Cancelling the LSAT

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:39 pm

DigAPony wrote:Advice Needed

My situation: I had been scoring really well on practice tests, averaging in the high 170s for the month prior to the test. I am looking at going to a top 5 school.

Saturday just did not feel like it went well. Felt very unconfident throughout the entire test and while I usually have no issue with time, I was rushing at the end of most sections. However, I did finish every section.

I am not sure if other people have had similar situations where they thought they had done well below their typical test (I would not be surprised if I scored 165) but in the end scored near their normal range? Or if I feel this unconfident, should I cancel so I can keep the hope of a top school alive?

This was my first time taking the test, so if I cancel this score I would have to postpone law school a year.


Most of the time, peole score within their ranges. However, if you had to rush to complete each section, the chances of scorring worse increase. With your target score, and school list, you need to have a really high score to be competitive. If you are absolutely sure that you scored below your target score- cancel. As it is, you will be kind of late for HYS, as a lot of top canidates apply there in september/ october. Your best bet at being accepted is to take it in June, and turn your applications in early september. Use this time to get your letters of recommendation ready. If you are okay with losing out on HYSCCN, then keep the score. Otherwise, a cancel is a good bet. Confidence is key on this beast.

teamvictory
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby teamvictory » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:54 pm

Same plea for advice:

I'm aiming for HYS. I have a 3.8 from Harvard undergrad and a couple years of work experience.

Should I cancel this LSAT? I had been scoring 171 - 180 on previous prep tests, but on Saturday the LG section (my weakness) OWNED me. I probably guessed on ~10 questions in games 2 and 3, and I don't think the guesses were more educated than 1/4.

I felt okay about the rest of the test, but there's a chance there were a few wrong answers sprinkled in the LR and RC sections--enough to bring me below the 170 mark.

This is my first sitting (I have an absence from Jan. 2009), so canceling would mean I'd need to delay my app until next cycle.

Le sigh. All and any advice much appreciated.

Thanks!

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:56 pm

since you want HYS, and you guessed that many on the section. cancel. You need to have full confidence to get a 170+. Keeping the score with that many guesses, plus knowing you most likely didnt score a -0 on the other 3 sections is not a good idea.

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CmonSD
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby CmonSD » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:10 pm

I have no idea how I did. :shock: I did great on the first two RC passages, the comparative reading killed me and I briefly skimmed the fourth passage and guessed from there (not unusual though). The first LR I had about four questions left to quickly skim during the last few minutes. Killed the games and the other LR section. I went into it testing around 164. I have an absent, 156, 158 hoping to break 160. Should I cancel even though I can't retake?
I average -10 RC/ -8-10 LR/ -0 LG .

Nonok
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby Nonok » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:12 pm

CmonSD wrote:I have no idea how I did. :shock: I did great on the first two RC passages, the comparative reading killed me and I briefly skimmed the fourth passage and guessed from there (not unusual though). The first LR I had about four questions left to quickly skim during the last few minutes. Killed the games and the other LR section. I went into it testing around 164. I have an absent, 156, 158 hoping to break 160. Should I cancel even though I can't retake?
I average -10 RC/ -8-10 LR/ -0 LG .

I wouldn't cancel. The curve should work to your advantage and it sounds like you probably will end up above 160. There were only 5 questions on the comparative reading if i remember correctly (maybe 7). Looks like you'll do slightly worse than your average on RC, better on LR, and the same on LG. With needing to miss -30 or so to get 160 you should end up around 165.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:15 pm

Keep the score. sounds like you performed within your pt range, and maybe better. congrats!

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CmonSD
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby CmonSD » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:20 pm

Wow! I walked out of there so beat up I haven't been able to rationalize anything. I'll be thrilled with a 160 so thank you!

Credit
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby Credit » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Also in the same boat as all of you, can't decided to keep the score or not. Its my third time around so this is it as far as my retakes go. I have a 166, 169, and was hoping to break into the 170s on this one (PT average around 171 and maxed out at 176 last thursday). I can see my actual score on this one being anywhere form 165 to 171. My gut reaction is that I didn't do as well as I could, even though I never outright guessed on any question, and I can't decide if that's just LSAT postmortem freakout or genuine self analysis. RC seemed good, LR seemed like it had some trickier than normal questions, and even though I completed LG with time to spare, stained glass and conferences were no joke, so who knows.

My current gpa and scores are very borderline for my target schools, at which I got primarily waitlisted last cycle. So I guess my question is, how bad would it be for my lsat to go down? Should I take the chance that did the same or better than my last LSAT? What would you do TLS?

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kkklick
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby kkklick » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:39 pm

Credit wrote:Also in the same boat as all of you, can't decided to keep the score or not. Its my third time around so this is it as far as my retakes go. I have a 166, 169, and was hoping to break into the 170s on this one (PT average around 171 and maxed out at 176 last thursday). I can see my actual score on this one being anywhere form 165 to 171. My gut reaction is that I didn't do as well as I could, even though I never outright guessed on any question, and I can't decide if that's just LSAT postmortem freakout or genuine self analysis. RC seemed good, LR seemed like it had some trickier than normal questions, and even though I completed LG with time to spare, stained glass and conferences were no joke, so who knows.

My current gpa and scores are very borderline for my target schools, at which I got primarily waitlisted last cycle. So I guess my question is, how bad would it be for my lsat to go down? Should I take the chance that did the same or better than my last LSAT? What would you do TLS?

I would say to those who already got a high score on an easier test, probably cancel. But if you think you might have gotten lucky ride it out.

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3|ink
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby 3|ink » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:41 pm

Shit is not good when the cancelling LSAT thread has more pages than the waiting thread.

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kkklick
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby kkklick » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:47 pm

lol didn't notice that.

pineappledazzler
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby pineappledazzler » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:34 pm

I just took the December 2010 test on Saturday and initially wouldn't consider cancelling but am having second thoughts...
I took my first PT cold in September and scored a 164, then studied consistently for about 3 months and jumped to score in the low 170s and eventually to be consistently scoring between 173-178 (with one perfect 180 thrown in). I took 30+ PTs during this time.
I was aiming for a 175+ because I go to school in the UK despite being a US resident/citizen and have no GPA, and am aiming for a T14 (and preferably T6) law school, so the LSAT will be really important. The only "grades" I'll have are at the end of my final year of college (after I've already applied and been accepted/rejected everywhere) but I'm predicted to be getting a 1/2:1.
On the day of the test I went in feeling pretty confident, and throughout the first 4 sections kept it up and feel I performed as I did on all those PTs. However, LG was awful - I usually go -0/1 on LG, with time to spare, but as seems to have happened for so many people, I didn't have time to finish - think games 1/4 were fine, game 2 (glass) I worked it out but am unsure about one answer, and then game 3 - i answered 1 of the 5 questions, made an educated guess at another, and had 30 seconds left to randomly bubble in a letter for the last 3. Considering I usually do so well on LG, I'm afraid that getting a -4/5/even 6 (worst case scenario) would decrease my score to the very low 170s or even maybe lower. I'm not sure what to do here - because I'm not applying until next fall, and I took the test early due to a scheduling conflict for Feb/June, but could rearrange a LOT academically to retake in June...should I cancel? I'm hesitant to do so, but then again, many of my goal schools do average...I've just gone from firmly wait-and-see to unsure...

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:57 pm

pineappledazzler wrote:I just took the December 2010 test on Saturday and initially wouldn't consider cancelling but am having second thoughts...
I took my first PT cold in September and scored a 164, then studied consistently for about 3 months and jumped to score in the low 170s and eventually to be consistently scoring between 173-178 (with one perfect 180 thrown in). I took 30+ PTs during this time.
I was aiming for a 175+ because I go to school in the UK despite being a US resident/citizen and have no GPA, and am aiming for a T14 (and preferably T6) law school, so the LSAT will be really important. The only "grades" I'll have are at the end of my final year of college (after I've already applied and been accepted/rejected everywhere) but I'm predicted to be getting a 1/2:1.
On the day of the test I went in feeling pretty confident, and throughout the first 4 sections kept it up and feel I performed as I did on all those PTs. However, LG was awful - I usually go -0/1 on LG, with time to spare, but as seems to have happened for so many people, I didn't have time to finish - think games 1/4 were fine, game 2 (glass) I worked it out but am unsure about one answer, and then game 3 - i answered 1 of the 5 questions, made an educated guess at another, and had 30 seconds left to randomly bubble in a letter for the last 3. Considering I usually do so well on LG, I'm afraid that getting a -4/5/even 6 (worst case scenario) would decrease my score to the very low 170s or even maybe lower. I'm not sure what to do here - because I'm not applying until next fall, and I took the test early due to a scheduling conflict for Feb/June, but could rearrange a LOT academically to retake in June...should I cancel? I'm hesitant to do so, but then again, many of my goal schools do average...I've just gone from firmly wait-and-see to unsure...



I would keep the score. It sounds as though on LG you guessed on 5 questions. Thats not bad for one section. Especially since the other 4 sections went smoothly for you, you should be able to compensate for the one game that shall not be named. Due to the fact that you took a lot of pts, and scored very well on them, I would say that you should be allright for a 170+. Email the schools you are interested in about your grade situtation. They will know morea bout that topic than us.

Keep the score. Worst case scenario is that you have to re-take. I think you will be happy with the outcomes, but I can not make a guarenteee ( im not a psychic, nor do i pretend to be one). Best of luck with the rest of your year and your cycle.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:59 pm

Credit wrote:Also in the same boat as all of you, can't decided to keep the score or not. Its my third time around so this is it as far as my retakes go. I have a 166, 169, and was hoping to break into the 170s on this one (PT average around 171 and maxed out at 176 last thursday). I can see my actual score on this one being anywhere form 165 to 171. My gut reaction is that I didn't do as well as I could, even though I never outright guessed on any question, and I can't decide if that's just LSAT postmortem freakout or genuine self analysis. RC seemed good, LR seemed like it had some trickier than normal questions, and even though I completed LG with time to spare, stained glass and conferences were no joke, so who knows.

My current gpa and scores are very borderline for my target schools, at which I got primarily waitlisted last cycle. So I guess my question is, how bad would it be for my lsat to go down? Should I take the chance that did the same or better than my last LSAT? What would you do TLS?


Cancel the test- if you are not 100% sure you did as well, if not better than the 169. You dont want to go down, especially after going up. If you were to score a 166 or lower, that would make the 169 become an outlier in the eyes of the admissions team. Your pt average is a 171. A 169 on the real deal is still very well, and is to be expected. just my 2 cents.

dchangd
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby dchangd » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:21 pm

what about cancelling and retaking in February if you absolutely want to apply for this cycle? Is this unheard of? I know everyone says apply early, never take the LSAT in February, etc. But what if you don't have a lot of options?

If I cancel/retake in two months and absolutely kill it, then are my chances still as good as everyone else? Does a 3.40/170 student who applies March 15 have the same chances of admittance/scholarships as a 3.40/162 who applies in January? Does he look like a better candidate? Worse candidate?

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:03 pm

youre a better canidate, but the problem has to do with seats/ money left. Those numbers should get you in, and in with money if you apply early, or before new years. However, once the seats get filled, the competition increases. If there are 2 seats left, and you are left with a 175, 172 and a 170. gpas and the rest of the app being equal, you are out. It sucks. You will be waitlisted at a lot more schools than you should be. Same for scholarships.

thats why its better to wait until fall 2011 to apply if you are going to re take in feb.

Miracle
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby Miracle » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:15 pm

northwood wrote:youre a better canidate, but the problem has to do with seats/ money left. Those numbers should get you in, and in with money if you apply early, or before new years. However, once the seats get filled, the competition increases. If there are 2 seats left, and you are left with a 175, 172 and a 170. gpas and the rest of the app being equal, you are out. It sucks. You will be waitlisted at a lot more schools than you should be. Same for scholarships.

thats why its better to wait until fall 2011 to apply if you are going to re take in feb.


maybe he doesn't want the money ;)

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:17 pm

true. but if you get waitlisted, when you could be accepted from the get go, you will have less time to make afinal decision, get your finances in order, get a place to stay, pack and move. It can be done, but why do it if you dont have to?

Miracle
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby Miracle » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:24 pm

northwood wrote:true. but if you get waitlisted, when you could be accepted from the get go, you will have less time to make afinal decision, get your finances in order, get a place to stay, pack and move. It can be done, but why do it if you dont have to?


Hey, if Georgetown called me a day before classes begin, trust me I will find a place to live, get my finances in order, definitely have everything packed, and start running to Georgetown ;)

dchangd
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby dchangd » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:34 pm

thanks for the help, guys. I don't get it though. What's the point of the February LSAT if the scores are basically useless for that cycle? I guess I'll keep my low-160 score and apply wherever.

Waiting a year isn't an option for me. I'm 28 and would rather not start law school when I'm 30.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:37 pm

its probably to get people off waitlists, or to try to negotiate for more money. Well, people do take the test in february- then try to re take in June if possible. The downside is you dont see your scores and weak areas, so you have to study everything just as intensely.

salleythan
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby salleythan » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:40 pm

northwood wrote:
salleythan wrote:Was scoring in the mid160s on pts but completely BOMBED the logic games section and not sure how to gauge myself on the other sections..

Wondering if its a better option to cancel and retake even though I already have an absence...

I'm looking at

absence ---> cancel ----> score --->(possibly retake if necessary)

or

absence ---> low score ----> better score...

Any thoughts? Completely torn... Anything would help!



kevin p
Its a very tough call. Since you have an absence and a cancel its not as bad as a cancel cancel, or an absence absence. If the tests were given consecutively, you could easily write it as being unprepared for the absence, and ill, or nerves for the cancel. If there is some time, it be a bit longer of a stretch, but its still could be believable ( still within a year- if its a year, you would have to say that you werent sure law was for you, was absent, did some other things for a bit, then realized you wanted law- started prep later than you d like, and cancelled or something like that).

Do your target schools average? If they do, then cancel. IF not, i say keep the score. That way you can better gague your stregnths and weaknesses, especially in a testing environment ( did your nerves mess you up on section 1? was the pressure a bigger factor for games?( a lot of people put extra pressure to get a -0)? Was fatigue a big factor at the end? ) that way you can make sure to incorporate this into your retake prep- thats partly why i like to say keep the score- the other reason being, is that if you did a lot of prep, you should be able to score within or very close to your pt average. hope this helps.



Thanks so much for your input!! The absence was a very big stretch, a year to be exact! I was hoping to apply for this cycle, but my target school does average - unless I request they take the higher score through an addendum. I was adequately prepared but could have practice a lot more - only took 5 pts within the two week period and was scoring consistently mid 160s but also had never completely bombed the games section like I did on the Dec LSAT! Best case-scenario I could have scored around my pts... but at the same time I feel like I could have just as easily scored in the upper 150s. Is it better to just wait and retake, and apply early next cycle with a cancel and higher score in hopes of scholarship money?? It's such a wildcard, not sure what my score will be!

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:46 pm

if you think theres a good chance at scoring in your pt range, keep it. You can always re take it. If you keep the score you will be able to see where exactly you need some extra work. Tough call, since your top school does average. However, if you do keep it and score higher ( more than 4 points) than you should explain it in an addendum. Applying early next cylce will always increase your odds at being accepted and with money, but its still not a given ( medians could rise).

You can always put some applications out and see how it shakes out. If you know you will be applying next cycle- then dont bother. Its up to you. If it was me, id keep it. but i cant make the decision for you. its just too important.

pineappledazzler
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby pineappledazzler » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:46 pm

thanks to northwood. i know my grade situation makes judging this difficult...in any event I have decided to keep the score for sure and hope for the best - I may try to organize a retake if my score is lower than a certain point, just haven't figured out what that point may be yet...

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:06 am

see what the medians are at your target schools, and try to beat them by 1 point( if possible), Dont worry about the next part of the process, ( if you are to re take or not, and when to do so. get your applications all ready ( letters, resume, personal statement, why x essays). That way you can focus on either waiting for news from schools, or your retake. If you do have to re take, and wait a cycle, you will be primed and ready to submit the first day.




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