Both are 100% conditional games. I don't have the LG Bible with me at the moment, so I'm not sure what the proper name is. Maybe "InOut"?
I think the Firs, Yews, and Spruces game from Superprep B that I just did is pretty similar to both of these.
I don't know how to draw a diagram for these. I just do the conditional chains (If R>T, M), then make deductions to combine them. Then I just use and modify these chains to attack the questions.
It's all good and well until you get to a question like #12 (PT 58, S3, Game 2): "Which...pair...is such....at least one....volunteers?" I had to try out almost every answer choice to find the right one.
The Manhattan LSAT logic chains are very, very, very unhelpful. I would never trust myself to draw lines like that under test day pressures, and I can't draw straight lines anyway.
I wonder if there's a quicker way to solve these that doesn't involve drawing straight lines?
PT 58, S3 Game 2 & 4

 Posts: 151
 Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:55 pm
Re: PT 58, S3 Game 2 & 4
R>M
~M>~R
M>T
~T>~M
~S>V
~V>S
~R>L
~L>R
T>~F and ~V
F or V>~T
We can deduce that at least one of V/S is in and at least one of L/R is in. *Keep in mind that R IN would set off a number of triggers, but I personally wouldn’t bother writing out any combinations. That’s the best we can do.
12. Start off by using your hypos to eliminate answers. If any diagrams have both people out, then cross that choice off. Assuming there are no hypos to help out, then draw out a hypo for each choice that places both people out (or keep it in your head). If you drew out the conditions neatly like you see above, then it should be quick. We have no number limitations (e.g. “4 of 7 must be selected”) so we should be looking for something that directly violates the rules.
(A) If F and T are out then M is out and R is out and L is in. This doesn’t seem to violate anything so move on.
(B) If L is out then R is in and M is in. So L and M cannot BOTH be out of the game, we need at least one of them in.
However, you can actually answer this without any testing if you realized that at least one of L/R is in. Since R triggers M, which also which triggers T…
So at least L is in… or if not then R, M, and T are in, as well as ~F and ~V (which triggers S in).
I think the key to these games is just lining up the rules neatly and accurately so you can see make quick inferences. The rest is up to your brain.
~M>~R
M>T
~T>~M
~S>V
~V>S
~R>L
~L>R
T>~F and ~V
F or V>~T
We can deduce that at least one of V/S is in and at least one of L/R is in. *Keep in mind that R IN would set off a number of triggers, but I personally wouldn’t bother writing out any combinations. That’s the best we can do.
12. Start off by using your hypos to eliminate answers. If any diagrams have both people out, then cross that choice off. Assuming there are no hypos to help out, then draw out a hypo for each choice that places both people out (or keep it in your head). If you drew out the conditions neatly like you see above, then it should be quick. We have no number limitations (e.g. “4 of 7 must be selected”) so we should be looking for something that directly violates the rules.
(A) If F and T are out then M is out and R is out and L is in. This doesn’t seem to violate anything so move on.
(B) If L is out then R is in and M is in. So L and M cannot BOTH be out of the game, we need at least one of them in.
However, you can actually answer this without any testing if you realized that at least one of L/R is in. Since R triggers M, which also which triggers T…
So at least L is in… or if not then R, M, and T are in, as well as ~F and ~V (which triggers S in).
I think the key to these games is just lining up the rules neatly and accurately so you can see make quick inferences. The rest is up to your brain.
 SilverE2
 Posts: 931
 Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:04 pm
Re: PT 58, S3 Game 2 & 4
niederbomb wrote:Both are 100% conditional games. I don't have the LG Bible with me at the moment, so I'm not sure what the proper name is. Maybe "InOut"?
I think the Firs, Yews, and Spruces game from Superprep B that I just did is pretty similar to both of these.
I don't know how to draw a diagram for these. I just do the conditional chains (If R>T, M), then make deductions to combine them. Then I just use and modify these chains to attack the questions.
It's all good and well until you get to a question like #12 (PT 58, S3, Game 2): "Which...pair...is such....at least one....volunteers?" I had to try out almost every answer choice to find the right one.
The Manhattan LSAT logic chains are very, very, very unhelpful. I would never trust myself to draw lines like that under test day pressures, and I can't draw straight lines anyway.
I wonder if there's a quicker way to solve these that doesn't involve drawing straight lines?
Have you actually tried the Manhattan system for more than just one logic game before deciding it wasn't for you? I took this preptest yesterday, and I dominated both of these games using the logic chain. in less than 7 minutes for the second one and about 10 minutes for the fourth.
A tip for neatness is to keep the two columns a bit farther apart and the letters on the far side of each column, so the lines crossing in the middle don't create a crazy jumble.

 Posts: 1190
 Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:57 pm
Re: PT 58, S3 Game 2 & 4
niederbomb wrote:Both are 100% conditional games. I don't have the LG Bible with me at the moment, so I'm not sure what the
It's all good and well until you get to a question like #12 (PT 58, S3, Game 2): "Which...pair...is such....at least one....volunteers?" I had to try out almost every answer choice to find the right one.
You do need to draw the chains for all the possible question types. You need to be able to combine the necessary factors. But once you've used the chain to figure out that L>M and M >P means /P >/L, the "one or the other or both" questions are still tricky.
It's important to realize that what those words, "It is necessary to have one or the other or both" mean, is essentially that you can't have a group without them.
What works for me is writing out all of the elements J,K,L,M,N,O,P. Then, for each answer choice, I cover those with finger or pencil, and figure out if the group works. If the answer choice is J and K, then you cover those, and try to see if you can make a viable group from the L,M,N,O,P. Then it becomes a quick process of applying the rules checklist, like the first question in most games.
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