Short term memory and concentration on games

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Short term memory and concentration on games

Postby niederbomb » Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:43 am

Example: PT 36, game 3: Got all the right deductions. But there are SO many rules. This game took 12 minutes because I had to reread the rules for every question.

If I don't reread the rules (and answer choices) constantly, I forget them, especially if there are a lot of them. But constantly rereading the rules is time consuming.

What are some strategies to use to "fix the rules in your mind" as the LGB says?

I have no problem remembering details from RC passages, so whatever this is, it's pretty specific to logic games.

tourdeforcex
Posts: 428
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:19 pm

Re: Short term memory and concentration on games

Postby tourdeforcex » Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:54 am

don't have PT 36 in front of me but i'll answer your general question

to fix rules in mind. i'd build out hypotheticals. and learn to do this really fast. i think it's the only way to really get it set. find the first question that asks "if H comes in 3, what must be true?" build it, put H in 3, start sticking random variables in random places to see what works. once you build 3 hypos for random questions the rules should be somewhat set. of course you'll be referencing the rules but as you go through the game your understanding of the rules should be transferred over.

Nonok
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:24 pm

Re: Short term memory and concentration on games

Postby Nonok » Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:55 am

That's what your diagram is there for. It's supposed to be a more efficient way to refresh your memory on the rules than rereading the actual text.

This game is one of the hardest games and is on the '10 Hardest LSAT Logic Games List.'

I took PT 36 a couple weeks ago and ended up missing 2 questions on LG. None on this game though, but it probably hurt me because I think I took 10 minutes or so on this game and rushed the last if I remember correctly.

All of the questions on the game except the first provide new rules specific to that question. Diagram the global rules quickly (1-2 mins) and spend the rest of the time applying those diagrams to the local rules of each question.

It might be beneficial to skip the first question too. By using the hypos from the other questions you probably can answer question 14 faster. I didn't follow this advice and ended up spending a ton of time on question 14 by making hypos for each answer choice.

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Short term memory and concentration on games

Postby niederbomb » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Nonok wrote:That's what your diagram is there for. It's supposed to be a more efficient way to refresh your memory on the rules than rereading the actual text.

This game is one of the hardest games and is on the '10 Hardest LSAT Logic Games List.'

I took PT 36 a couple weeks ago and ended up missing 2 questions on LG. None on this game though, but it probably hurt me because I think I took 10 minutes or so on this game and rushed the last if I remember correctly.

All of the questions on the game except the first provide new rules specific to that question. Diagram the global rules quickly (1-2 mins) and spend the rest of the time applying those diagrams to the local rules of each question.

It might be beneficial to skip the first question too. By using the hypos from the other questions you probably can answer question 14 faster. I didn't follow this advice and ended up spending a ton of time on question 14 by making hypos for each answer choice.


Thanks for the advice. I reread the diagram, not the original rules, by the way.

Maybe I should just skip around more, focus on finishing the three easiest games, and then knocking out 2 or 3 on the hardest game. 19 or better pretty much guarantees a 170, so if only I can get that, I should be fine.

I'll try the suggestion of skipping around within games.

Is it better to skip a hard game outright, or is it better to diagram it first, then come back to it with fresh eyes after knocking out the remaining easy game (assuming the hard game is 3)?

The hardest game usually seems to be 3, although less often (Interns) it's 4.

User avatar
JazzOne
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 am

Re: Short term memory and concentration on games

Postby JazzOne » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:18 pm

niederbomb wrote:
Nonok wrote:That's what your diagram is there for. It's supposed to be a more efficient way to refresh your memory on the rules than rereading the actual text.

This game is one of the hardest games and is on the '10 Hardest LSAT Logic Games List.'

I took PT 36 a couple weeks ago and ended up missing 2 questions on LG. None on this game though, but it probably hurt me because I think I took 10 minutes or so on this game and rushed the last if I remember correctly.

All of the questions on the game except the first provide new rules specific to that question. Diagram the global rules quickly (1-2 mins) and spend the rest of the time applying those diagrams to the local rules of each question.

It might be beneficial to skip the first question too. By using the hypos from the other questions you probably can answer question 14 faster. I didn't follow this advice and ended up spending a ton of time on question 14 by making hypos for each answer choice.


Thanks for the advice. I reread the diagram, not the original rules, by the way.

Maybe I should just skip around more, focus on finishing the three easiest games, and then knocking out 2 or 3 on the hardest game. 19 or better pretty much guarantees a 170, so if only I can get that, I should be fine.

I'll try the suggestion of skipping around within games.

Is it better to skip a hard game outright, or is it better to diagram it first, then come back to it with fresh eyes after knocking out the remaining easy game (assuming the hard game is 3)?

The hardest game usually seems to be 3, although less often (Interns) it's 4.

The logic games are easily beatable. You just need more practice. Drill every game several times (untimed after you've seen the game). When you re-do the game, be proactive about fixing the mistakes you made the first time or noting the deductions you failed to see the first time. Or perhaps spend more time organizing your symbols of the rules so they are easier to scan and interpret.

If you drill enough games, you're speed will increase. This is the only section that nearly everyone can perfect with practice.

Edit: I read the other post most carefully now. Yes, you should skip around. Do the easiest games first. Within each game, so the specific questions before the general questions so you can use your work on the specific questions to eliminate answers in the general questions.

Nonok
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:24 pm

Re: Short term memory and concentration on games

Postby Nonok » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:26 pm

Sure, you can skip games. Its useful when you see a game that you know will take too long. Just make the decision quickly and don't fumble around on a question for a couple minutes and then decide to skip that game.

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Short term memory and concentration on games

Postby niederbomb » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:51 pm

JazzOne wrote:
niederbomb wrote:
Nonok wrote:That's what your diagram is there for. It's supposed to be a more efficient way to refresh your memory on the rules than rereading the actual text.

This game is one of the hardest games and is on the '10 Hardest LSAT Logic Games List.'

I took PT 36 a couple weeks ago and ended up missing 2 questions on LG. None on this game though, but it probably hurt me because I think I took 10 minutes or so on this game and rushed the last if I remember correctly.

All of the questions on the game except the first provide new rules specific to that question. Diagram the global rules quickly (1-2 mins) and spend the rest of the time applying those diagrams to the local rules of each question.

It might be beneficial to skip the first question too. By using the hypos from the other questions you probably can answer question 14 faster. I didn't follow this advice and ended up spending a ton of time on question 14 by making hypos for each answer choice.


Thanks for the advice. I reread the diagram, not the original rules, by the way.

Maybe I should just skip around more, focus on finishing the three easiest games, and then knocking out 2 or 3 on the hardest game. 19 or better pretty much guarantees a 170, so if only I can get that, I should be fine.

I'll try the suggestion of skipping around within games.

Is it better to skip a hard game outright, or is it better to diagram it first, then come back to it with fresh eyes after knocking out the remaining easy game (assuming the hard game is 3)?

The hardest game usually seems to be 3, although less often (Interns) it's 4.

The logic games are easily beatable. You just need more practice. Drill every game several times (untimed after you've seen the game). When you re-do the game, be proactive about fixing the mistakes you made the first time or noting the deductions you failed to see the first time. Or perhaps spend more time organizing your symbols of the rules so they are easier to scan and interpret.

If you drill enough games, you're speed will increase. This is the only section that nearly everyone can perfect with practice.

Edit: I read the other post most carefully now. Yes, you should skip around. Do the easiest games first. Within each game, so the specific questions before the general questions so you can use your work on the specific questions to eliminate answers in the general questions.


They may be easily beatable for some people. However, at this point, I am a hell of a lot closer to getting a perfect LR score than I am to getting perfect LG. So everyone is clearly different.

I have done all the games ever released by LSAT at least once. In fact, I've done the ones in the 40's and 50's at least twice, some of them more.

I've definitely gotten better (I started out with 4/23), but I still frequently get 17's and 18's, especially in the 30's.

Any other tips, besides skipping around? The LSAT is in 9 days, and I typically need at least an 18 on LG to get to 170.

User avatar
JazzOne
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 am

Re: Short term memory and concentration on games

Postby JazzOne » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:28 am

niederbomb wrote:They may be easily beatable for some people. However, at this point, I am a hell of a lot closer to getting a perfect LR score than I am to getting perfect LG. So everyone is clearly different.

I have done all the games ever released by LSAT at least once. In fact, I've done the ones in the 40's and 50's at least twice, some of them more.

I've definitely gotten better (I started out with 4/23), but I still frequently get 17's and 18's, especially in the 30's.

Any other tips, besides skipping around? The LSAT is in 9 days, and I typically need at least an 18 on LG to get to 170.

I think you are in the perfect position. You should basically quit working on LR and RC and focus on AR for the next 9 days. LR can be a bit random, and even if you're good at it, you'll one once in a while. You can be perfect on games with practice. When I say that games are easily beatable, I don't mean that the process is easy. I mean that the process is easily ascertainable. It's just all about drilling.

When I started teaching LSAT, I could do the games. But after I taught the course half a dozen times or so, I was so good at them that I never even worried about missing a question on games after that. I was a bit surprised at how much I continued to improve even after I had seen every game 2 or 3 times. Drill incessantly, and you will get better, especially if you drill with the kind of proactive approach I have in mind.

You can pick up four or five more questions guaranteed if you focus on this. That's an enviable position because the route to improvement is so much more obscure for LR and especially RC. A few more tips: Find the games that really gave you trouble, and crack those first. I mean, don't repeat a simple order game over and over. That's kind of silly. But take the games that frustrated you, and pick them apart with no time limit. Explore the entire game and how it works. You'll learn to think more visually. You'll learn to recognize similar deductions quicker.

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Short term memory and concentration on games

Postby niederbomb » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:10 am

JazzOne wrote:
niederbomb wrote:They may be easily beatable for some people. However, at this point, I am a hell of a lot closer to getting a perfect LR score than I am to getting perfect LG. So everyone is clearly different.

I have done all the games ever released by LSAT at least once. In fact, I've done the ones in the 40's and 50's at least twice, some of them more.

I've definitely gotten better (I started out with 4/23), but I still frequently get 17's and 18's, especially in the 30's.

Any other tips, besides skipping around? The LSAT is in 9 days, and I typically need at least an 18 on LG to get to 170.

I think you are in the perfect position. You should basically quit working on LR and RC and focus on AR for the next 9 days. LR can be a bit random, and even if you're good at it, you'll one once in a while. You can be perfect on games with practice. When I say that games are easily beatable, I don't mean that the process is easy. I mean that the process is easily ascertainable. It's just all about drilling.

When I started teaching LSAT, I could do the games. But after I taught the course half a dozen times or so, I was so good at them that I never even worried about missing a question on games after that. I was a bit surprised at how much I continued to improve even after I had seen every game 2 or 3 times. Drill incessantly, and you will get better, especially if you drill with the kind of proactive approach I have in mind.

You can pick up four or five more questions guaranteed if you focus on this. That's an enviable position because the route to improvement is so much more obscure for LR and especially RC. A few more tips: Find the games that really gave you trouble, and crack those first. I mean, don't repeat a simple order game over and over. That's kind of silly. But take the games that frustrated you, and pick them apart with no time limit. Explore the entire game and how it works. You'll learn to think more visually. You'll learn to recognize similar deductions quicker.


I've done what you suggested. I printed out 3 copies of the game sections from PT 33-36, Superprep B and C, and 56-60.

One thing I'm finding is that I typically do a lot better on grouping games than on linear games. Games that require a few clever inferences like "In-Out," Mulch, and Dinos are much easier than time-consuming games that require drawing complicated diagrams accurately and quickly.

I'm not a visual person, I'm an auditory learner, and my procedural memory and spatial skills are shit, at best. That's why I'm going to law school and not engineering school anything that requires following procedures in a lab. :lol:

I just did PT 60 LG, took 13 minutes on the first game, 8 minutes on game 2, and 7 minutes on Mulch. Then, I answered 4 question on Interns and got all of them wrong for a total of 17/23.

I don't think my difficulties with games are typical, and I feel like I'm doing all the right things and still coming up short. What's the best strategy for dealing with this?




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jagerbom79, Scherbatsky, SunDevil14, Vino.Veritas and 7 guests