was anything similar in difficulty to October 170 would have been more than realistic, but tricky LR, not bubbling an answer, 2 Logic games that were very tough and time consuming, plus the tooth decay comparative passage, could be a bad result.

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confusedlawyer
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby confusedlawyer » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:45 pm

Not cancelling though I'm confident in at least a -13 curve, -12 or harsher would be straight bull$h!t.

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luckyme
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby luckyme » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:57 pm

better to have 2 cancels or negative lsat trend?

jwzp
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby jwzp » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:00 pm

.
Last edited by jwzp on Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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smartblonde87
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby smartblonde87 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:10 pm

So this is a complete mess and I feel like I sound like I'm making excuses but I'm really not. :(

I took the LSAT at UDC and the room was sweltering hot. The proctors said there was nothing to do about the over 80*e room that we were testing in., despite multiple complaints - apparently this has been a problem in the past at UDC as well, judging by some threads on TLS. The dry heat made me nauseated and gave me a nosebleed through three different sections (I have never had a nosebleed before). Needless to say, the I didn't do well overall compared to what I normally would have done and I think I completely guessed on 3/4 of the LG section, which is usually my favorite.

I'm applying to schools this cycle (I can't put it off another year), and I have a 156 in the books, no cancellations or absences.

I retook this time because my watch stopped halfway during RC and I felt good about the rest of the test. Had I gotten half of the questions I missed in RC last year correct, I would have had a 160. Since I don't feel good about this one, I worry that I will have gotten less than a 156.

Should I cancel?

SupraVln180
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby SupraVln180 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:17 pm

nneal2 wrote:Thanks so much for your sincere advice. I wish I would have known about the hand-scoring if you misbubble thing....I would've left my answers the way they were and done that. I had some serious erasure marks (not sure if the computer will be able to pick up the answers or not) In the case the computer can't tell which one is the answer and which one is an erasure mark is this an automatic wrong? So unbelievable frustrating. I just cannot justify academically or financially taking ANOTHER year off. It's crazy that one misbubble can have so many detrimental consequences.

northwood wrote:
nneal2 wrote:So if you misbubbled and ask to have it handscored they will give you points for correct answers even if out of order?!? Ahh I'm so torn whether or not to cancel. Felt OK throughout the test (not great, but OK) then got to 5th section (LG for me) and realized I misbubbled literally 20 seconds before time was called. Had to erase from 14 down and try to rebubble. Ended up barely getting the 3rd game rebubbled and none of the 4th. All this after skipping the 2nd game (which caused the misbubble in the first place!) I'm devasted to see this happen in the last section of the test ---absolutely no time to go back and fix it and all of that wasted effort (took a year off to study after getting a measly 155 in June 2009 then had to take an "absent" in October because my Grandfather died 3 days before the test.) Just a brutal bout of luck for me. I was PTing in the mid 160s but I honestly don't know if this score is worse than my original 155?? How horrible would that look...even though LSU law doesn't average...I can pretty much guarantee no scholarship $$$ and if I take the test again in Feb. it will be so late it may not matter. SO cancel or keep?! It counts towards my 3 tries either way I only have 1 left. God I don't know if I can go through all of this again :(

If you mis bubble and they agree0 they will give you points for the correct answers. It will take time to get the points back, so february may be too close for you to know. Since you obviously had a major mis bubble, cancelling is a good option. ( unless you left some marks on the answer sheet, it will be hard for them to notice your erasures).

If I were you, I would skip the february test and let your mind relax and take it in June. You will have to sit out a cycle, but you will come back and get all of your applications complete early and might end up with some great scholarships. Best of luck.
sleep it off and have a drink or 2. cheers!




THIS IS WRONG. If you have your test hand scored, you will not get credit for out of order responses. Handscoring comes in handy only if you have eraser discrepancies, I am pretty sure on this.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:24 pm

jwzp wrote:I posted this in What are my chances? earlier, but then thought it makes more sense to post it in here. I really need some good advice...I'm suffering right now. Have no clue what to do.

Canceled Oct10 because I got sick. I took Dec10 and and am fairly certain that I underperformed--PTs averaged 163 going in, so there's a reasonable chance that I could end up between 158 and 160.

The way I see it, I have two options...

1) cancel Dec, study for 6 months, and apply next cycle with a ~165
2) Let it ride and hope that I get lucky and hit my PT average

What do I do?

I have no doubt that I can improve my score by five or more points with 6 months of studying. The clear answer for most people would be option 1, but I'm not like most TLSers. I'm 27, out of work, and I've got nothing to do for the next year. Sitting around for another year before heading to grad school sounds terrible. And coming out at 30 sounds much better than 31 for some reason.

I'm not set on one particular school at this point. Basically, my plan is to apply to the top 50 schools (I have waivers) and sift through the ones that accept me.

NOT URM
LSAC GPA: 3.80
High-quality WE
Great recs
Raised in poverty, and so forth

Advice?


Since you allready have a cancel due to sickness, and you sat for the test. you have one sitting left. Right now you have 2 sittings and no score. Your pt average was 163, and you think you have a 158-160 on this test. I say keep this score, and use it to apply. If you dont like the score, or how your cycle goes, take the test in June and apply next year. You have a fantastic gpa, great recs and a good story. I think those will help you. You dont want to go cancel, cancel and bomb on your 3rd attempt. ( allergies can be an issue in spring) Worst case scenario is you apply next year.

Try to get a pt job somewhere so you can start saving money. It will help you crush the witner and lsat blues.




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