Cancelling the LSAT

gambelda
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby gambelda » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:01 pm

smartblonde87 wrote:So this is a complete mess and I feel like I sound like I'm making excuses but I'm really not. :(

I took the LSAT at UDC and the room was sweltering hot. The proctors said there was nothing to do about the over 80*e room that we were testing in., despite multiple complaints - apparently this has been a problem in the past at UDC as well, judging by some threads on TLS. The dry heat made me nauseated and gave me a nosebleed through three different sections (I have never had a nosebleed before). Needless to say, the I didn't do well overall compared to what I normally would have done and I think I completely guessed on 3/4 of the LG section, which is usually my favorite.

I'm applying to schools this cycle (I can't put it off another year), and I have a 156 in the books, no cancellations or absences.

I retook this time because my watch stopped halfway during RC and I felt good about the rest of the test. Had I gotten half of the questions I missed in RC last year correct, I would have had a 160. Since I don't feel good about this one, I worry that I will have gotten less than a 156.

Should I cancel?


UDC WAS HORRIBLE! The heat was INSANE! How can LSAT expect us to prep for "any weather condition in a testing room"? We would have had to have been straight NAKED to feel fine there.

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luckyme
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby luckyme » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:03 pm

i am 95% sure i scored lower than in october and i'm keeping my score. I HAVE TO SEE IT.

Jerkovsky
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby Jerkovsky » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:06 pm

This is another "should I cancel or not" post:

I have been PTing consistently in the 175+ range and have taken 45+ practice tests. Whenever I finished a practice test feeling good, I would usually get -4/178.

On Saturday, for LR and RC, I felt more confident than ever before on any test.
For LG I ran out of time and had to make educated guesses on 5 questions.

By my estimates I missed between 5 and 8 questions, putting me (with a -12 or -14 curve) anywhere between 173 and 178. My goal is a 175.

Should I cancel? How would CCN look at a cancel/178 versus a 173/178?

Thanks!

p.s.: I am not applying till next cycle

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:09 pm

do you have a 178 allready? if you do, then cancel. its very hard to get a perfect score. If you think you got between a 173-178, then keep it. A 173 will set you up really nice for a lot of schools. Especially if you have a gpa over 3.6. Anythiung over 170 is golden.
congrats!

a 173/178 woud equal out to a 175.5 ( if averaged. Still a fantastic score, and very competitive for all schools)

ren2011
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby ren2011 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:11 pm

Northwood wrote:do you have a 178 allready? if you do, then cancel. its very hard to get a perfect score. If you think you got between a 173-178, then keep it. A 173 will set you up really nice for a lot of schools. Especially if you have a gpa over 3.6. Anythiung over 170 is golden.
congrats!

a 173/178 woud equal out to a 175.5 ( if averaged. Still a fantastic score, and very competitive for all schools)


Agreed. If you believe you scored in the 170s, don't waste it with a cancel. If you score on the lower end of your expectations, i.e. 173, you can always retake (if you really think you need to- with a decent GPA/softs, it's probably unnecessary to retake a 173).

jwzp
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby jwzp » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:13 pm

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Last edited by jwzp on Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jerkovsky
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby Jerkovsky » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:23 pm

Thanks a lot for the encouragement! Seems that I will be joining everybody else in the countdown till January 10th.

No, I don't have a 178, I just picked it as a potential future score (since that is about where I averaged on my last few PTs) because I am curious about how CCN would view a cancel versus a retake of a 173.

And I have a GPA of 3.5, which in the twisted world of law schools apps somehow is mediocre at best, so I need the high LSAT.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:29 pm

try lawschoolpredictor.com and lawschoolnumbers.com and see how the cycles went for both 3.5 and 173-178. That will help give you some idea of what to expect.

However, I think the more difficult tests are here to stay. I would imagine the test being as difficult for the near future than going back to the ease of the 40's. The games are becoming more of a hybrid of linear /grouping and with more chug and plug type of questions. deductions are more subtle as well, and you really need to focus on the initial setup and word choice.

RC has been more dense, and the questions more abstract. LR is also moving in that direction, in my opinion. I think LSAC has seen the trend in people prepping for 5+ months, and has raised the gauntlet to try to compensate for this. THey have collecitvely said Bring it on like donkey kong to all of the testers, especially those who take prep seriously.

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smartblonde87
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby smartblonde87 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:41 pm

Just talked to LSAC about the testing center University of DC for 12.11.10.

If the heat caused a problem for you at the testing center, you can write a formal complaint, which extends your cancellation date until they determine a solution for the problem - ranging from a letter in your file explaining the testing center conditions to a retest. Call 215.968.1001 or fax your letter to 215.968.1277.

Letter should include:
LSAC #
Date of Test
Today's Date
Test Center # (1568 for UDC)
Description of your complaint
Signature

I'm creating a new board about this. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=140888

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:54 pm

can also be used for any location

AW1
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby AW1 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:45 pm

Hi, i'm hoping for some input on my situation. i took the lsat last year with a 161. I have 3.9 and applied last cycle. I wasnt happy with my options and decided to retake this dec. after the test, i feel like i really screwed up two sections. the real logic games were really hard and the following LR section didnt go well becuase i was freaking out about the previous section. i'm wondering if i should cancel my score or just keep it.

the admissions officials usually say they look at the higher score. so I figure, the lower lsat shouldn't hurt my chances and if the score did improve, it could only help. thoughts?

also, would sending in my apps without asking for the schools to hold it until dec score release lessen the impact of a potentially lower score?

thanks for your help!

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:55 pm

if you think you messed up on 2 sections, then cancelling is a decent option. Messing one section still gives you some wiggle room. Messing up half of the sections doesnt give you any. With a 3.9, your gpa is above the 75%. You are a reverse splitter. Check out schools where your lsat is at or a point or 2 below median, and give it a shot. If your score goes lower this time around, it will negatively affect you, especially if you are more than 3 points lower. ( your score band goes 3 points above and below your actual score- this means that if you were given another lsat- same curve, you should expect to score 3 points better, or 3 points worse, and it would be perfectly normal.

Send in your applications, and tell them not to wait to see your results. Most schools wont deem you complete until all scores are reported. But some will go a head and put you in the review pile if you tell them to.

In order to decide what to do, write out how you think you did, best case scenario and worst case scenario for all 4 graded sections. THen find the cooresponding raw score on curves that are -11 -12, -13 and -14. ( best and worst case scenario for the curve) If you are okay with the best and worst case scenarios- keep it. If you dont like it, and feeel you did more on the bad side, cancel. hope this helps

bubbles87
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby bubbles87 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:36 am

northwood! plz help! u are doing such a good job advising! (u should get paid for this heh heh)

should i cancel?? ive canceled already once before last year. i took the test a few days ago and do not feel comfortable at all. the first 3 sections were do-able and then the 4th section (LG STAINED GLASS WINDOWSSSSSS FML) i tanked. for sure. i blind guessed on 6 and the other ones, i was kind of filling in in a daze. i feel violated. then:: during the 5th section it was all slow going. i was angry and trying to recover. i think i fully recovered around #17 after giving myself a silent pep talk.

should i cancel again?? i know it looks bad to cancel twice but does it look worse to cancel once take a bad score then get a better score. if i cancel, or get a bad score (which i think is VERY likely), im planning to quit my job to devote 6 months to pure LSAT enjoyment.

my first LSAT i took cold was 154. i then scored anywhere from 157-168 in practice. my average was around 162. i have a GPA of 3.65. i want to go to an awesome law school. :)

thanks!!

bubbles87
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby bubbles87 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:37 am

P.S. this "to cancel or not to cancel" dilemna is driving me CRAZY :shock:

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:32 am

with a cancel allready, its generally better to keep the second test. That way, you at least have a reportable testing score. However, it seems as though the LGs made you mess up a section and a half. Were you able to double check your responses to the last section? HOw many prep tests did you take? Sometimes if you prep, intuitin takes over, an helps you out. It sounds as though you will be taking the test in june regardless. I would keep the score, and use it as a baseline. When you get your score report, go over each section and wrong/ right answer and figure out why you did what you did. Then drill questin types you got wrong- and do more prep tests.

2 cancels are pretty bad. You never know, you might have recovered better than you thought. Keep it, keep your job, and prep for the june test. Use the time now until you get your score back to get all of your letters of recommendation out see what essays you need to write for schools, and to start brainstorming them. That way you can get the application stuff started, and be able to start visiting schools in the summer,and relax.

hope this helps

salleythan
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby salleythan » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:36 am

Was scoring in the mid160s on pts but completely BOMBED the logic games section and not sure how to gauge myself on the other sections..

Wondering if its a better option to cancel and retake even though I already have an absence...

I'm looking at

absence ---> cancel ----> score --->(possibly retake if necessary)

or

absence ---> low score ----> better score...

Any thoughts? Completely torn... Anything would help!

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glewz
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby glewz » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:39 am

salleythan wrote:Was scoring in the mid160s on pts but completely BOMBED the logic games section and not sure how to gauge myself on the other sections..

Wondering if its a better option to cancel and retake even though I already have an absence...

I'm looking at

absence ---> cancel ----> score --->(possibly retake if necessary)

or

absence ---> low score ----> better score...

Any thoughts? Completely torn... Anything would help!



Tough call. I'd recommend the former.

salleythan
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby salleythan » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:43 am

Do you think that an absence and a cancel can be explained?

I know theres a possibility that I could have still scored around mid 160s based on the other sections.....

But I also run the risk of getting a score maybe even in the mid 150s... worst case scenario. Couldn't finish two of the four games and games are usually my strongest....

I just dont want an absence and a cancel to hurt my chances. In that case I might opt to just take a possible lower score and retake...

any options??

jwzp
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby jwzp » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:50 am

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Last edited by jwzp on Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KevinP
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby KevinP » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:53 am

I really need your recommendations.

I've already taken the LSAT in Sept. 09 and scored in the low 160s.

Took it in October but decided to cancel.

Took it in December but COMPLETELY f'ed up the games. Even with a ridiculously generous curve like -14, I'm still screwed. The LG section is usually my given and a harder LR/RC section just translates into a couple more questions missed for me but the harder LG this time around translated into probably -7 LG questions missed.

So my question is, how bad would it be if I have a score in the low 160s and 2 cancels? I should be able to take the test next December (Dec. of 2011) because of the 2 year timeline (first test taken was in Sept. of 09). The state school I'm applying to averages.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:40 am

it wouldnt be the greatest, but it would look a ton better than a decrease into the 150s. If you know your state school averages, then cancel it. If you were to keep it, your average would decrease. Even if your next test were to be a170, your average would still be lower than a 160( using round numbers) 170 = 175. a 160, 156 170 would = 158 +170= 174. Every little point counts, as you are much aware.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:46 am

salleythan wrote:Was scoring in the mid160s on pts but completely BOMBED the logic games section and not sure how to gauge myself on the other sections..

Wondering if its a better option to cancel and retake even though I already have an absence...

I'm looking at

absence ---> cancel ----> score --->(possibly retake if necessary)

or

absence ---> low score ----> better score...

Any thoughts? Completely torn... Anything would help!



kevin p
Its a very tough call. Since you have an absence and a cancel its not as bad as a cancel cancel, or an absence absence. If the tests were given consecutively, you could easily write it as being unprepared for the absence, and ill, or nerves for the cancel. If there is some time, it be a bit longer of a stretch, but its still could be believable ( still within a year- if its a year, you would have to say that you werent sure law was for you, was absent, did some other things for a bit, then realized you wanted law- started prep later than you d like, and cancelled or something like that).

Do your target schools average? If they do, then cancel. IF not, i say keep the score. That way you can better gague your stregnths and weaknesses, especially in a testing environment ( did your nerves mess you up on section 1? was the pressure a bigger factor for games?( a lot of people put extra pressure to get a -0)? Was fatigue a big factor at the end? ) that way you can make sure to incorporate this into your retake prep- thats partly why i like to say keep the score- the other reason being, is that if you did a lot of prep, you should be able to score within or very close to your pt average. hope this helps.
Last edited by northwood on Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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northwood
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby northwood » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:51 am

[quote="quote]


The whole issue here is how the specific adcom at whatever school you plan to apply to will judge your score history. We can speculate all day but, in the end, it's not really all that useful to stress over it--since you can't 'know' how an adcom will respond. For maximizing the probability that you'll get the outcome you want, you should consider calling some of the schools and talking with them about it. See if you can get a no-bs adcom member on the phone and ask them for advice.

This being TLS, though, I feel that I must add to the debate: I tend to think that having one, high score is better than having a mediocre score anywhere in your file. So, if you have no problem postponing to next cycle, and, most importantly, you're positive that you will score higher in the future, then I would suggest that you take Absence, Cancel, High Score. Then make sure you include a brief addendum with your apps explaining your situation (severe test anxiety, test-day illness, or whatever the case was).

Absence, 155, 16~ is not attractive.

Do not worry about the 3 LSATs every 2 years limit: it is not difficult to get sponsored for a dreaded 4th LSAT.

Keep in mind, I'm in the same situation you're in--I'm contemplating two Cancels, then retaking in June. (Sorry Northwood, I can't stop obsessing over it).[/quote]

hey jzwerp. no worries. Its a big thing to think about. How far off from your pt average do you think you did per section? If its only 1 section thats bugging you, there is a chance that you were able to rally around it with your other sections. If its causing sleepless nights,a nd you know you are going to re-take anyways, save yourself the stress, and cancel. Write out your best and worst case scenarios for each section and the curve ( from -11 to -14) and see how you match up. You can find lsat curve breakdowns on lsat blog. *( google it). That will help give you a good idea of what score range you are looking at. IF you want, average your best and worst case scenarios. if its close to your pt average, or within you pt range. keep it. If not, cancel. hope this helps. Once you make a decision celebrate, and take time off to relax your brain.

DigAPony
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby DigAPony » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:00 am

Advice Needed

My situation: I had been scoring really well on practice tests, averaging in the high 170s for the month prior to the test. I am looking at going to a top 5 school.

Saturday just did not feel like it went well. Felt very unconfident throughout the entire test and while I usually have no issue with time, I was rushing at the end of most sections. However, I did finish every section.

I am not sure if other people have had similar situations where they thought they had done well below their typical test (I would not be surprised if I scored 165) but in the end scored near their normal range? Or if I feel this unconfident, should I cancel so I can keep the hope of a top school alive?

This was my first time taking the test, so if I cancel this score I would have to postpone law school a year.

Nonok
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Re: Cancelling the December LSAT

Postby Nonok » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:25 am

DigAPony wrote:Advice Needed

My situation: I had been scoring really well on practice tests, averaging in the high 170s for the month prior to the test. I am looking at going to a top 5 school.

Saturday just did not feel like it went well. Felt very unconfident throughout the entire test and while I usually have no issue with time, I was rushing at the end of most sections. However, I did finish every section.

I am not sure if other people have had similar situations where they thought they had done well below their typical test (I would not be surprised if I scored 165) but in the end scored near their normal range? Or if I feel this unconfident, should I cancel so I can keep the hope of a top school alive?

This was my first time taking the test, so if I cancel this score I would have to postpone law school a year.

Canceling is much better than getting a bad score if you're trying to go to HYS.




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